I would have loved to have chosen Collingwood, Essendon or Richmond as a kid. 

Could have kept me interested in AFL and also given me some joy in that time

And yet Goodwin has not a shred of pressure on him. Well done to our brilliant board for giving him a long term contract as if he was a hot commodity in danger of going elsewhere. Idiots. 

Yep, as frustrating as the modern game. The instinct has been coached out of players. The game looked better when forwards actually ran at the ball rather than running with it. Screw the trend of scoring from the forward half Goody, it’s clearly not working for us at the moment.

I don’t fully buy the notion of our boys being that lazy in two way running, what I see is a lot of confusion ( structure/zone wise) when the opposition commences slow movement from the back. If we stand here they are bound to turn it over eventually mentality. 

Edited June 29, 20204 yr by Dee Zephyr

Just the idea that we're rightfully called frustrating should at least be acknowledgement that we have many of the ingredients required to be a successful side. Not ideal I know but right now I'll take that over everything that came immediately before the Roos / Goodwin era. 

 

2 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

There a simple way out of this ... increase the intensity of our attack on the ball, generate more inside fifties, and play chaos ball to the point where it looks like we were playing chess before.

We could go closer to  'man-on-man',  in the situation like the Cats game, when they are possessing the ball.  Which ironically would likely see them then go long down the line.

15 hours ago, ding said:

How on Earth do we expect to develop anyone with the absolute Chump we have in charge? I struggle to name a single player who has become consistently better since he took over the reigns.

Can you think of anyone other than maybe Petracca? Even then he has only been a flash in the pan who we HOPE has turned the corner.

Anyone else? I really cant think of anyone immediately who is a better player for having been coached by Goodwin.

He hasnt exactly turned them into spuds, but surely there should have been a noticeable improvement in the majority of the list in the last few years. Its easy to argue the opposite has happened. 

Yes, im frustrated.

Tom McDonald, Harmes, Oliver, Brayshaw, Petracca, Melksham. 

2 hours ago, BW511 said:

I would have loved to have chosen Collingwood, Essendon or Richmond as a kid. 

Could have kept me interested in AFL and also given me some joy in that time

if i'd been born a hawthorn supporter (yuck!!) i would've seen NINE premierships and another FIVE runner-ups

their success in my 41 years on this planet has been extreme

15 hours ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

Just a small step.  And we need to get it done while our core group of mids are still in their prime... 

Viney - 26.2Yr old

Salem - 24.11Yr old

Harmes - 24.8Yr old

Petracca - 24.5Yr old

Brayshaw - 24.5Yr old

Neal-Bllen - 24.5Yr old

Oliver - 22.11Yr old

 

Only Viney is currently in his prime.

All the others are yet to reach that age period.

2 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

if i'd been born a hawthorn supporter (yuck!!) i would've seen NINE premierships and another FIVE runner-ups

their success in my 41 years on this planet has been extreme

I have seen 12 Whorethorn Flags!!

(They will go close again this year, whilst we wallow in our own self pity)

6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I have seen 12 Whorethorn Flags!!

(They will go close again this year, whilst we wallow in our own self pity)

Being a Hawthorn supporter is a step too far. Don't know many good ones

4 minutes ago, BW511 said:

Being a Hawthorn supporter is a step too far. Don't know many good ones

Agreed!! I have no wish to be one

12 + 12 would have been MUCH Better

16 minutes ago, Bay Riffin said:

Tom McDonald, Harmes, Oliver, Brayshaw, Petracca, Melksham. 

You think these players have improved under Fraudwin?

All of them?

Really?

Just now, ding said:

You think these players have improved under Fraudwin?

All of them?

Really?

Petracca marginally

16 hours ago, GCDee said:

Absolutely... I really cannot remember a team which dominates most games they play in the key stats, i50s, clearance & contested ball.. yet cannot win consistently or put teams away. 

I really do hang onto the hope that we are 1 step away from making it click but this frustration is really getting old. We need to make this work and fast, we already have an entire generation of fans embarrassed to support the dees as we have been dog [censored] for over a decade. There will be no supporters left if we need to rebuild again.

 

Actually, over half a century.

I remember going to the football in the late 60s and 70s and being embarrassed not just by our poor performances but by the complete lack of passion among our sparse numbers of supporters. I seem to recall we didn't even have a cheer squad in those days. 

At least if we're winning some of the key stats it means we have something worth watching, including the knowledge that we might be able to convert that into a win. It's not that long ago we didn't even have that to enjoy. I'm not trying to disparage the guy, but in the Neeld years, most games were over by quarter time with no chance of us ever getting back into them.

2 hours ago, ding said:

You think these players have improved under Fraudwin?

All of them?

Really?

they all showed significant improvement under Goodwin yes.

11 minutes ago, Bay Riffin said:

they all showed significant improvement under Goodwin yes.

Since Goodwin took over in 2017:...... ( I know stats are not everything, but they can certainly be helpful when comparing year to year results)

 

Tom McDonald has gone backwards in practically every statistic, other than his one goal-kicking spike in 2018 (From which he has gone WAY backwards. His confidence is shot, and he is currently a liability in the team

Tom McDonald has not improved.

James Harmes improved pretty much all of his stats in 2018, but did not improve on those last year. 

James Harmes has improved, but stagnated last year. (Like most did tbh)

Clayton Oliver played his first full season of games in 2017 after playing only 13 in 2016.

Went backwards last year, like most did stats-wise. 

Clayton Oliver has improved , but stagnated last year. 

Jake Melkshams first year back from peptide suspension was also the first year of Goodwins solo tenure. Makes him a bit harder to judge, especially when comparing his Essendon days, where he played in a different position. His stats in 2017 were very similar to his last year at Essendrug, other than the spike in Goal kicking as he went forward. Naturally that stat is one you would have expected to increase from his time in defence at the Bombers. His last 2 years output has not matched his last year at Essendon.

As much as i love him, Jake Melksham has probably not improved.

Christian Petracca is an interesting one. He had spike upwards in 2018 when the whole team was up, from which he returned to almost identical stats of the previous year. 2019

2019 for Trac was a repeat of 2017. He has started this year in reasonable fashion, but the pre-season hype ( Which i was also feeling) has not translated YET to dominating during regular season matches.

Christian Petracca has improved, but has still not taken that next step under Goodwin.

So you are probably right about 3 of them having improved under Simple Simon, but 2 of them were kids in their first FULL season when Simon took over. I dont think the Coach can start patting himself on the back about those 2 just yet.

Sample size for this year is just too small for anyone to say whether a player has improved or not this year, so i havent bothered to factor in much from this year, other than maybe saying that Trac has shown SOME signs of getting better.

Not much for Goodwin to hang his hat on is there? Maybe 3 players who have improved, and each of them arguably stagnated or went backwards last year.

I still think the Coach is a fraud.