Game plans, tactics and all that jazz

[layzie 28,519]

That Rd 18 spike is what we're looking for and what everything is presumably geared towards. Hope it works out. 

[Demon Dynasty 15,210]

Brenton Sanderson's take on KB from a Demon perspective today on SEN.

Some general stuff...

👉  Limit the amount of marks the Pies take inside 50 to ten or under

👉  Try and up our pressure through the middle to assist May & Lever down back.  Made more difficult if we don't have Clarry obviously.   Regardless, all three smalls in Chandler, Spargo & Kozzy to help out here by playing a fair degree of time higher up the ground.

I feel Sando was asking for the three smalls to play higher (no doubt at various times) and play roles through the middle in a general sense when we're defending, allowing a mid or two to fold back to add with intercept & pressure acts inside D 50.

👉 Max to play significant time behind the ball instead of usual part-time forward, adding an extra interceptor to assist Lever & May & limit the Pie's number of marks i50.

His 5 Points if Sando was in Goodwin's shoes this week...

1.  Win contested ball and clearance.  We've only won 5 out of 12 so far.

2.  Have a player responsible for Moore.  Match him in the air.  Take him away from as many inside 50s as possible (use Grundy as a decoy on the lead and instead go over the back to JVR & Fritta?... my suggestion), change the angles of entry wherever possible ie; don't just boot the ball in straight lines into 50 or Moore will pick them off.

3.  No kicking the ball inside 50 until you get to the launch pad.  The launch pad is 70 meters or less.  Do not blaze away / bomb from outside the launch pad.  Find a short forward mark until you are inside 70... then launch.

4.  Dial up the frontal pressure.  When a side plays fast off the turnover / break like the Pies it's often a natural instinct for many players to retreat and race back towards the 50 to set up your defence.  With the Pies you need to have a different mind-set and meet their fast break head on, getting up into their grill.  Keep coming forward in this way and bringing the heat, DO NOT retreat.

5  Get the Gawn / Grundy ruck balance right.  Grundy more forward this week and possibly the best match up on Moore.  Gawny playing more minutes as the main ruck.   

Edited June 8, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[Binmans PA 25,897]

I like the Gawn behind the ball suggestion, but there's some interesting psychology behind that move, because Cox got Max's kidneys last year. He'll do it again of he gets the chance, however I reckon it's worth risking it, so Max provides extra cover for our defence. He needs to find his 2021 form in the air though.

Edited June 8, 2023 by A F

[layzie 28,519]

1 hour ago, A F said:

I like the Gawn behind the ball suggestion, but there's some interesting psychology behind that move, because Cox got Max's kidneys last year. He'll do it again of he gets the chance, however I reckon it's worth risking it, so Max provides extra cover for our defence. He needs to find his 2021 form in the air though.

We really need to get his kidneys before he can get Max's.

Edited June 8, 2023 by layzie

[Older demon 2,166]

Out of the JVR interviews this week, last week was the first time he has taken a mark out in the open. All his marks so far have been contested. Evidence of the long bomb strategy. As Good says we are still learning maybe he is keeping the lower-your-eyes spread and hit a leading target strategy for the 2nd half of the season. I thought Casey did this really well last week with a small fast team on the park even more so when Bell was subbed out early. 

[deelusions from afar 1,608]

14 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

His 5 Points if Sando was in Goodwin's shoes this week...

1.  Win contested ball and clearance.  We've only won 5 out of 12 so far.

2.  Have a player responsible for Moore.  Match him in the air.  Take him away from as many inside 50s as possible (use Grundy as a decoy on the lead and instead go over the back to JVR & Fritta?... my suggestion), change the angles of entry wherever possible ie; don't just boot the ball in straight lines into 50 or Moore will pick them off.

3.  No kicking the ball inside 50 until you get to the launch pad.  The launch pad is 70 meters or less.  Do not blaze away / bomb from outside the launch pad.  Find a short forward mark until you are inside 70... then launch.

