5 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

by the way 1990 was the only time since 1964 we have won 15 games in a H&A season (we won 16) - (actually it was the only time since 1958).

Every other club (except GC) has done it since 1999.

Last time won 15 games in a season

Adelaide - 2017

Brisbane - 2019

Carlton - 2000

Collingwood - 2019

Essendon - 2001

Fremantle - 2015

Geelong - 2019

GWS - 2016

Hawthorn - 2016

North Melbourne - 1999

Port - 2004

Richmond - 2019

St.Kilda - 2009

Sydney - 2016

West Coast - 2018

Bulldogs - 2016

 

How depressing of a stat. 

All this talk about building a team meant for finals and going deep into finals comes across as mildly delusional if you could only once in 60 years win 2/3 of your h & a games in a single season.  Egad. 

To add to what Lewis was getting at...

Youtube  Inspirational speeches   If you want to change the worrld.  Start off by making your bed. William Mc Ravey 

Edited March 11, 20214 yr by Half forward flank
add

On 3/10/2021 at 3:09 PM, Half forward flank said:

No, I corrected myself.  You did not look.  

Yes but what a miserable begrudging acknowledgement!  Only human !! 
It does not Replace your original comment about hugs at this time  of the year. The reality is a hug is a human emotion different for each person snd whether it's pre season or GF day it is no less credible.

But as usual you put pen to paper and don't consider you have erred. Dees need a bit more team bonding in their culture and an occasional emotion is not out of place at any time of the day or season!

18 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Being passionate about winning isn't the issue. If poor performances occur as a one-off you can excuse it but when it's a repeated pattern of behaviour (and I'm not talking about the practice match) then there is an issue.

Take the well told story of Ablett Jnr - thought he was doing everything he needed to do to be the best he could be. Was given some home truths by his peers who told him he wasn't doing enough, pushing himself enough, preparing well enough - took it on board and became the best player in the comp. Not everyone will be the best in the comp but everyone needs to push themselves to be the best they can be and the team as a whole needs to work to being the best team (ie working together as a group and working for each other). I don't see that in our team, the 1%ers etc If they did that there's no reason they couldn't be consistent top 4 finishers and from there who knows? As it is they can't even make finals except for one season. Finals should be a given, not the goal.

Exactly.

2 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

To add to what Lewis was getting at...

Youtube  Inspirational speeches   If you want to change the worrld.  Start off by making your bed. William Mc Ravey 

You sure that is what he was getting at.

I hear it more as, in an dormitory everyone should make their beds in the same way as each other, using the same bedding and personal objects. Then we know we are on the same page, working to the same goals.

I want individualism and self-expression not a boot camp environment. 

Male dominated environments really want conformity, then the patriarch can feel in control, powerful and it sets a cover for any shady dealings (keeping up appearances). 

Bohemian style is really not one associated with getting the job done. However it does bring caring, sharing, genuine relationships and authenticity. Though, it has a sense of being out of control.

Within AFL clubs are all the social problems of the wider world. I would prefer the self expression over the oppression model of make your bed, in order to have more stable mental health and genuine relationships. 

We no longer have a "letting off steam" in an alcohol fuelled night. Bonding over that drug causes too many problems, both personally and societal. Many don't inebriate themselves or are actively discouraged. The authentic needs to be always present, since those times of dis-inhibited behaviour when the players bonded no longer exist within the whole group.

It is groups within groups and diversification that is making it difficult for all matter to each other. Genuineness and authenticity breaks down those walls. Authoritarianism hides the wall. 

 Be seen as yourself, for the sake of your mental health, don't hide behind the dogma and restrictions of institutions. 

They will chew you up and spit you out if not one of the inner circle.

Make my bed! I hope my sleep is as comfortable as possible, which has nothing to do with whether my bed is made. A made bed is for keeping up appearances. 

If you want to change the world for something positive then first care and support yourself, then help the outside parts with the care and support you showed yourself.

In a diverse world represented within an AFL team, cultures are clashing. Managing players and relationships takes more than getting everyone to make their bed the same way. 

