Game plans, tactics and all that jazz

[jnrmac 19,507]

2 hours ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

If you watched closely last Friday against Carlton we were fine tuning our mid zone press, Carlton could not get through.

That was my assessment too. We changed the way we set as a dress rehearsal for Monday.

Will be a very tactical game but one I am increasingly confident of winning.

[kev martin 9,338]

Early in the season, it appeared that some of our entries into the 50 were aimed at getting the ball over the back.

We haven't deployed that strategy lately. Perhaps pushing the forward line higher is difficult to coordinate, and a defender could still hang back as the goalkeeper/quarterback/intercepter anyway.

I would like to see it again, as it shows a dynamic group. Different plays will keep the defence guessing, we need to be leading in all 360° angles, and the forward congestion and competing against each other (how we play lately) creates less scoring opportunities, though it makes it easier to hold the ball in the forward area. Unfortunately, if we don't take our scoring opportunities, it leaves the others with a sniff, especially if countered by some of the better skilled clubs.

Edited June 10, 2023 by kev martin

[DemonWA 3,655]

2 hours ago, binman said:

 

And so goody may well choose to keep his tactical power dry in tgis game so as not to show his cards for tactics he might use in September (eg strategies to limit daicos' influence).

 

I'm not usually a Goody basher but I don't think he has any major in game tactics to keep dry. He's from the school of 'footy is a pretty simple game - win contests and bring effort' way of thinking imo.  

Also, I don't think we can afford to leave anything on the park here. Could end up being a pivotal match in terms of top 4 positions.

[Tolstoys Nudge 1,373]

22 hours ago, binman said:

But surely that's a given.

In fact I'd argue that will be their challenge, not ours

Bring it.

Yep, fair point — just was only thing he said that really made sense for current footy, all else were a bit nuffy imho!

 

Hearing Max will engage Moore for 70% of this one which excites me, Kossie at his feet & not flying for speccy if the decade fits nicely as well. 
 

Grundy will relish the 70% Ruck work & act as extra clearance help at ground with Clarry missing. Sparrow or Viney for best on!!!

Sidebottom HUGE out as is Elliot, If we kick straight we win, of that I have no doubt! 

[Roost it far 6,447]

4 minutes ago, Nudge said:

Yep, fair point — just was only thing he said that really made sense for current footy, all else were a bit nuffy imho!

 

Hearing Max will engage Moore for 70% of this one which excites me, Kossie at his feet & not flying for speccy if the decade fits nicely as well. 
 

Grundy will relish the 70% Ruck work & act as extra clearance help at ground with Clarry missing. Sparrow or Viney for best on!!!

Sidebottom HUGE out as is Elliot, If we kick straight we win, of that I have no doubt! 

Where did you hear that Max will engage Moore?

[jnrmac 19,507]

18 minutes ago, DemonWA said:

I'm not usually a Goody basher but I don't think he has any major in game tactics to keep dry. He's from the school of 'footy is a pretty simple game - win contests and bring effort' way of thinking imo.  

Also, I don't think we can afford to leave anything on the park here. Could end up being a pivotal match in terms of top 4 positions.

If you think that you weren't watching the Carlton game closely enough.

[DemonWA 3,655]

37 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

If you think that you weren't watching the Carlton game closely enough.

Do enlighten me. Defensive press was great, but I didn't see any ingame magic tricks?

[binman 39,583]

1 hour ago, DemonWA said:

I'm not usually a Goody basher but I don't think he has any major in game tactics to keep dry. He's from the school of 'footy is a pretty simple game - win contests and bring effort' way of thinking imo.  

Also, I don't think we can afford to leave anything on the park here. Could end up being a pivotal match in terms of top 4 positions.

On the first point, i personally think that is myth, one goody is happy to persist.

Sure he doesn't throw the magnets around like say Scott likes to, but he has been very tactically innovative from the get go. 

And this year he has been experimenting with all sorts of innovations and changes to our model. 

[IRW 1,291]

4 minutes ago, binman said:

On the first point, i personally think that is myth, one goody is happy to persist.

Sure he doesn't throw the magnets around like say Scott likes to, but he has been very tactically innovative from the get go. 

And this year he has been experimenting with all sorts of innovations and changes to our model. 

Really?

  Do tell?

Innovations?

Fmd

[DemonWA 3,655]

11 minutes ago, binman said:

On the first point, i personally think that is myth, one goody is happy to persist.

Sure he doesn't throw the magnets around like say Scott likes to, but he has been very tactically innovative from the get go. 

And this year he has been experimenting with all sorts of innovations and changes to our model. 

Yeah I don't dispute there is some strategic nous in his game plan. But my point was mainly around 'in game' tactics etc. I feel like we plan and then set and forget (for better or worse)

[binman 39,583]

11 minutes ago, DemonWA said:

Yeah I don't dispute there is some strategic nous in his game plan. But my point was mainly around 'in game' tactics etc. I feel like we plan and then set and forget (for better or worse)

I don't disagree with that. 

[binman 39,583]

16 minutes ago, IRW said:

Really?

  Do tell?

Innovations?