4.  Dial up the frontal pressure.  When a side plays fast off the turnover / break like the Pies it's often a natural instinct for many players to retreat and race back towards the 50 to set up your defence.  With the Pies you need to have a different mind-set and meet their fast break head on, getting up into their grill.  Keep coming forward in this way and bringing the heat, DO NOT retreat.

5  Get the Gawn / Grundy ruck balance right.  Grundy more forward this week and possibly the best match up on Moore.  Gawny playing more minutes as the main ruck.

Listened to this as well @Demon Dynasty and this is not a slight on you - but I found Sando's comments to be pretty vanilla.  Things like no kicking ball inside 50 until 70 out or dialing up the forward pressure... does Sando really think that our game plan would be anything else?  We want the forward pressure dialed up every week (as every team does).  And launching into F50 from further out generally means you're under a lot of pressure. 

Similar re Moore - just like for May / Lever, every team needs a plan.  Just because you have a plan, doesn't mean it will work.  I think Gawn is the only player that would worry Moore in the air (provided the pies don't allow JVR to get a clean run at it).

Win contested ball and clearance - of course we want to win it.  But it's more what you do with it / whether we can get turnovers from when they win it.  

 

 

[Demon Dynasty 15,210]

1 hour ago, deelusions from afar said:

Listened to this as well @Demon Dynasty and this is not a slight on you - but I found Sando's comments to be pretty vanilla.  Things like no kicking ball inside 50 until 70 out or dialing up the forward pressure... does Sando really think that our game plan would be anything else?  We want the forward pressure dialed up every week (as every team does).  And launching into F50 from further out generally means you're under a lot of pressure. 

Similar re Moore - just like for May / Lever, every team needs a plan.  Just because you have a plan, doesn't mean it will work.  I think Gawn is the only player that would worry Moore in the air (provided the pies don't allow JVR to get a clean run at it).

Win contested ball and clearance - of course we want to win it.  But it's more what you do with it / whether we can get turnovers from when they win it.  

 

 

My take on his comment about "dialling up forward pressure" was initially along your lines of thinking DF.  He did mention separate to that "smalls pressuring inside 50" which isn't rocket science for sure.

However, after listenting back to it again the main point he was trying to say after his comment about 'smalls pressuring inside 50' was different to that. 

He was talking in terms of "forward (frontal) pressure" at the ball carrier.  No retreating/racing back to defensive 50 "Keep coming forward and getting in their grill" (face).

I thought his points re:  Max behind the ball to assist Lever & May, Grundy going to Moore, Maxy taking over the alpha role with more time in the middle and ruck in general (vs Grundy) were worthy of consideration and may have some merit.

I'm certainly not suggesting he has all the answers to what Goody should do on KB but imho it's a good opportunity to hear from someone who's coached at the highest level and been in the system for many years at various clubs.

Also he has to be across about 3 to 4 games for this SEN session so he probably can't get into crazy depth vs if he was analysing one match alone.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[Watson11 1,881]

1 hour ago, Demon Dynasty said:

He was talking in terms of "forward (frontal) pressure" at the ball carrier.  No retreating/racing back to defensive 50 "Keep coming forward and getting in their grill" (face).

This was what Brisbane did against them.  After the game Fagan openly told every other coach how to beat the pies.  For some reason either no other team has tried or it’s a lot harder than it sounds.

[Roost it far 5,979]

If we bring the heat and kick straight we'll win. But the heat has to be 4 quarters and right up at em. Clarry out is a loss but he's been out for the last 2 so we've got our structures. Sidebottom out for them is huge, I think he's super important and a bigger loss than DeGoey. He makes space like a baker makes dough. Can't wait for this. Just need to get in front early and then pull away for a 42 point win.

[Demon Dynasty 15,210]

16 minutes ago, Watson11 said:

This was what Brisbane did against them.  After the game Fagan openly told every other coach how to beat the pies.  For some reason either no other team has tried or it’s a lot harder than it sounds.

