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POSTMATCH: Rd 15 vs Brisbane

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1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

A lot is made of preseason injuries but we aren't the only ones.  Coll, Rich and a few others could claim loss of players in preseason or early season injuries. 

And, St Kilda had a bad run with preseason/early season outs.  McCartin, Hannebery, Carlisle, Stevens, Roberton, Geary.  All best 22.  Without counting, those 6 have probably missed as many if not more games than our missing best 6.  Yet they managed to win 6 games without them in the first half of the season and achieve a reasonable %.   And really their list is nowhere near as talented as ours.

Yesterday's smashing was because we had no physicality.  There was no ferocity, no real effort to tackle or put bodies on the line. Had we done those things we may still have lost but not thrashed. 

In a word, we were timid.

Referring back to preseason surgeries and injuries feeds the 'time will sort things out' narrative and papers over underlying issues.

I knew someone would reference the tigers, pies and saints. Yes they have had injuries but nothing even close to what we have experienced, as evidenced by that table that was commented on at length a few weeks ago with games of best 22 lost. And since then we lost Hibbard and jeffy for stretches.

In addition the tigers and pies had a good pre seasons. The saints not as good but again nothing even close to the horror show that was our preseason. And it is a cold hard fact acknowledged by no one at club land at the start of the season but everyone after it that clubs who have too many players not completing a high percentage of pre season sessions struggle all season to get their list fully fit.

Agree we were smashed in the contest yesterday but the fact remains they have their whole list, barring 2 players, fit and firing and we still have 5 of our best 22 out and any number of players playing not at full fitness.

Facts are facts. Take zorko, neale, Andrews, Robinson and Cameron out of that side and and add 4 or 5 players coming back from lay offs and we probably win that game.

Edited by binman
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3 minutes ago, binman said:

I knew someone would reference the tigers, pies and saints. Yes they have had injuries but nothing even close to what we have experienced, as evidenced by that table that was commented on at length a few weeks ago with games of best 22 lost. And since then we lost Hibbard and jeffy for stretches.

In addition the tigers and pies had a good pre seasons. The saints not as good but again nothing even close to the horror show that was our preseason. And it is a cold hard fact acknowledged by no one at club land at the start of the season but everyone after it that clubs who have too many players not completing a high percentage of pre season sessions struggle all season to get their list fully fit.

Agree we were smashed in the contest yesterday but the fact remains they have their whole list, barring 2 players, fit and firing and we still have 5 of our best 22 out and any number of players playing not at full fitness.

Facts are facts. Take zorko, neale, Andrews, Robinson and Cameron out of that side and and add 4 or 5 players coming back from lay offs and we probably win that game.

Could you tell me our equivalent of

Zorko

Neale

Andrews

Robinson

Cameron    who are not playing. 

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15 minutes ago, binman said:

I knew someone would reference the tigers, pies and saints. Yes they have had injuries but nothing even close to what we have experienced, as evidenced by that table that was commented on at length a few weeks ago with games of best 22 lost. And since then we lost Hibbard and jeffy for stretches.

In addition the tigers and pies had a good pre seasons. The saints not as good but again nothing even close to the horror show that was our preseason. And it is a cold hard fact acknowledged by no one at club land at the start of the season but everyone after it that clubs who have too many players not completing a high percentage of pre season sessions struggle all season to get their list fully fit.

Agree we were smashed in the contest yesterday but the fact remains they have their whole list, barring 2 players, fit and firing and we still have 5 of our best 22 out and any number of players playing not at full fitness.

Facts are facts. Take zorko, neale, Andrews, Robinson and Cameron out of that side and and add 4 or 5 players coming back from lay offs and we probably win that game.

If its the table I think you are referring to it was total games lost to injury not to the best 22.  The likes of Nietschke, Walker, Chandler, Smith are a considerable part of our total games lost. 

Of the Saints players I mentioned I think only one had a reasonable preseason:  Geary.  The rest little.

Doubt we will agree binman.

Edited by Lucifer's Hero

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21 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

If its the table I think you are referring to it was total games lost to injury not to the best 22.  The likes of Nietschke, Walker, Chandler, Smith are a considerable part of our total games lost. 

