22 minutes ago, It's Time said:

DS living in Sydney I am very grateful for you and any others who go to the trouble to write up what they see at pre season training. It's really appreciated. However, I have to say I read them mainly to read who's training and not for most poster's opinions unless they are repeating info they've been directly given by the coaches or to a lesser extent the players. 

To state those players were ready to go just isn't logically correct. To be correct it would mean that you can miss up to 50% of the pre season sessions and it doesn't matter. Of course you can't be the same player without them. I went to pre season sessions in mid Dec and late Jan and from memory Trac and Gus were in rehab throughout that significant part of pre season. 

Roosy once discussed how little time the coaches have to actually train the players in the preseason. He said that if a player misses the conditioning work pre Christmas they never catch up and it heavily impacts their season. Post Christmas they have to concentrate on developing how they play and not  conditioning. Clearly if you line up the 2018 Clarry who's done all the sessions and the 2019 one the first one is going to stomp on the second one and that's born out by his stats and he was a lot less effected than Trac and Gus. It's a nonsense to dismiss that impact and think they are ready to go.  

 

Dusty Martin wasn't anywhere near fit and Tom Lynch looked like he just picked up a footy for the first time when they played early in the season and then ended up dominating finals. Guys can and do start the year underdone and improve if they are well managed and surrounded by fit and capable players. Petracca and Oliver were examples of that. I'm not saying they were 100% ready but they'd done enough to play and if surrounded by a fit side and well managed they'd improve through the year. Who knows the absolute minimum percentage but someone like Oliver is probably good enough to get a game on 50% assuming he's safely ticked the boxes in returning to training and playing practice games which he had. Limit game time, move him forward, have a fit side around him and he'd be fine.

Roos loves hard and fast rules that suit his agenda, it's never that easy. Every great side is going to have preseason and midseason injuries and these days even mid season draft picks. There's going to be guys coming in with no AFL preseason at all.

The performances of a few underdone guys was just one of so many problems that included guys who shouldn't even have been playing (Viney, Jones, Oscar), losing more players on the eve of the season and as it went on, lack of depth in the outside runners, insufficient training numbers for high intensity drills etc. 

2 hours ago, It's Time said:

However, I have to say I read them mainly to read who's training and not for most poster's opinions unless they are repeating info they've been directly given by the coaches or to a lesser extent the players. 

That is the only reason I read them as well.

6 hours ago, It's Time said:

DS living in Sydney I am very grateful for you and any others who go to the trouble to write up what they see at pre season training. It's really appreciated. However, I have to say I read them mainly to read who's training and not for most poster's opinions unless they are repeating info they've been directly given by the coaches or to a lesser extent the players. 

To state those players were ready to go just isn't logically correct. To be correct it would mean that you can miss up to 50% of the pre season sessions and it doesn't matter. Of course you can't be the same player without them. I went to pre season sessions in mid Dec and late Jan and from memory Trac and Gus were in rehab throughout that significant part of pre season. 

Roosy once discussed how little time the coaches have to actually train the players in the preseason. He said that if a player misses the conditioning work pre Christmas they never catch up and it heavily impacts their season. Post Christmas they have to concentrate on developing how they play and not  conditioning. Clearly if you line up the 2018 Clarry who's done all the sessions and the 2019 one the first one is going to stomp on the second one and that's born out by his stats and he was a lot less effected than Trac and Gus. It's a nonsense to dismiss that impact and think they are ready to go.  

 

Spot on. Elite sport requires elite preparation. Doing enough to get across the line to play isn't going to get it done when others have a heap of km's in their legs.

I posted my concerns about last preseason when it was obvious we would struggle:

15/2/2019: Not a bad time to be leaving by Misso given that we will reflect on all the injured / rehab players we have at the moment and those that re-injure if we don't make the finals this year. A real possibility unfortunately for those of us that are realists

21/12/2018: Of the 26 [in training] l counted roughly 8 that would be in our starting 22 which includes May. ... Numbers training are a continuing concern though

Edited January 7, 20205 yr by Demons1858

I’m surprised there is still any debate about the quality of our preseason last year - it seems very well established that it was not good for several reasons: surgeries, lack of continuity etc.

That said, I think last year could very well be the season we had to have. It exposed some deficiencies with our list (lack of outside run and spread, forward line structure etc), and perhaps also the collective (and individual) headspace of the players, coaches, administration and supporters alike.

These deficiencies appear to have been addressed following the end of our season. From an outsider’s perspective, I’m pleased with the way in which the club has approached these issues, and I personally feel confident about the year ahead. The players seem not to be taking anything for granted now, which I strongly suspect is a marked change from this time a year ago. This can only be a good thing.

Thanks to all who provide training reports - I read all of them with much enthusiasm following every training session.

