POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Carlton

[Demonstone 23,426]

2 hours ago, dieter said:

You need to talk to Noah about floods.

If he's busy, you could also ask his wife, Joan of Ark.

[titan_uranus 25,209]

3 hours ago, Pates said:

It shouldn't be Smith's role to be going up as the third man there, Lever is the intercept defender, if May is bollocking his player properly to keep him out of the contest (legally of course) then it should set Lever up for an easy mark. Smith is then at ground level in case the ball goes to ground to mop up. Those shots I hope were very highly looked at by the backline because it's just laughable seeing our three KP defenders spoiling each other. 

I'm inclined to agree.

It's dangerous taking screenshots of play and then trying to extrapolate from them, but one thing that struck me was the angle both Smith and Lever were coming from. Lever's momentum appears to be shifting towards the boundary line, so his spoil would be in that direction. Smith is the opposite.

So maybe Lever had the higher percentage spoil option and Smith ought to have recognised that? Of course, I'm guessing neither of them saw the other one and both only were ball-watching, so they both independently thought they were the third man up.

[WA Demon Boy 966]

I almost want to see Omac back in purely because he wouldn't fly if Lever and May both do (I can see this happening again in the year time and time again).  Omac cops a lot of heat (yes I lash him too) but sometimes you just need those players who have 1 job and 1 job only and rarely is he totally destroyed and had bags kicked on him (additionally this year there isn't going to be crazy high scoring) + May and Lever come over and help to spoil/if he does have 2 kicked on him early we can make the change to May. 

Another thing is now that have May, Lever, Salem, Rivers, Harmes all down there - Omac doesn't need to kicking out of 50 (although his kick has improved) he just needs to have 1 job and that is wear the fwd like a glove, body them and compete. Ball hits the deck and it's almost a win. 

Smith is a see ball, fly, leap, do anything he can to have a crack at it at any cost. You can't play this way down back. Happy to play him off the bench and then up forward, but I can't see him playing every game down back nor do I want him too. Would love to know if he enjoys playing down there too.

Everyone can see athleticism it's just totally wasted right now down back.

It will be mind blowing if he plays down there even this week. 
 

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 11,019]

Having watched the game again on replay last night, my assessment is that post quarter time our ball movement out of the back half slaughtered us. 

A few main culprits that I recall:

*  Steven May's kick-ins were atrocious

*  Langdon pushed up the ground well to receive, but turned it straight back over with his kicking

*  Smith just hack kicks it or kicks to a pack.  I have rarely seen him reliability find targets in all the games he has played.

*  No one seemed to target big Max at the kick-ins.

Add to the above that from the second quarter onwards and really pressed up and positioned well behind their forward 50 arc and we just kept turning it back over to them between half back/wing and playing the game in their forward half.  Also seemed to be a lack of half forwards pushing up to provide an outlet option all too often.  All of this should be quite fixable and I don't think May is going to have the shocking game he did kick-in wise too often. 

The few guys I thought did bring the ball out of defense well were Salem and Rivers, but no real surprises there.

Our multiple uncoordinated flying for spectacular marks by May and Smith as well as the well documented spoiling of one another all made for an incredibly dysfunctional backline.  I

f it wasn't for big Max's usual great positioning and marking behind the ball, we would have been completely stuffed.

[Skuit 10,031]

7 hours ago, bing181 said:

The setup before this as the ball came in was fine. It's just that Smith and Lever made the wrong decision. Though moreso Smith, you feel that Lever coming in across May/McKay would have easily cleared the ball, it's something he's good at. But with Smith crashing in from the left, Lever didn't get to the ball, which under Smith's momentum spilled right.

 

 

This is a great shot Bing. Demonstrates how difficult footy is and how important back-line cohesion is. Swap the colours and the outcome to an intercept mark and everyone is annoyed that our boys didn't compete and held off looking for a cheapie.

Split-second decisions. 

We were playing in front. 

How many games have these three played together in the back-line? 

Smith first game down back in however long?

I know it has been going on for years. 

Here's the thing. Everyone is angry that Goodwin and co. haven't coached it out of them. But the anti-Goodwin brigade should be even angrier, furious even - he has been coaching it into them. 

At least on three occasions over the past couple years I can recall players saying that Goodwin has told them to back themselves to leave their man and get across. 

He wants most of this to happen. We just need to be better at it. And hopefully gel and trust. 

Would love to watch the footage again and see if there was any hesitation from any of ours. It's a bold move to fly while your man stays on the ground and needs total confidence and commitment.  