Yes and most likely they would've trained for it in the week of the lead up W11.

It would be kind of strange if others didn't use that match as the blue print and at least attempt some aspects of it.

Which means going away from your usual style / set-ups somewhat.

They've beaten us the last few times trying to play the Melbourne way. 

Might be time for us to change up a little.

[binman 37,793]

2 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

My take on his comment about "dialling up forward pressure" was initially along your lines of thinking DF.  He did mention separate to that "smalls pressuring inside 50" which isn't rocket science for sure.

However, after listenting back to it again the main point he was trying to say after his comment about 'smalls pressuring inside 50' was different to that. 

He was talking in terms of "forward (frontal) pressure" at the ball carrier.  No retreating/racing back to defensive 50 "Keep coming forward and getting in their grill" (face).

I thought his points re:  Max behind the ball to assist Lever & May, Grundy going to Moore, Maxy taking over the alpha role with more time in the middle and ruck in general (vs Grundy) were worthy of consideration and may have some merit.

I'm certainly not suggesting he has all the answers to what Goody should do on KB but imho it's a good opportunity to hear from someone who's coached at the highest level and been in the system for many years at various clubs.

Also he has to be across about 3 to 4 games for this SEN session so he probably can't get into crazy depth vs if he was analysing one match alone.

I really like Sando's analysis. I reckon he hasn't quite got the dees right this season, but he generally makes his case well and has sound arguments so i def consider them and respect his views.

One example of not getting it right about us is his insistence that the Pies are 'by far' the fittest team in the AFL - a point i have heard him make a number of times.

Maybe he has access to the GPS numbers because otherwise i'm not sure how he has reached that conclusion.

I wonder whether he is conflating last year's relative fitness levels, where we def dropped off in the back half of the season.

But, by all accounts we had a brilliant preseason in terms of building our fitness foundation as evidenced by running all over the top of the Dogs and then Swans.

And he has cited their last quarters as one piece of evidence of the Pies being the fittest side, but we have only lost 2 of 12 last quarters and are number one in the AFL for red time goals.

Edited June 9, 2023 by binman

[binman 37,793]

On his five points, hard to argue with them, but also agree they are a bit captain obvious. 

The frontal pressure is absolutely key, particularly in terms of denying their elite kicks time and space.

When we are on, i think we are the best in the AFL at pressing up and timing that press. It is real team skill because if say Hunter presses up and doesn't quite get there, a teammate has to press up from behind to cover the player being kicked to and/or stop the tic tac.

Pressing up hard and getting in their grill is a key strategy for how we look to limit the impact of players like Daniel and Saad - deny them time and space so they can't play that quarter back role and set up transition and scoring chains.  Funnily enough, I was reflecting that i didn't highlight this on the podcast because this is what we will look to do against Dacos and Pendles. 

For mine though, they key for us to win is pressure.

One, because obviously it makes their risky kicks harder to hit

Two, we are the turnover kings and it is our most important scoring source.  Pressure is key to creating turnovers. 

But as important is needing to slow them down on transition. Even if we only slow them down a little bit, our defence can get set up behind the ball. And pressure is how to slow them down. 

If we can't slow them down on transition, they will separate May and Lever and create one on ones up forward which we will struggle to zone off and cover.

The other related strategy is blocking up the corridor and daring them to take it on. Again, i think we are the best in the AFL at doing this. If they miss a couple of those kicks early and we punish them on turnover, it will test their nerve as the game goes on.

[Tolstoys Nudge 1,237]

3 hours ago, deelusions from afar said:

Listened to this as well @Demon Dynasty and this is not a slight on you - but I found Sando's comments to be pretty vanilla.  Things like no kicking ball inside 50 until 70 out or dialing up the forward pressure... does Sando really think that our game plan would be anything else?  We want the forward pressure dialed up every week (as every team does).  And launching into F50 from further out generally means you're under a lot of pressure. 