The commentators are living in the past. The world and AFL environments are changed.

The best managers are those that can adapt and improvise to a constantly and quickly changing society or the microcosm called an AFL team.

There are no templates, just evolution. Fact!

Sorry, it really is an opinion,  not a fact. Just trying for some humour after my weird spiel.

 

 

Edited March 11, 20214 yr by kev martin

46 minutes ago, kev martin said:

You sure that is what he was getting at.

I hear it more as, in an dormitory everyone should make their beds in the same way as each other, using the same bedding and personal objects. Then we know we are on the same page, working to the same goals.

I want individualism and self-expression not a boot camp environment. 

Male dominated environments really want conformity, then the patriarch can feel in control, powerful and it sets a cover for any shady dealings (keeping up appearances). 

Bohemian style is really not one associated with getting the job done. However it does bring caring, sharing, genuine relationships and authenticity. Though, it has a sense of being out of control.

Within AFL clubs are all the social problems of the wider world. I would prefer the self expression over the oppression model of make your bed, in order to have more stable mental health and genuine relationships. 

We no longer have a "letting off steam" in an alcohol fuelled night. Bonding over that drug causes too many problems, both personally and societal. Many don't inebriate themselves or are actively discouraged. The authentic needs to be always present, since those times of dis-inhibited behaviour when the players bonded no longer exist within the whole group.

It is groups within groups and diversification that is making it difficult for all matter to each other. Genuineness and authenticity breaks down those walls. Authoritarianism hides the wall. 

 Be seen as yourself, for the sake of your mental health, don't hide behind the dogma and restrictions of institutions. 

They will chew you up and spit you out if not one of the inner circle.

Make my bed! I hope my sleep is as comfortable as possible, which has nothing to do with whether my bed is made. A made bed is for keeping up appearances. 

If you want to change the world for something positive then first care and support yourself, then help the outside parts with the care and support you showed yourself.

In a diverse world represented within an AFL team, cultures are clashing. Managing players and relationships takes more than getting everyone to make their bed the same way. 

The commentators are living in the past. The world and AFL environments are changed.

The best managers are those that can adapt and improvise to a constantly and quickly changing society or the microcosm called an AFL team.

There are no templates, just evolution. Fact!

Sorry, it really is an opinion,  not a fact. Just trying for some humour after my weird spiel.

 

 

Good work Kev - I agree in almost totality.

My thoughts...

You can have authenticity, empathy, and connection AND be really bloody minded and driven towards goals.

They're not mutually exclusive.

You want people working from a space of values, not from fear (fear of judgement, fear of getting dropped for not performing consistently, fear of being humiliated).

I'm camping at the moment, and my neighbour next door whilst he was setting up his 1983 pop top, yelled at his son to 'pi$$ off' (who is 7 it turns out)... poor young kid... operating in a space of fear... now some of us on this site, think that as 18-30yo, the players at the MFC also need to have some 'good, hard conversations also' - as though the club doesn't forensically examine each players output on game day or training....(like all clubs).

We don't like being yelled at, we don't like to be disrespected, and we wouldn't follow a leader who acts like that.

It wouldn't happen in any other workplace, if you're genuinely trying to create behavioural change. 

Hilariously, (my thoughts) - sport is about executing skills, in a space of chaos. It's not cognitive like an IT job, or a psychology job, or as a banker, or a baker. There is time to think and time to compose.

Sport is [censored] chaotic, at a broad and at a granular level.

Stephen Milne could be a premiership hero if it wasn't for an unlucky bounce. Mitch Morton IS! Cale isn't.

In every single passage of play, there is a cm here or there, that could conspire to change the game - it's debatable how much is skill, how much is timing, how much is luck...

When we are anxious supporters - we tend to forget that.... 

None of us were questioning Goodwin's empathic (human??) philosophy in 2018....

Happy Friday to you all... one week to go!

 

 

Edited March 11, 20214 yr by Engorged Onion

1 hour ago, Engorged Onion said:

 

We don't like being yelled at, we don't like to be disrespected, and we wouldn't follow a leader who acts like that.