Fmd

I'll let you do the research. 

[kev martin 9,338]

30 minutes ago, binman said:

Sure he doesn't throw the magnets around like say Scott likes to, but he has been very tactically innovative from the get go. 

Imitation by others means his tactics have been innovative. Like structuring a backline to create intercepts. Pushing high up the field to make multiple forward entries. Prolific scoring from the centre bounce (though has dried up a bit). Holding the ball in the forward 50. We've tried holding the ball in the defensive 50 and slinging, though it didn't work well. Making a midfield swarm. The chaos ball, has fugazi been implemented this season. Perhaps that was the point of having Collingwood themes blasting at training. Role playing by many of the team. Transitional game, holding the wings wide and running the rails. Goody is a strategist and I believe this week he will have a structure from stoppages that will be looking inside for runners and so creating quick entries. He is also building our extra time game. Has been making others play to our way, and not really much the other way round.

Edited June 10, 2023 by kev martin

[binman 39,583]

3 hours ago, kev martin said:

Imitation by others means his tactics have been innovative. Like structuring a backline to create intercepts. Pushing high up the field to make multiple forward entries. Prolific scoring from the centre bounce (though has dried up a bit). Holding the ball in the forward 50. We've tried holding the ball in the defensive 50 and slinging, though it didn't work well. Making a midfield swarm. The chaos ball, has fugazi been implemented this season. Perhaps that was the point of having Collingwood themes blasting at training. Role playing by many of the team. Transitional game, holding the wings wide and running the rails. Goody is a strategist and I believe this week he will have a structure from stoppages that will be looking inside for runners and so creating quick entries. He is also building our extra time game. Has been making others play to our way, and not really much the other way round.

Against the blues goody had some really unusual forward set ups at centre bounces (for us).

I was at the top of the Ponsford, looking down the ground and they really chopped and changed their syarting structure and personnel up forward.

One had them all in a straight line goal square to centre circle, with Smith at full forward and nibbler at chf.

Another had them spread really wide. With Chandler and nibbler up high and wide.

And heaps of space for jvr.

[Roost it far 6,447]

Are Freo loading?

[Jaded No More 60,122]

Any chance Reiwoldt gets a free?

[deanox 9,004]

2 hours ago, binman said:

Against the blues goody had some really unusual forward set ups at centre bounces (for us).

I was at the top of the Ponsford, looking down the ground and they really chopped and changed their syarting structure and personnel up forward.

One had them all in a straight line goal square to centre circle, with Smith at full forward and nibbler at chf.

Another had them spread really wide. With Chandler and nibbler up high and wide.

And heaps of space for jvr.

We've also been experimenting with throwing two very deep (ie one in the goal swaure and one next to it), something I haven't seen other teams doing.

@DemonWA and @IRW in modern footy, there aren't really many "throw the magnets around" type in game tactical moves anymore, because the game is too professional, and because a lot of the time the reason a team is losing is because they aren't playing their game plan right, not because the match ups are wrong.

Throwing things around confuses everyone on the field, destroying zones and structures, disrupting team harmony.

But examples this year have included Petty forward (as well as trialling TMac and BBB, plus Smith), McVee's role in the back 6, the various ways we've used Gulrundy and Gawn, etc.

[binman 39,583]

8 minutes ago, deanox said:

We've also been experimenting with throwing two very deep (ie one in the goal swaure and one next to it), something I haven't seen other teams doing.

@DemonWA and @IRW in modern footy, there aren't really many "throw the magnets around" type in game tactical moves anymore, because the game is too professional, and because a lot of the time the reason a team is losing is because they aren't playing their game plan right, not because the match ups are wrong.

Throwing things around confuses everyone on the field, destroying zones and structures, disrupting team harmony.

But examples this year have included Petty forward (as well as trialling TMac and BBB, plus Smith), McVee's role in the back 6, the various ways we've used Gulrundy and Gawn, etc.

I've been sitting on the wing at most games.

And you don't really get a sense at all of their set up and structures at centre bounces. 

Or for that matter their zone structure or tbat sort of amoeba that follows the ball (a big swarm of players around the ball and a ring of players 60 odd metres from the ball).

Which is why i love sitting up top of the posnsford. 

 

[deanox 9,004]

11 hours ago, binman said:

I've been sitting on the wing at most games.

And you don't really get a sense at all of their set up and structures at centre bounces. 

Or for that matter their zone structure or tbat sort of amoeba that follows the ball (a big swarm of players around the ball and a ring of players 60 odd metres from the ball).

Which is why i love sitting up top of the posnsford. 

 

I'm in redlegs, Level 2 Punt Rd end directly behind the goals. I've sat there as standard as long as I can remember.

The view of the structures and zone moving up the field, how it shifts side to side, and even how we lengthen it at times, is really clear there.

 

Against Carlton was a mile ahead of anything else I've seen us do this year. I was surprised to see the pressure rating low because of how well we were constantly setting up, shifting and forcing them to just stop. I guess that running hard to space to set up a defensive zone doesn't qualify as a  "pressure act" for the purpose of preasure points because it isn't about directly pressuring the ball carrier.