Similar re Moore - just like for May / Lever, every team needs a plan.  Just because you have a plan, doesn't mean it will work.  I think Gawn is the only player that would worry Moore in the air (provided the pies don't allow JVR to get a clean run at it).

Win contested ball and clearance - of course we want to win it.  But it's more what you do with it / whether we can get turnovers from when they win it.  

 

 

Clearance and cont ball, well we did so against Carlton as it is their 1wood & clearances aren’t about the number it’s about the QUALITY ie back kicks forom an oppo clearance is often BETTER than winning it ourselves!

[Tolstoys Nudge 1,237]

23 minutes ago, binman said:

On his five points, hard to argue with them, but also agree they are a bit captain obvious. 

The frontal pressure is absolutely key, particularly in terms of denying their elite kicks time and space.

When we are on, i think we are the best in the AFL at pressing up and timing that press. It is real team skill because if say Hunter presses up and doesn't quite get there, a teammate has to press up from behind to cover the player being kicked to and/or stop the tic tac.

Pressing up hard and getting in their grill is a key strategy for how we look to limit the impact of players like Daniel and Saad - deny them time and space so they can't play that quarter back role and set up transition and scoring chains.  Funnily enough, I was reflecting that i didn't highlight this on the podcast because this is what we will look to do against Dacos and Pendles. 

For mine though, they key for us to win is pressure.

One, because obviously it makes their risky kicks harder to hit

Two, we are the turnover kings and it is our most important scoring source.  Pressure is key to creating turnovers. 

But as important is needing to slow them down on transition. Even if we only slow them down a little bit, our defence can get set up behind the ball. And pressure is how to slow them down. 

If we can't slow them down on transition, they will separate May and Lever and create one on ones up forward which we will struggle to zone off and cover.

The other related strategy is blocking up the corridor and daring them to take it on. Again, i think we are the best in the AFL at doing this. If they miss a couple of those kicks early and we punish them on turnover, it will test their nerve as the game goes on.

His best point was about meeting pies attacks head-on and NOT retreating… Rest are a bit meh 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Nudge

[binman 37,793]

21 minutes ago, Nudge said:

His best point was about meeting pies attacks head-on and NOT retreating… Rest are a bit meh 

But surely that's a given.

In fact I'd argue that will be their challenge, not ours

Bring it.

[Engorged Onion 9,239]

7 minutes ago, binman said:

But surely that's a given.

In fact I'd argue that will be their challenge, not ours

Bring it.

 

[deelusions from afar 1,608]

3 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

My take on his comment about "dialling up forward pressure" was initially along your lines of thinking DF.  He did mention separate to that "smalls pressuring inside 50" which isn't rocket science for sure.

However, after listenting back to it again the main point he was trying to say after his comment about 'smalls pressuring inside 50' was different to that. 

He was talking in terms of "forward (frontal) pressure" at the ball carrier.  No retreating/racing back to defensive 50 "Keep coming forward and getting in their grill" (face).

I thought his points re:  Max behind the ball to assist Lever & May, Grundy going to Moore, Maxy taking over the alpha role with more time in the middle and ruck in general (vs Grundy) were worthy of consideration and may have some merit.

I'm certainly not suggesting he has all the answers to what Goody should do on KB but imho it's a good opportunity to hear from someone who's coached at the highest level and been in the system for many years at various clubs.

Also he has to be across about 3 to 4 games for this SEN session so he probably can't get into crazy depth vs if he was analysing one match alone.

Fair enough - I guess I remember (all too well) how we attacked them early when we played them the second time round last year.  Our pressure was elite with so many turnovers in the forward half - we really should have put more goals on the board.  But from half way in the 3rd and most of the 4th they got us time and time again on turnover going the length of the field in waves.  We looked gassed and their foot skills (and Johnson's straight kicking for goal) carved us up.  Arguably our fitness levels had dropped off (and a few key players were carrying things) - but I think part of the issue is we went soo hard with the forward pressure in the first half we couldn't keep going in the second.