It wouldn't happen in any other workplace, if you're genuinely trying to create behavioural change. 

Hilariously, (my thoughts) - sport is about executing skills, in a space of chaos. It's not cognitive like an IT job, or a psychology job, or as a banker, or a baker. There is time to think and time to compose.

Sport is [censored] chaotic, at a broad and at a granular level.

None of us were questioning Goodwin's empathic (human??) philosophy in 2018....

 

 

 

Like your post.

AFL is a job to the players and staff.  Like any job it is different from other jobs, different skills are required as you point out, outcomes can sometimes be taken out of your control as you are chasing an oval shaped ball for a living, this uncertainty is in most industries just different variables. 

It is a job and with that comes certain levels of expectations, you are expected in all jobs to execute the skills of that job at an acceptable level, you need to show the required application at you work place, adhere to certain work place standards.

The members of an AFL club are shareholders of that club.  When you have an underperforming business the shareholders need to question why.  The club makes statements to in a business sense push their stock market price higher, when those statements are followed up with the required performance they need to be questioned.

Agree with you yelling and screaming are in the past, most younger people these days put up the brick wall and you get nothing out of them.

The bottom line is we are an underperforming business that needs to lift its results.  The fear is we don't have the right staff to take the club forward.  The next 6 months will show us which direction the club is heading.  

 

11 hours ago, kev martin said:

I think, it is different strokes for different folks. 

Some need order, some need the chaos.

The environment needs to be individualised, especially in an era that is supposed to support diversification. 

The act the same, look the same, deminishes those with a different cultural/social/spiritual/psychology aspect.

Wouldn't want to be Hawks, one size fits all.

Don't stand out, or be different as you will be ridiculed.

Put your "Grey suit on", work 40 years, don't rock the boat. The joyless parody of a life less well lived.

Discipline isn't the facades of conformity and group think.

Leave that to the corporates, or the art of war with the leaders and followers. 

 I want to see joy as well as success. 

You might have noticed, I'm anti establishment with conformity as its base for success. 

Gets success for a few and the rest of the plebs get the finger.

I want the laissez-faire method of management, not that authoritarian stuff.

Coaching style, I want what ever the coach is into. Trust has to be in that position. 

They are adults, treat them like that and they should act that way.

Did I read a bit too much into "a messy locker room"  as an analogy to conformity and culture, Nev?

 

Win 4 flags...

1 hour ago, drdrake said:

 

The bottom line is we are an underperforming business that needs to lift its results.  The fear is we don't have the right staff to take the club forward.  The next 6 months will show us which direction the club is heading.  

 

Sometimes I wonder if this is true - perhaps we are where we should be...and it wouldnt matter if Goodwin was coach or not.

Bulldogs have a fantastic midfield - 2 years older on average than ours (50 games or so)...but no real recognised forward... they just scraped into the 8 last year. It's not dissimilar to us, with 50 games less average in the midfield, and no forward line to speak of (weid, brown injuries noted).

 Perhaps I'm just apathetic...and steeling myself for mediocrity in 21.

5 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Win 4 flags...

Generational and societal changes causes a change in the optimum management of people. 

Methods are not repeatable, if they were, wouldn't a team that mastered it be always at the top.

It all flows and ebbs with the times.

Hoping MFC can find that magic system. 

I doubt that it is based on obedience any more, but I could be wrong.

If organisations still get the best for that institution by obedience then it is at the expense of the individuals freedom, mental health and diversification.

In an extreme sense, the ideology becomes totalitarianism versus social democratic values.

Also hoping, that the flags get shared around to all the clubs.

 

10 hours ago, kev martin said:

You sure that is what he was getting at.

I hear it more as, in an dormitory everyone should make their beds in the same way as each other, using the same bedding and personal objects. Then we know we are on the same page, working to the same goals.

I want individualism and self-expression not a boot camp environment. 

Male dominated environments really want conformity, then the patriarch can feel in control, powerful and it sets a cover for any shady dealings (keeping up appearances). 