[layzie 34,375]

On 6/17/2020 at 8:14 AM, Dee Zephyr said:

One of our main problems I believe layzie, especially when momentum is with the opposition. Seen teams do it against us time after time when we dominate possession but struggle to do it ourselves. 

After two rounds we are in the bottom 2 for contested marking. Lever, May, T Mac and Max 1 contested mark between them so far.

We took 6 against Carlton.

Trac -2....Hunt -1.....Salem -1.....Fritta-1 ....ANB -1.

Really is an indictment when you consider those names we have. We just get slaughtered in the air time and time again. 

[Watts the matter 1,235]

On 6/17/2020 at 10:27 PM, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Having watched the game again on replay last night, my assessment is that post quarter time our ball movement out of the back half slaughtered us. 

A few main culprits that I recall:

*  Steven May's kick-ins were atrocious

*  Langdon pushed up the ground well to receive, but turned it straight back over with his kicking

*  Smith just hack kicks it or kicks to a pack.  I have rarely seen him reliability find targets in all the games he has played.

*  No one seemed to target big Max at the kick-ins.

Add to the above that from the second quarter onwards and really pressed up and positioned well behind their forward 50 arc and we just kept turning it back over to them between half back/wing and playing the game in their forward half.  Also seemed to be a lack of half forwards pushing up to provide an outlet option all too often.  All of this should be quite fixable and I don't think May is going to have the shocking game he did kick-in wise too often. 

The few guys I thought did bring the ball out of defense well were Salem and Rivers, but no real surprises there.

Our multiple uncoordinated flying for spectacular marks by May and Smith as well as the well documented spoiling of one another all made for an incredibly dysfunctional backline.  I

f it wasn't for big Max's usual great positioning and marking behind the ball, we would have been completely stuffed.

Interesting, I watched the last quarter again and Max lost his feet on 4 or 5 occasions way too easily. Got very lucky on one occasion and got a free kick when Casboult outbodied him. I think he was as much of the problem as anyone in the last quarter.

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

5 hours ago, Watts the matter said:

Interesting, I watched the last quarter again and Max lost his feet on 4 or 5 occasions way too easily. Got very lucky on one occasion and got a free kick when Casboult outbodied him. I think he was as much of the problem as anyone in the last quarter.

IMO it's not coincidence that we did better when Pederson was at the club.

He gave us run and hard at it contests and mark and lay off,  and he kept his bloody feet.  Flagples are only as good as they're foundations allow them.  Hence why I mentioned 2 Meter Peter,  some time back, because of his stout shape and solid build.

 

We do not have any big forwards that I can see,  who can hit hard & willingly crash packs naturally,  like St Pedo could do. 

This is why I am such a fan, of what  Clark Keating did in those Lions Premierships of the early 2000's. 

"The September Specialist"    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clark_Keating

 

And I wonder if its why we at Melbourne has never done well in premierships with the star rucks we've had,  over the recent decades.

Look at Richmond's recent premierships, and their rucks.

Look at the rucks Melbourne had under Smithy.?

 

I just reckon a Ruckmans most valuable job is to crash bodies, and packs,   and to take numerous pack marks around the ground.

 

And Keating's ruck partner in those teams,  was another crash and bash ruck.  >>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Charman

 

It is not a coincidence.

Edited June 20, 2020 by MyFavouriteMartian

[Pennant St Dee 13,412]

On 6/17/2020 at 5:51 PM, MyFavouriteMartian said:

I think I'd prefer Smith to go up to spoil,  out of Smith and Lever.

I'd prefer Lever to gather the spoils,  and have the ball in his hands and his mind,  to choose and deliver it.  Dare I say it,  but Smith would be stronger than Lever.  And with Levers knee, I prefer him jump less.

 

 Smith is on the blues best crumber, defence 101 in this scenario is to be able to touch him at all times.

It's not actually that difficult 

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

1 minute ago, Pennant St Dee said:

 Smith is on the blues best crumber, defence 101 in this scenario is to be able to touch him at all times.

It's not actually that difficult 

Yeah, so switch the two defenders.

[Pennant St Dee 13,412]

Just now, MyFavouriteMartian said:

Yeah, so switch the two defenders.

No stay on your man, simple.

 

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

29 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

No stay on your man, simple.

 

No, that's not what i'm saying,  put Lever on the small.

Let Smith play the taller role, of these two defenders.

Edited June 20, 2020 by MyFavouriteMartian

[Stein9193 129]

On 6/13/2020 at 8:58 AM, stranga said:

If anyones happy with that yoire kidding yourself.  We have serious issues as long as goodwin is our coach 

A total joke