 

Re Max and Grundy, his points make sense and he might be right (in giving Gawn more like 80% ruck time and Grundy on Moore).  But my hesitation is based on three things:

1. Gawn may be more effective in the ruck (particularly as he can double as the spare defender).  But is the difference he provides more than what you lose in the forward half?  I.e. If Gawn's value as Ruck / extra man in defence is 9 and Grundy in the ruck is 8 (just for arguments sake), what are Gawn / Grundy's value as forwards?  I'd probably have them as 7 and 4 respectively.  It is easy to say give more ruck time to Gawn - but what gives the best cumulative value for the team?

2. The idea that Grundy can keep Moore busy is laughable in my view (very happy to be proven wrong though).  Grundy has surprised many with what he has shown as a forward - he hasn't been bad at all.  But for mine he's done the most damage when he hasn't had someone close checking him / against poorer teams.  He's a smart footballer - but he has played 90% of his career in the ruck.  The idea that he can come in and know how to get Moore (the best defender in the comp this year) to follow him into spaces he doesn't want to go is a stretch.  I can't see Moore being too worried about Grundy.  I guess it comes down to us using Grundy (or whoever is on Moore) at every opportunity

3. From what I've seen, Gawn doesn't seem 100%.  He's giving it his all but isn't quite there.  I suspect that is why he has spent more time forward since returning from injury.  However, last week he got more time on the ball in the last quarter and seemed to show he had his touch back with a number of contested marks and the big goal - hopefully he can go up another level this week.  But would be very surprised to see him play 80% ruck time... especially against Cox who caused his injury last year.

[BigMacjnr 278]

1 hour ago, binman said:

I really like Sando's analysis. I reckon he hasn't quite got the dees right this season, but he generally makes his case well and has sound arguments so i def consider them and respect his views.

One example of not getting it right about us is his insistence that the Pies are 'by far' the fittest team in the AFL - a point i have heard him make a number of times.

Maybe he has access to the GPS numbers because otherwise i'm not sure how he has reached that conclusion.

I wonder whether he is conflating last year's relative fitness levels, where we def dropped off in the back half of the season.

But, by all accounts we had a brilliant preseason in terms of building our fitness foundation as evidenced by running all over the top of the Dogs and then Swans.

And he has cited their last quarters as one piece of evidence of the Pies being the fittest side, but we have only lost 2 of 12 last quarters and are number one in the AFL for red time goals.

Really agree with all you noted. And points well made on red time and last qtrs. The only general public information and discrepancy that you can see the running power of the Pies is in their total Sprints. Looking round 1 to 12 we have covered on average 1.33 kms more per match in our matches than the Pies. But the Pies average an extra 13.67 'sprints per game'. They quite regularly on differential outmatch their opponents other than against the cats (surprisingly) and the Crows. 

Issac Quaynor surprisingly is their king sprinter as the top 'sprints' per game regularly in a type of Langdon esque league of his own. All their wings/half backs - crisp and n.daicos/j.daicos are also high sprinting showing their game style with a larger demand on their wings and backs. Will be interesting to see how this meshes with our high workrate from our forwards and wingers. 

Trying to them make the 'running power make sense', the Pies don't blow the other team away in average speed in combined in attack/defence, but their speed back in defence is much sharper showing the demands their system requires of them...looks much like our numbers to be honest. 

Wish there was a better wealth of statistics available to the public beyond what WheeloRatings and others provide.  

[layzie 28,519]

3 hours ago, Roost it far said:

If we bring the heat and kick straight we'll win. But the heat has to be 4 quarters and right up at em. Clarry out is a loss but he's been out for the last 2 so we've got our structures. Sidebottom out for them is huge, I think he's super important and a bigger loss than DeGoey. He makes space like a baker makes dough. Can't wait for this. Just need to get in front early and then pull away for a 42 point win.

Honestly if all we do is kick straight we'll win. Less Collingwood kick-ins. 

[redandbluemakepurple 317]

I expect Grundy to run amok as did Jackson against his former team.  As did Farmer, Power and Travis Johnstone.  When TJ had 46 disposals agin us, it seemed stupifying.