Bohemian style is really not one associated with getting the job done. However it does bring caring, sharing, genuine relationships and authenticity. Though, it has a sense of being out of control.

Within AFL clubs are all the social problems of the wider world. I would prefer the self expression over the oppression model of make your bed, in order to have more stable mental health and genuine relationships. 

We no longer have a "letting off steam" in an alcohol fuelled night. Bonding over that drug causes too many problems, both personally and societal. Many don't inebriate themselves or are actively discouraged. The authentic needs to be always present, since those times of dis-inhibited behaviour when the players bonded no longer exist within the whole group.

It is groups within groups and diversification that is making it difficult for all matter to each other. Genuineness and authenticity breaks down those walls. Authoritarianism hides the wall. 

 Be seen as yourself, for the sake of your mental health, don't hide behind the dogma and restrictions of institutions. 

They will chew you up and spit you out if not one of the inner circle.

Make my bed! I hope my sleep is as comfortable as possible, which has nothing to do with whether my bed is made. A made bed is for keeping up appearances. 

If you want to change the world for something positive then first care and support yourself, then help the outside parts with the care and support you showed yourself.

In a diverse world represented within an AFL team, cultures are clashing. Managing players and relationships takes more than getting everyone to make their bed the same way. 

The commentators are living in the past. The world and AFL environments are changed.

The best managers are those that can adapt and improvise to a constantly and quickly changing society or the microcosm called an AFL team.

There are no templates, just evolution. Fact!

Sorry, it really is an opinion,  not a fact. Just trying for some humour after my weird spiel.

 

 

I do not think you watched the youtube if you think it is just about conformity of making a bed.

9 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

Good work Kev - I agree in almost totality.

My thoughts...

You can have authenticity, empathy, and connection AND be really bloody minded and driven towards goals.

They're not mutually exclusive.

You want people working from a space of values, not from fear (fear of judgement, fear of getting dropped for not performing consistently, fear of being humiliated).

I'm camping at the moment, and my neighbour next door whilst he was setting up his 1983 pop top, yelled at his son to 'pi$$ off' (who is 7 it turns out)... poor young kid... operating in a space of fear... now some of us on this site, think that as 18-30yo, the players at the MFC also need to have some 'good, hard conversations also' - as though the club doesn't forensically examine each players output on game day or training....(like all clubs).

We don't like being yelled at, we don't like to be disrespected, and we wouldn't follow a leader who acts like that.

It wouldn't happen in any other workplace, if you're genuinely trying to create behavioural change. 

Hilariously, (my thoughts) - sport is about executing skills, in a space of chaos. It's not cognitive like an IT job, or a psychology job, or as a banker, or a baker. There is time to think and time to compose.

Sport is [censored] chaotic, at a broad and at a granular level.

Stephen Milne could be a premiership hero if it wasn't for an unlucky bounce. Mitch Morton IS! Cale isn't.

In every single passage of play, there is a cm here or there, that could conspire to change the game - it's debatable how much is skill, how much is timing, how much is luck...

When we are anxious supporters - we tend to forget that.... 

None of us were questioning Goodwin's empathic (human??) philosophy in 2018....

Happy Friday to you all... one week to go!

 

 

You do not think players should fear getting dropped, wow.

11 hours ago, 58er said:

Yes but what a miserable begrudging acknowledgement!  Only human !! 
It does not Replace your original comment about hugs at this time  of the year. The reality is a hug is a human emotion different for each person snd whether it's pre season or GF day it is no less credible.

But as usual you put pen to paper and don't consider you have erred. Dees need a bit more team bonding in their culture and an occasional emotion is not out of place at any time of the day or season!

i acknowleged my error. Do you want one in person?   Anyway, do you think the upgrading of players on an oval was the first time Goodwin saw Kozzie since his return from family?  This is meant to be a professional workplace, not a hug fest. Boss hugging employees in other workplaces is viewed as harassment and outlawed . I gave the benefit o the doubt nd said it was a human response but nothing to cheer about.

