The Death of the Second Ruckman?

[Demonland 71,701]

 

[Diamond_Jim 12,555]

the second ruck died years ago. It always is a player that can play another position and who can relief ruck.

The real debate is over the first ruck who cannot impact upon general play. It is apparent that the round the ground skills are valued well in excess of the ruck skills.

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,703]

I think it all depends on the caliber of players you have at your disposal. If we have Gawn and then Jackson becomes a star then you play both no matter what and build your game plan around that. If you don't have any great backup ruck option then you need to come up with your preferred structure. The risk is you lose your ruck man early in a game and then are left with an inferior ruck the whole game.

I would like to see our coaching team focus on playing to our strengths as opposed to trying to do what everyone else is doing.

[Engorged Onion 10,215]

I second what you say there @Collar-Jazz-Knee

From the 3min mark to see what an under used weapon we have in Max. 

Someone posted a couple of weeks ago re: Jeff White and his ability to thump the ball forward, I'd much prefer that than what feels has happened in 2019 whereby our midfield does not give Max reward for his excellent tap work (or perhaps its not excellent tap work, perhaps its poorly placed??)

 

 

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,691]

Goody has never liked a 2nd recognised ruckman in the team. Pruessy was only ever used last year out of necessity.

This is will only effect a team like West Coast going Forward.

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,691]

1 hour ago, Collar-Jazz-Knee said:

I think it all depends on the caliber of players you have at your disposal. If we have Gawn and then Jackson becomes a star then you play both no matter what and build your game plan around that. If you don't have any great backup ruck option then you need to come up with your preferred structure. The risk is you lose your ruck man early in a game and then are left with an inferior ruck the whole game.

I would like to see our coaching team focus on playing to our strengths as opposed to trying to do what everyone else is doing.

First look at Jacko going forward he will be able to compete alot more and is more agile than your ordinary 2nd Ruck traditionally.

Could easily hold down a 2nd or 3rd tall position in the Forward line and Pinch hit in the Ruck going Forward.

 

[Diamond_Jim 12,555]

Jackson, Weideman and McDonald in the forward line.

In theory yes but on 2019 form of Weideman and McDonald....maybe not

Jackson will be seriously compromised by the absence of the VFL. In normal times he would have been rolled out around round 6 assuming Weid couldn't hold his place.

The debate however shows that unless the second ruckman can hold down a primary selection in another position there is no role for the second ruckman and hasn't been for years.

[hemingway 7,615]

All good comments. 

What we do know is that no team can afford to a big slow ruckman with limited skills and mobility. 

As stated by “collar” if you have two high quality ruckman who can also play a key position, it’s a different matter. That’s the beauty of having Jackson. 

[george_on_the_outer 7,589]

1 hour ago, Win4theAges said:

Goody has never liked a 2nd recognised ruckman in the team. Pruessy was only ever used last year out of necessity.

This is will only effect a team like West Coast going Forward.

....and Richmond ( Soldo, Nankervis)......hang on haven't WCE ( Lycett, Vardy and Nic Nat on sidelines) and Richmond won the past 3 Premierships playing 2 genuine ruckmen????

...and Collingwood, Adelaide and GWS playing only one genuine ruckman lost the GF?

[tiers 2,829]

If two ruckmen are to be played then both need to have the versatility to fill other roles. Even Maxie.

Unless and until we acquire a tall, mobile marking forward who can complement TMac then perhaps a tall not-so-mobile marking resting ruckman playing out of the forward pocket and presenting as a target could work. I recall the Jako 10 goal game against roos where Darren Bennett filled this role with aplomb.

Two talls are still valuable. It's up to the coaches to find their roles.

 

[Diamond_Jim 12,555]

The premise of the AFL article is that with 16 minute quarter the first ruck will not need a rest and thus no need for second ruck.

Not sure if it's right but it does mean as we keep saying the relief ruckman must justify their primary position.

Interesting aside I was just reading the Bomberblitz where they discussed each team's prospects in 2020. Safe to say they didn't rate us but one poster said that Godwin's gameplan is based on Hird's 2012-2013 gameplan.

https://discourse.bomberblitz.com/t/season-2020-melbourne/17443/2

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

9 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

the second ruck died years ago. It always is a player that can play another position and who can relief ruck.

The real debate is over the first ruck who cannot impact upon general play. It is apparent that the round the ground skills are valued well in excess of the ruck skills.

Tthe AFL again,  stopping rucks from wrestling one another at the boundary throw-ins.    And the line across the circle at centre bounces.

[Little Goffy 14,495]

That 16 minute quarter issue would suggest the best plan is not so much to have a relief ruckman as to just reduce the amout of cross-field running the primary ruckman has to go through.  So, I can see the value in having a ruck-ish forward up there to just bang the thing around when a clean tap is rare anyway with so much congestion

Plus there's less value to having them do their tall target thing when the ball has already been up forward long enough to see a stoppage.

If the ball is up there long enough for the primary ruckman to get to the stoppage without busting a gut, then great.  But otherwise, saving a ruckman a dozen 80m runs in a game could be the difference at a few late-game stoppages or getting into position for the classic match winning mark.