[rpfc 27,391]

The Pies rely on a swarm mentality on turnover especially if their back flank is set up and near the opportunity to turn it over. They leave their direct opponent and just trust each other to do the same and beat you at the contest 6 on 2 or whatever it is. It is so exciting and as a coach I love it because it shows absolute trust and connection. 

If I was to poke through it I would need the cattle to do it - ball winners on every line that back themselves and any teammate with in close play and then just get really predictable when the swarm comes; when it descends on me and my mate, we get it out to the lines through hands or we hit it to the corner of the square with kick whenever we can - make the outnumber work for you. If you cough it up easy its curtains. That is not to say we shouldn’t have dare - quite the opposite - but in the contest, holding the footy is a better result than a blaze away with hands or short kick.

I think we have the cattle to win, but we will have to show better connection in the contest than I have seen the last few weeks and we will have to make better decisions in the front half - too panicky and weird self-invented pressure from what I have seen.

Edited June 9, 2023 by rpfc

[DemonWA 3,426]

I feel like contested posessions on the half forward and half back flanks will decide the game. Kind of self explanatory but when we're on, we win the 50-50 balls in these positions, both in the air and on the ground

[binman 37,793]

8 hours ago, BigMacjnr said:

Really agree with all you noted. And points well made on red time and last qtrs. The only general public information and discrepancy that you can see the running power of the Pies is in their total Sprints. Looking round 1 to 12 we have covered on average 1.33 kms more per match in our matches than the Pies. But the Pies average an extra 13.67 'sprints per game'. They quite regularly on differential outmatch their opponents other than against the cats (surprisingly) and the Crows. 

Issac Quaynor surprisingly is their king sprinter as the top 'sprints' per game regularly in a type of Langdon esque league of his own. All their wings/half backs - crisp and n.daicos/j.daicos are also high sprinting showing their game style with a larger demand on their wings and backs. Will be interesting to see how this meshes with our high workrate from our forwards and wingers. 

Trying to them make the 'running power make sense', the Pies don't blow the other team away in average speed in combined in attack/defence, but their speed back in defence is much sharper showing the demands their system requires of them...looks much like our numbers to be honest. 

Wish there was a better wealth of statistics available to the public beyond what WheeloRatings and others provide.  

Great post.

Those sprint numbers are crazy for the pies. As you say it needs to because they push up so high, and if they turn it over, have to sprint back to get ahead of the ball.

It that scenario we have a player back, but the pies often have noone deep.

But whilst the sprint numbers are a great indicator for their running power, it doesn't nessesarily mean they are fitter (not suggesting you are saying that).

Don't get me wrong, they are clearly very fit and have better running power than us.

But we have more power and grunt. And when on, use it powerfully. 

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 5,789]

18 hours ago, binman said:

On his five points, hard to argue with them, but also agree they are a bit captain obvious. 

The frontal pressure is absolutely key, particularly in terms of denying their elite kicks time and space.

When we are on, i think we are the best in the AFL at pressing up and timing that press. It is real team skill because if say Hunter presses up and doesn't quite get there, a teammate has to press up from behind to cover the player being kicked to and/or stop the tic tac.

Pressing up hard and getting in their grill is a key strategy for how we look to limit the impact of players like Daniel and Saad - deny them time and space so they can't play that quarter back role and set up transition and scoring chains.  Funnily enough, I was reflecting that i didn't highlight this on the podcast because this is what we will look to do against Dacos and Pendles. 

For mine though, they key for us to win is pressure.

One, because obviously it makes their risky kicks harder to hit

Two, we are the turnover kings and it is our most important scoring source.  Pressure is key to creating turnovers. 

But as important is needing to slow them down on transition. Even if we only slow them down a little bit, our defence can get set up behind the ball. And pressure is how to slow them down. 

If we can't slow them down on transition, they will separate May and Lever and create one on ones up forward which we will struggle to zone off and cover.

