17 minutes ago, sue said:

I think you’ll find you were the first to mention hugs. And why are premiership coaches exempt from your anti hugging policy?

No to the first comment.  

14 minutes ago, kev martin said:

Yes it can, but is it outlawed, or just not recommended.  

ask Christian porter.

1 hour ago, Half forward flank said:

You do not think players should fear getting dropped, wow.

I think he is saying we should have a culture were a dropped player is not disrespected when dropped.

With openness, compassion and communication the player will understand why and what they have to do for re-selection and minimise the impact of the emotion, fear.

Fear will breed, anger and sadness and possibly a lifetime of being messed up.

 

Edited March 12, 20214 yr by kev martin

2 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

ask Christian porter.

So not recommended, especially if you have ulterior motives.

 

48 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

No argument with me Kev on your values.   Everyone views the message differently but for mine he is saying anything you do in a day must start with a simple action. he could as easily have said, having a shower.  You build from one action and on to the next. He could have said help one person today and then soon you will have helped 100 people. It is a bit similiar to Mao talking about the long march. He said it  must start with a single step. I ignored the military, conformity tone of his talk. 

It starts with a hug! :P

As long as they are banding together and ultra committed for the one cause, i would hope they as a  bunch of individuals all have the freedom to express themselves freely. They only need to represent the jumper with pride.  The system will obviously require discipline and trust whatever values they choose to adhere to as a club.

I'd be happy with two steps forward, one step back. Keep it simple, just keep forging forward and getting better as individuals but more importantly as a team.

1 minute ago, kev martin said:

I think he is saying we should have a culture were a dropped player is not disrespected when dropped.

With openness, compassion and communication the player will understand why and what they have to do for re-selection and minimise the impact fear.

Fear will breed, anger and sadness and possibly a lifetime of being messed up.

 

The Melbourne Doves.   All white guernsey and cheery theme song.  I am done on this.

I haven't participated in this thread because I don't care what Mark Maclure thinks!

11 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

We don't like being yelled

Absolutely, though some do thrive from it.

We need individualised approach to get the best from each other

11 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

create behavioural change. 

11 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

yelled at his son to 'pi$$ off' (who is 7 it turns out)... poor young kid... operating in a space of fear

Yea poor kid. The path of least resistance. 

McClure is a Fat D1ckhead,he didn't say a word when we smashed the Tigers!!!

 

We had 9 players out against the Dogs,Take out the Bont,McCrae,Libba,Dunkley and 4 others from their best 22 and let's see where both teams are.

Rohan Connolly also called us mentally soft and predicted, alongside Finey, a 13 or 14th finish. Can't say I blame the lack of trust. Although that far down triggered some blood boil!

Comparatively putting EFC above us and StKilda in 3rd (Finey) was laughable biased of them. This was on Footyology podcast, which i think is one of the best shows out there.

Edited March 12, 20214 yr by John Demonic

15 minutes ago, John Demonic said:

Rohan Connolly also called us mentally soft and predicted, alongside Finey, a 13 or 14th finish. Can't say I blame the lack of trust. Although that far down triggered some blood boil!

Comparatively putting EFC above us and StKilda in 3rd (Finey) was laughable biased of them. This was on Footyology podcast, which i think is one of the best shows out there.

Nobody trusts the Club, why should they?

The only way to change anything is to set high standards, and win games at Home and Away. 
We have been untrustworthy as a club the entire time i have followed The MFC

40 minutes ago, John Demonic said:

Rohan Connolly also called us mentally soft and predicted, alongside Finey, a 13 or 14th finish. Can't say I blame the lack of trust. Although that far down triggered some blood boil!

Comparatively putting EFC above us and StKilda in 3rd (Finey) was laughable biased of them. This was on Footyology podcast, which i think is one of the best shows out there.

footyology is a fun listen but my god those two let their bias show

54 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Nobody trusts the Club, why should they?

The only way to change anything is to set high standards, and win games at Home and Away. 
We have been untrustworthy as a club the entire time i have followed The MFC

Only a few things to trust in my time. Tassies kickouts to the centre. Robbie on the wing  Gary Hardeman,  and a few others. One more on Maclure.  Wells was a genuine star for us. Went to Maclures Blues to win a flag and was just a contributor for them. never obtained a high status on or off the field with them. it is no  criticism of Wellsy. He was a Dees champion but not amongst that Carlton team.

44 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Only a few things to trust in my time. Tassies kickouts to the centre. Robbie on the wing  Gary Hardeman,  and a few others. One more on Maclure.  Wells was a genuine star for us. Went to Maclures Blues to win a flag and was just a contributor for them. never obtained a high status on or off the field with them. it is no  criticism of Wellsy. He was a Dees champion but not amongst that Carlton team.

Agree with you Mate. 
1971-72 we had some seriously good players who all played for Victoria

But we still didn’t make Finals

5 hours ago, kev martin said:

Generational and societal changes causes a change in the optimum management of people. 

Methods are not repeatable, if they were, wouldn't a team that mastered it be always at the top.

It all flows and ebbs with the times.

Hoping MFC can find that magic system. 

I doubt that it is based on obedience any more, but I could be wrong.

If organisations still get the best for that institution by obedience then it is at the expense of the individuals freedom, mental health and diversification.

In an extreme sense, the ideology becomes totalitarianism versus social democratic values.

Also hoping, that the flags get shared around to all the clubs.

 

I think people conflate 'culture' with things like people management, off field behaviour and the like when it's not really what it means. You've read into the story by Jordan Lewis that culture is about 'obedience' and 'generational management', but to me it's more an indicator of how little things like the state of the dressing room can be an indicator of the overall attitude of the group.