I wasn't surprised that Goody was happy with what he saw. 

 

Last time I sat on the true wing I was really frustrated. It's better than TV, but it is so hard to see what's happening with shape.

Edited June 11, 2023 by deanox
Typo

[binman 39,583]

1 hour ago, deanox said:

I'm in redlegs, Level 2 Punt Rd end directly behind the goals. I've sat there as standard as long as I can remember.

The view of the structures and zone moving up the field, how it shifts side to side, and even how we lengthen it at times, is really clear there.

 

Against Carlton was a mile ahead of anything else I've seen us do this year. I a surprised to see the issue rating low  because of how well we were constantly setting up, shifting and forcing them to just stop. I guess that running hard to space to set up a defensive zone doesn't qualify as a  "pressure act" for the purpose of preasure points because it isn't about directly pressuring the ball carrier.

I wasn't surprised that Goody was happy with what he saw. 

 

Last time I sat on the true wing I was really frustrated. It's better than TV, but it is so hard to see what's happening with shape.

For years I've sat on the top of the Ponsford. It's only this year that I've been sitting on the wing/hf

The wing level one is great when the ball is being played on that wing. And the players are so much closer

Can't see jack on the other side. Or Max.

And the dees quarter time huddles are right below, which i like. 

[FlashInThePan 1,893]

9 hours ago, binman said:

For years I've sat on the top of the Ponsford. It's only this year that I've been sitting on the wing/hf

The wing level one is great when the ball is being played on that wing. And the players are so much closer

Can't see jack on the other side. Or Max.

And the dees quarter time huddles are right below, which i like. 

That is roughly where I sit in m14. I find the same thing, certain parts of the game are super clear but I can only tell how our press is working by the way the other team moves the ball. I have to watch the replay afterwards to get some of the details.

i never comment during a game and rarely straight after since it can look so different when you see more of the structure. I have been meaning to try and get a level 2 seat for a while, I’m feeling motivated to pull my finger out and try at the end of this season now.

[old55 21,874]

12 hours ago, deanox said:

I'm in redlegs, Level 2 Punt Rd end directly behind the goals. I've sat there as standard as long as I can remember.

The view of the structures and zone moving up the field, how it shifts side to side, and even how we lengthen it at times, is really clear there.

 

Against Carlton was a mile ahead of anything else I've seen us do this year. I was surprised to see the pressure rating low because of how well we were constantly setting up, shifting and forcing them to just stop. I guess that running hard to space to set up a defensive zone doesn't qualify as a  "pressure act" for the purpose of preasure points because it isn't about directly pressuring the ball carrier.

I wasn't surprised that Goody was happy with what he saw. 

 

Last time I sat on the true wing I was really frustrated. It's better than TV, but it is so hard to see what's happening with shape.

Agree, behind the goals is the best view. GA - PRE Level 4 or 2A if it's open to GA and not raining

Edited June 11, 2023 by old55

[jnrmac 19,507]

19 hours ago, deanox said:

We've also been experimenting with throwing two very deep (ie one in the goal swaure and one next to it), something I haven't seen other teams doing.

@DemonWA and @IRW in modern footy, there aren't really many "throw the magnets around" type in game tactical moves anymore, because the game is too professional, and because a lot of the time the reason a team is losing is because they aren't playing their game plan right, not because the match ups are wrong.

Throwing things around confuses everyone on the field, destroying zones and structures, disrupting team harmony.

But examples this year have included Petty forward (as well as trialling TMac and BBB, plus Smith), McVee's role in the back 6, the various ways we've used Gulrundy and Gawn, etc.

When you play a team game throwing around the magnets takes away from the strategy. Players become confused about who goes where and who is minding who etc. It becomes self defeating. Better off using Grundy or Gawn to be the floater fwd or back to assist the defence or frwards

To counter teams attacking frm their D50 Goody has used tactics like Petty on T McCartin and Thommo on McKay. Or ANB /Kozzie shadowing Saad. I fully expect JSMith to shadow Moore with Gawn/Grundy floating fwd. And I expect to see ANB or Kozie shadow the kick ins and follow up running from Daicos

Our wings when we are attacking usually run fwd of the ball, particularly at centre bounce. We rarely have our wings coming in to the defensive side of the centre scrimmage. They like to keep their width and are often used as an exit if we are in trouble.

[Binmans PA 26,726]

5 hours ago, old55 said:

Agree, behind the goals is the best view. GA - PRE Level 4 or 2A if it's open to GA and not raining

I can't stand sitting anywhere other than the wing or flank. Elevated, behind the goals is probably a better view for structures, but you can make them out from the wing/flank too.

Edited June 11, 2023 by A F

[kev martin 9,338]

On 6/10/2023 at 3:42 PM, binman said:

he has been very tactically innovative from the get go. 

Goody has also introduced a bit of vernacular into the lexicon of the AFL, like, brand, connection, corridor, process.

The modern coach, which Goody has had a hand in developing and exemplifies, keeps a cool exterior, is focused on the positive, treats his players as adults, and empathises family inclusion as much as possible.