The other related strategy is blocking up the corridor and daring them to take it on. Again, i think we are the best in the AFL at doing this. If they miss a couple of those kicks early and we punish them on turnover, it will test their nerve as the game goes on.

If you watched closely last Friday against Carlton we were fine tuning our mid zone press, Carlton could not get through.

Mind you Carlton are not the greatest by foot, we need to get them handballing and running through our zone.

The correct pressure will affect any team.

Haven't seen that we have been this aggressive with our collective defensive shape for a while compact and committed.

F50 aerial + ground pressure, our mid zone compactness, (closing off the corridor) and around the ground talls marking are the keys to this match.

Edited June 9, 2023 by YesitwasaWin4theAges

[binman 37,793]

23 minutes ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

If you watched closely last Friday against Carlton we were fine tuning our mid zone press, Carlton could not get through.

Mind you Carlton are not the greatest by foot, we need to get them handballing and running through our zone.

The correct pressure will affect any team.

Haven't seen that we have been this aggressive with our collective defensive shape for a while compact and committed.

F50 aerial + ground pressure, our mid zone compactness, (closing off the corridor) and around the ground talls marking are the keys to this match.

Good analysis.

Agree with your keys to winning.

Your observation about fine tuning the mid zone press are really interesting.

I hadn't really considered the distinction between our normal defensive structure and our set up in the blues game.

But you are right, they had a real focus on denying inside 50s and setting a grid up higher, whereas in the first half of 2022 they were set deeper and happy enough to let teams get the inside 50 and back themselves in to win it.

But the speed the pies have introduced challenges that as we can't set and/or zone off as well.

And teams, like Port and freo have started engineering free players on the 50 metre arcs on the flank to exploit our defensive structure (and limit levers influence as as an interceptor).

So, moving that zone up the ground makes sense. Particularly against the pies because they are number one for fewest oppo inside 50s, meaning their back line is set high and play alot of their footy between the arcs. 

I take your point about the blues kicking skills, they were appalling. But i heard, i think the blues footy boss (cant remember his name) on the radio on my way to the game and he said they were going to play fast footy.

So they came into the game with an attacking mind set and to take us on. Pies like

And ran head on to a team fully focused on stopping them get any flow, space or time.

But not from pressure (which was our season low by some margin), from structure.

And they couldn’t deal with it.

Perfect practice for the pies game.

I truly believe the pies model had a significant vulnerability - it doesn’t work if they can't hit their targets on transition.

Not so much because if they turn it over that scoring chain is broken. That happens on all turnovers. And turnovers are unavoidable.

But because when they turn it over their defenders, wingers and mids, who have all pressed up and tracked the ball to create an outnumber and handball (and kick) receive option, have to turn and as one all get back.

To be fair, they are brilliant at doing so. And are super fit.

But there must be a point where that starts to take a toll. And we are the team to get them to that point.

I keep coming back to their two highest pressure games they have played since the start of the 2022 final series - the cats and swans finals.

They lost them both. 

In large part because turnovers reallthurt them late in both games ans particularly against the cats struggled to get back in defence late in the game, meaning open space inside 50 and easy goals.

People love to play the who have Melbourne beaten game. Well who have the pies beaten?

Of the serious contenders, they are 2-1, having beaten Port and the cats (who I think are contenders, but many dont) and losing to the lions.

Granted we havent beaten a serious contender, though we've not played the cats yet, meaning we are 0-2.

But if you think Port is a contender (which I now do) a four point loss on their home deck, in the wet and missing chances, suddenly looks a pretty good performance (as will the freo loss as the season progresses - they are a good team).

If we beat the pies, which I predict we will, they will be 2-2 against the serious contenders and we will be 2-1. 

That said, depending on the nature of the loss, it won't dint my confidence about our chances in September if we lose.

It's all about September. For the pies too.

And so goody may well choose to keep his tactical power dry in tgis game so as not to show his cards for tactics he might use in September (eg strategies to limit daicos' influence).