6 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

i acknowleged my error. Do you want one in person?   Anyway, do you think the upgrading of players on an oval was the first time Goodwin saw Kozzie since his return from family?  This is meant to be a professional workplace, not a hug fest. Boss hugging employees in other workplaces is viewed as harassment and outlawed . I gave the benefit o the doubt nd said it was a human response but nothing to cheer about.

Gosh, I hope we don't kick any goals this year then.  

15 minutes ago, sue said:

Gosh, I hope we don't kick any goals this year then.  

Boss

1 minute ago, Half forward flank said:

Boss

And who is the boss? Anyone slightly up the heirarchy. So no hugging by Gawn or leadership group after a goal is kicked.  Let's not get too joyless.

4 minutes ago, sue said:

And who is the boss? Anyone slightly up the heirarchy. So no hugging by Gawn or leadership group after a goal is kicked.  Let's not get too joyless.

Not joyless. You brought players each other hugging into the discussion.  Save the coach hugs for premiership coaches. Players dont need hugs from their coach. 

36 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

I do not think you watched the youtube if you think it is just about conformity of making a bed.

Didn't watch it. The link had a wall, "for members only."

Just going off on the quote.

Giving my two cents worth to a society stricken by the haves and have nots.

The top end want conformity, obedience and sacrifice. 

If there was better distribution of the proceeds, I would say the end justifies the means.

They run on fear and oppression. 

I would like to see the opposite occur in our institutions. 

I think it is possible to create institutional culture that is healthy for our world, as well as win. The values include, egalitarianism, care, freedom, diversity and joy, not, fear, oppression and micro control (ie, neat locker rooms).

 

4 minutes ago, kev martin said:

Didn't watch it. The link had a wall, "for members only."

Just going off on the quote.

Giving my two cents worth to a society stricken by the haves and have nots.

The top end want conformity, obedience and sacrifice. 

If there was better distribution of the proceeds, I would say the end justifies the means.

They run on fear and oppression. 

I would like to see the opposite occur in our institutions. 

I think it is possible to create institutional culture that is healthy for our world, as well as win. The values include, egalitarianism, care, freedom, diversity and joy, not, fear, oppression and micro control (ie, neat locker rooms).

 

No argument with me Kev on your values.   Everyone views the message differently but for mine he is saying anything you do in a day must start with a simple action. he could as easily have said, having a shower.  You build from one action and on to the next. He could have said help one person today and then soon you will have helped 100 people. It is a bit similiar to Mao talking about the long march. He said it  must start with a single step. I ignored the military, conformity tone of his talk. 

37 minutes ago, sue said:

Boss hugging employees in other workplaces is viewed as harassment and outlawed

We need, respect from those in power. 

Regulation only stop the good people. The manipulators will continue as they often think they are above the laws.

Hugs should be with good Intentions, consent and respectful of the power Imbalance.

Are you sure they are "outlawed"? 

10 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

You build from one action and on to the next.

A bit like buddhist mindfulness practice.

I can see how some flourish with this walk through life. However it can't be for everyone.

Does it lead to excellence? 

Self discipline, versus it will be right on the night, or don't sweat the small stuff.

[I heard he wants everyone to shower (clean their lockers) and that produced excellence.] 

Edited March 12, 20214 yr by kev martin

16 minutes ago, kev martin said:

We need, respect from those in power. 

Regulation only stop the good people. The manipulators will continue as they often think they are above the laws.

Hugs should be with good Intentions, consent and respectful of the power Imbalance.

Are you sure they are "outlawed"? 

Hugs lead to claims of sexual sexual harassment. 

51 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Not joyless. You brought players each other hugging into the discussion.  Save the coach hugs for premiership coaches. Players dont need hugs from their coach. 

I think you’ll find you were the first to mention hugs. And why are premiership coaches exempt from your anti hugging policy?

21 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Hugs lead to claims of sexual sexual harassment. 

Yes it can, but is it outlawed, or just not recommended.  

If we can get to round 15 with 8 wins and a fully fit best 16 players we’re every chance to go deep into September. We have plenty of talent and by then the coaches should of worked out the plan for winning. It’s only injuries to our best that will kill us this year