 

Edited January 7, 20205 yr by Ron Burgundy

18 hours ago, Demons1858 said:

wasn't that hard to pick at all DS if you have been to a few training sessions before to compare with. if seasoned track watchers can't distinguish between the worst preseason a club has had in a long time and other preseasons then they are deliberately turning a blind eye or don't know much about the game

Bit harsh D1858. I was lucky to attend a few sessions late last year and as reported the contacts I had with "seasoned" reporters was fantastic. You cannot keep an eye on every player in every routine all the time. The reports we get are terrific because we get so many diverse views. None of our reporters are on the coaching panel and despite some of their intimate contacts are only making comments from their observations.

None of our reporters "turns a blind eye"  just comment from their perspective. Most of them "know more about the game" than most.

i appreciate their thoughts and welcome them all.

Training starts again this Friday 10 Jan at Gosches.Havespokento club to confirm.

26 minutes ago, dpositive said:

Bit harsh D1858. I was lucky to attend a few sessions late last year and as reported the contacts I had with "seasoned" reporters was fantastic. You cannot keep an eye on every player in every routine all the time. The reports we get are terrific because we get so many diverse views. None of our reporters are on the coaching panel and despite some of their intimate contacts are only making comments from their observations.

None of our reporters "turns a blind eye"  just comment from their perspective. Most of them "know more about the game" than most.

i appreciate their thoughts and welcome them all.

A harsh call l agree. l do appreciate the reports as well. This seasons reports are next level and have the stats about numbers in rehab and training etc to back up opinions. On reflection, my comment was directed more at one poster that l think deliberately misleads in reports to paint a rosy picture which l find disrespectful. PS stand by the fact it isn't that hard to identify the worst preseason our club has had in years if you have been to see other preseason to compare with

Edited January 7, 20205 yr by Demons1858

Players can run laps all pre-season but it is the contact drills and match sim where the 'football' fitness comes from and there is no substitute. Having the majority of the best 30 on the track for most of the sessions where the football fitness base is built is crucial. Only having 8 or so is a recipe for disaster, and we saw how it panned out.

On 1/7/2020 at 1:27 AM, rjay said:

On the club site now ... 

AFL training sessions

Date: Friday 10 January
Start time: 9.45am
Location: Gosch's Paddock

Can't make it down, busy keeping an eye on Tennis, Cricket, Basketball, NFL and the new emerging sport ember watching.

Im restricted from active fire fighting due to groin injury, now have a greater understanding of players frustration and attempts to play when injured..

training reports are a beacon for me so please don't hold back.

gonna be hot on Friday. 9:45 will probably be more like 8:30am in reality.

thanks in advance to anyone that posts their summaries or comments on here.  I'm hanging for any MFC info!!

4 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Dusty Martin wasn't anywhere near fit and Tom Lynch looked like he just picked up a footy for the first time when they played early in the season and then ended up dominating finals. Guys can and do start the year underdone and improve if they are well managed and surrounded by fit and capable players. Petracca and Oliver were examples of that. I'm not saying they were 100% ready but they'd done enough to play and if surrounded by a fit side and well managed they'd improve through the year. Who knows the absolute minimum percentage but someone like Oliver is probably good enough to get a game on 50% assuming he's safely ticked the boxes in returning to training and playing practice games which he had. Limit game time, move him forward, have a fit side around him and he'd be fine.

Roos loves hard and fast rules that suit his agenda, it's never that easy. Every great side is going to have preseason and midseason injuries and these days even mid season draft picks. There's going to be guys coming in with no AFL preseason at all.

The performances of a few underdone guys was just one of so many problems that included guys who shouldn't even have been playing (Viney, Jones, Oscar), losing more players on the eve of the season and as it went on, lack of depth in the outside runners, insufficient training numbers for high intensity drills etc. 

I wouldn't normally respond to a post like this but hey it's holidays in early Jan. You've now amended your opinion to say those players weren't ready but if they were in a team where everyone else was fit then all four of them could have been carried. Maybe you could carry two unfit players in the forward line like Dusty and Lynch and give them time to get fit but 4 players who make up the core of your engine room. I don't think so. Especially as you say surrounded by a team full of players with interrupted pre season. So not really sure of the point of your post. 

3 hours ago, It's Time said:

I wouldn't normally respond to a post like this but hey it's holidays in early Jan. You've now amended your opinion to say those players weren't ready but if they were in a team where everyone else was fit then all four of them could have been carried. Maybe you could carry two unfit players in the forward line like Dusty and Lynch and give them time to get fit but 4 players who make up the core of your engine room. I don't think so. Especially as you say surrounded by a team full of players with interrupted pre season. So not really sure of the point of your post. 

Dusty had, for him, a down year. Came  good with a vengeance in the finals. But as a forward really, with low average possession. And an impact player. So not being fully fit not such an issue.

For what it's worth I think benell, as a result of his fitness will play a similar role ie a dangerous mid size forward.

Lynch took time to build his tank but seemed to cover more ground by the end of the year. Though in all likelihood never reached optimal fitness. And agian an impact platlyer with low average possesions. If he has a big preseason will be huge for them this year. Let's hope our parallel is tmac.

Those two might have h was interrupted preseason but most of their list didn't. Which meant the list had a good fitness base and rgwy could better manage the impact of injury than us.

Edited January 8, 20205 yr by binman