17 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Perhaps you might want to address the point of my argument that it was pointless and that he was in a vulnerable situation rather than engage in hyperbole and distortions to bolster your own side? The similarities are that Viney is an experienced player attacking a second year player in an untoward manner. The extent of damage between the two differs, but in the first (which was unforgivable), the game was still hot. What was to be achieved by this?

For the record, I'd say it's a fine at best, and two weeks at absolute worst. I think it will probably land in the middle somewhere.

Try again. this is Collins 5th year on an AFL list

If the incident was half as bad as some here are making out, why didn't the umpire - who was all of about 3 meters away - do something about it? No free kick, just told them to stop wrestling. Given Collins has around 10cms and 15kg on Viney, if it was that bad he would have tried to push him off, not held onto him the whole time - look at where Collins grabbed Viney's jumper, which actually locks Viney's arm into position, his only other option would be to fall flat on top of him. 

1 hour ago, Grimes Times said:

 

 

The way people can judge force off video footage amazes me. A real skill.

Saying prolonged pressure is not judging force just saying what is happening. Unless you there there was no pressure applied at all?

6 hours ago, chook fowler said:

i don't think Jack will be offered a MENSA membership any time soon

It’s not all it’s cracked up to be, too many nerds hanging around. 

Edited August 3, 20214 yr by Ethan Trembley

4 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

The third one is the key. When you have someone in a defenseless position, i.e. Wallis on Green, you leave them alone. Especially when the entire thing was over bar the shouting.

Stretching it here. Green was being held and was then whacked, Collins was the one grabbing Viney and initiating the scuffle here. There was also no strike. It's not an accurate comparison.

 

1 hour ago, ProperDee said:

At least the thread gave me a laugh. Somebody said James Harmes was intimidating! Hahahahaha!  
 

He is absolutely desperate for that to be true though.

About as intimidating as Donkey from Shrek

2 minutes ago, DubDee said:

Saying prolonged pressure is not judging force just saying what is happening. Unless you there there was no pressure applied at all?

All I know is If I had prolonged pressure applied to my neck region at any force id let go of the guy I was pulling towards myself and try and get his elbow of my neck. 

 

4 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

This is sarcasm yes? Surely... References cited below...

No sarcasm at all.

What I clearly said was facetious. You may answer that you were as well, and you would be correct. However, you made implications that I believed an outsourced punishment was due, and that is not nor never was the case.

That is where you were using hyperbole and distortions in tandem, as opposed to a simple tongue in cheek reply to what I was saying.

2 minutes ago, Grimes Times said:

All I know is If I had prolonged pressure applied to my neck region at any force id let go of the guy I was pulling towards myself and try and get his elbow of my neck. 

Now you know exactly what the guy on the ground was doing just from looking at the tape.  Quite a skill!

Just now, Colin B. Flaubert said:

No sarcasm at all.

What I clearly said was facetious. You may answer that you were as well, and you would be correct. However, you made implications that I believed an outsourced punishment was due, and that is not nor never was the case.

That is where you were using hyperbole and distortions in tandem, as opposed to a simple tongue in cheek reply to what I was saying.

But good sir, what you have missed here is that I was highlighting your post as an example of the trend in posts about the subject. It was used as a reference point that I then build upon with facetiousness but it was a general observation with your post as a step in the process, rather than a direct retort addressing your post in a point by point manner.

Your defence of "but my hyperbole was facetious and yours wasn't!" is pretty flimsy old chap.

Just now, DubDee said:

Now you know exactly what the guy on the ground was doing just from looking at the tape.  Quite a skill!

I cant see myself on any tape, I was referring to what I would do.

I need a thesaurus to keep up the Colin / Nev back and forth. 

anyone knows who’s winning? 

Just now, Lord Nev said:

But good sir, what you have missed here is that I was highlighting your post as an example of the trend in posts about the subject. It was used as a reference point that I then build upon with facetiousness but it was a general observation with your post as a step in the process, rather than a direct retort addressing your post in a point by point manner.

Your defence of "but my hyperbole was facetious and yours wasn't!" is pretty flimsy old chap.

Re-read what I said.

I was explicit in the first line of my reply that we were both being facetious. I am saying that you are implying that I hold opinions that I (and in fact others) don't with your 'give him the electric chair' line. That is what they call in the debating business 'strawmanning'. I clearly think that a moderate penalty is in order, and you have distorted that. On the other hand, my facetious comment was designed to emphasize a point about the pointlessness of what Viney was doing.

Furthermore, you are engaging in a slippery slope logical fallacy by stating that one move in a negative direction can only mean an inevitable move in an extreme direction without any evidence to confirm this. 

Chap.

 

Viney has plead guilty.

Now it's just about the punishment...

5 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Re-read what I said.

I was explicit in the first line of my reply that we were both being facetious. I am saying that you are implying that I hold opinions that I (and in fact others) don't with your 'give him the electric chair' line. That is what they call in the debating business 'strawmanning'. I clearly think that a moderate penalty is in order, and you have distorted that. On the other hand, my facetious comment was designed to emphasize a point about the pointlessness of what Viney was doing.

Furthermore, you are engaging in a slippery slope logical fallacy by stating that one move in a negative direction can only mean an inevitable move in an extreme direction without any evidence to confirm this. 

Chap.

Geez no wonder you get so upset about a little wrestling... Big issues hey

14 minutes ago, DubDee said:

I need a thesaurus to keep up the Colin / Nev back and forth. 

anyone knows who’s winning? 

Nev by a nose.

Just now, Lord Nev said:

Geez no wonder you get so upset about a little wrestling... Big issues hey

As an aside, how did Jack end up pleading? Surely he and the club would have put up a fight had there been nothing to answer for?

 

Sam Collins did not require any treatment at the time or ongoing as a result of the incident. He won't miss any training or matches as a result.

What does that say about the force???

16 minutes ago, DubDee said:

I need a thesaurus to keep up the Colin / Nev back and forth. 

anyone knows who’s winning? 

 

1 minute ago, Nasher said:

Nev by a nose.

Nil all draw, just like every internet argument ever...

1 minute ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

As an aside, how did Jack end up pleading? Surely he and the club would have put up a fight had there been nothing to answer for?

Nowhere did I say "nothing to answer for". My point was how overblown this was getting with every post.

Let's move on hey mate?

 

12 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Viney has plead guilty.

Now it's just about the punishment...

That indicates a deal.

I can see one week coming .

 

35 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

If the incident was half as bad as some here are making out, why didn't the umpire - who was all of about 3 meters away - do something about it? No free kick, just told them to stop wrestling. Given Collins has around 10cms and 15kg on Viney, if it was that bad he would have tried to push him off, not held onto him the whole time - look at where Collins grabbed Viney's jumper, which actually locks Viney's arm into position, his only other option would be to fall flat on top of him. 

...and did it occur to anybody that Collins could bench press twice Viney's weight... so if he wanted him gone all he had to do was push him off?

Edited August 3, 20214 yr by CYB

1 hour ago, Grimes Times said:

 

 

The way people can judge force off video footage amazes me. A real skill.

I think the fact that the victim was pinned down and unable to get up, is pretty indicative of the amount of force applied. There are absolutely no excuses that can be invented for Viney’s reprehensible act. Minimum of 2 weeks if he’s lucky.