To me, it shows an attention to detail, a care for others and a sense of togetherness. Those are good indicators of a selfless culture in my opinion.

Culture is in no way linked to any sense of 'totalitarianism' or 'individual freedom'.

A group having a collective mindset does not mean that group can't have individual personalities and individual management styles.

24 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

 

Thanks for the reply.

I interpreted the state of the dressing room as a metaphor for order and control. In comparison to flexibility and chaos, which is more reflective of the real world.

If I am too strictly managed then my cultural input cannot impact the collective. I start feeling unrecognised, invisible,  a number in the system.

I am concerned about autocratic forms of management that require obedience and are not suitable to the modern world. I hope our institutions never move that way, as it will, disconnect us from any emotional or cultural aspects of the self.

39 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

A group having a collective mindset does not mean that group can't have individual personalities and individual management styles.

Well put.

 

6 minutes ago, kev martin said:

Thanks for the reply.

I interpreted the state of the dressing room as a metaphor for order and control. In comparison to flexibility and chaos, which is more reflective of the real world.

If I am too strictly managed then my cultural input cannot impact the collective. I start feeling unrecognised, invisible,  a number in the system.

I am concerned about autocratic forms of management that require obedience and are not suitable to the modern world. I hope our institutions never move that way, as it will, disconnect us from any emotional or cultural aspects of the self.

Well put.

Definitely hear what you're saying mate, and I'm the same in that regard. I think that kind of autocratic way of doing things went out of AFL clubs during the colorful 80s, or at least that's when it began. Personally, I think having people like Matt Whelan and Mark Williams involved (and previously people like McCartney, Cross etc) shows we try and take a broad view of player management and the different approaches needed. But again, to me I see player management as a separate thing from culture.

Individuals with a collective mindset and selfless attitude towards achieving their goals is how I would define culture.

On 3/11/2021 at 6:05 AM, Pates said:

So just for fun I thought I'd watch the Hawthorn final again because it's great fun to watch but I also wanted to see how we played and see how "soft" we were back then.

I tell ya what, we were anything but soft, and this is only a couple of years ago with MANY of the key players that night still playing. When we tackled, we tackled HARD. We went at EVERY contest with courage and ferocity. We may not have been clean but when we weren't the players heads didn't slump they got on with it and went for the second effort (great example of that was in the middle Weids spilled a mark and followed up with a big tackle). 

Another really interesting thing about it was Spargo was very important, his tackles stuck really well, and he worked hard to get into dangerous positions. I wouldn't say our forward line was functioning incredible that night but we spread well to create space and goals either over the back or within 25-30m of goal, there was a clear connection of where the forward were expecting the kicks were going to be. We got some luck with the Hawks being more with their efficiency going forward whether that was kicks for goal or the final kick inside 50 but we had periods where we did the same.

The bottom line is that effort is rewarded, and I honestly feel like the effort hasn't been there in the last 12-18 months (on the field). Get that back and we play finals.

Where did you get the replay from Pates?

On 3/11/2021 at 1:45 PM, praha said:

Mate of mine is a Richmond supporter. He was telling me that even after they won the flag in 2017, he and Tigers supporters in general would still eat their own and go to games not quite knowing which Richmond would turn up. Even when they were 40 points up, they always had a "feeling" they would choke and lose. When they lost to Collingwood in the 2018 Prelim, even after two amazing seasons the supporter group was "same old Richmond".

He said it wasn't until they won the second flag in 2019 that he now goes into every game with a sense of excitement, knowing which side will turn up, and knowing they'll probably win. He also said it still feels weird to feel like that after 30ish years of utter crap. But it feels good. Richmond supporters have "turned the corner" and the club is no dominant.

I told him that it's a feeling I've never had except for maybe patches in the Daniher era; whenever someone asks me how Melbourne will go, my response is always "I have absolutely no idea". 

Maclure's comments at face value may be simplistic but he makes a point: culture helps establishes an identity. If you don't know or can't even predict an outcome, then the identity is lacking. We still don't know what this club or team really stands for. We merely "exist".

I'm optimistic for the season but anyone that can't acknowledge how lacking we are in the cultural department is delusional. Culture isn't immediately identifiable nor easily defined or articulated. But when it exists and when it's strong, you just know it's there. With Melbourne it's always just a shrug of the shoulder.

We have a long way to go to turning the corner like Richmond.

We are miles off it IMHO.

While there's a few exceptions.  May & Clarry in particular.  To a somewhat lessor degree Big Maxy, very good player but a little too nonchalant for mine.

There are still too many pretenders and Hollywood types who look the goods when all is going well but turn up their toes too easily or just go missing completely when the chips are down.  That's been the case at the Demons for decades, bar the period mentioned previously between 87 and 94.

The never-say-die ferocity, serious hard edged 1%er footy, elite skills to finish off the good work and a selfless culture on the field continue to elude the Demons 56 years on.

We have been a destination club for the near retiring and NQR for as long as i can remember and the team often feels a little like a shadowy poor cousin image of the St Kilda "play hard but party up afterwards / couldn't give a FF" era.  At least they had a sprinkling of some genuine stars throughout that period to enjoy however, such as Buckets, Plugger, Riewoldt, Milne and Harvey.

When this changes it will be apparent for all to see i reckon.

P.S.  VERY strong leadership combined with a genuine champion or two will be needed before this club turns the corner IMHO.  Does this exist in the current list?  Not really sure at this point.  With the MFC it always feels like we're a bridge too far.

Edited March 14, 20214 yr by Rusty Nails

On 3/12/2021 at 7:36 PM, whatwhat say what said:

footyology is a fun listen but my god those two let their bias show

Whose Finey???