Of the Saints players I mentioned I think only one had a reasonable preseason:  Geary.  The rest little.

Doubt we will agree binman.

No it was total games lost to the nominal best 22. We have also had a shocking run with players who are not in our best 22.

We had 15 players have post season surgery. I5. Must have been like an episode of MASH.

Edited by binman
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1 minute ago, binman said:

No it was total games lost to the nominal best 22. We have also had a shocking run with players who are not in our best 22.

Injury Ladder - Total Games

Is there another table?

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32 minutes ago, Sorry kids said:

Could you tell me our equivalent of

Zorko

Neale

Andrews

Robinson

Cameron    who are not playing. 

Sure.

Melksham is in our best 5 as is lever (well should be). So they are the way a l of zorko and neale (who are top 5 for lions). The melk is massively important given our struggles kicking inside 50.

Jeffy not near Cameron but important given we have no other small forwards

Vanders  easily the equal of Robinson for importance.

And given our forward woes Smith a big out. So not far of the relative game of Andrews.

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23 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Came down to a few things:

Gawn getting injured

Getting smashed in the middle/Clearances

Hipwood’s 15 minutes of fame.

 

Shocking skill errors as well truth be told. From weid dropping sitters to Gus I have no idea where Im handballing to.

With the continued exceptions of Gawn, salem and Harmes perhaps a couple more, the rest of the team need a huge kick up the bs.

As soon as I saw Tmac on tv pregame talk about his new form I had my worries.

Also how long do we have to wait for weid to become a good forward?

Finally, why is Goodwin so inflexible?

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39 minutes ago, Sorry kids said:

Could you tell me our equivalent of

Zorko

Neale

Andrews

Robinson

Cameron    who are not playing. 

Agree with all bar Robinson. 

Whilst he's important, he is not in the class of the others on that list. 

Zorko, Neale, Cameron and Andrews are all better than any like-for-like player we have. 

May might have Andrews covered for the moment, but he is the best young kp back in the league along with Darcy Moore. 

 

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1 hour ago, pitmaster said:

Terrible the kneejerk responses on this site.

Some perspective: we have had the absolute worst by a big margin injury list this year. Players come back but it takes time to get match fit and new players to the club need time to settle. 

Brisbane has the least injuries of any club. Only one player (Cutler) is currently not available. They are settled, well coached I admit and well lead, but they know one another's games. Our blokes are second guessing about one third of their teammates.

Hipwood has played 66 games and usually stuffs up at least half his disposals. He averages 1.5 goals a game. He kicked five. Too bad. He kicked like a donkey a few weeks ago and cost them the game. This time he didn't. Our lousy luck. Weid had played 29 games for just under one goal a game. Get off his back. It's too soon to make a call on him.

Having said that I really cannot credit this week's lack of midfield attack but bad games happen. These are the times to stay staunch. 

Injuries are path of the course and yes we have had our fair share but they are no excuse for players continually missing a handball target, kicking to the opposition, dropping a chest mark under no pressure, hand balling to a player who has 2 or 3 opposition players on his tail and playing on at all cost with nothing to go to. 

Thats just dumb football and we are head of the class in that department. 

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5 minutes ago, binman said:

Sure.

Melksham is in our best 5 as is lever (well should be). So they are the way a l of zorko and neale (who are top 5 for lions). The melk is massively important given our struggles kicking inside 50.

Jeffy not near Cameron but important given we have no other small forwards

Vanders  easily the equal of Robinson for importance.

And given our forward woes Smith a big out. So not far of the relative game of Andrews.

So  you have

Zorko      Melksham

Lever       Neale

Jeffy      Cameron

Vanders Robinson

Smith     Andrews.

We will just have to disagree. Not one of our five are stars. Neale, Andrews and maybe Zorko are probably All Australian

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As the game wore on, all I wanted to see was our mids put Brisbane's under pressure. I didn't care if it degenerated into total ugly and forget talk of our forward line, the ease with which they constantly exited congestion was where we lost the game. Do our much vaunted midfield think the defensive stuff is below them?

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16 minutes ago, Sorry kids said:

So  you have

Zorko      Melksham

Lever       Neale

Jeffy      Cameron

Vanders Robinson

Smith     Andrews.

We will just have to disagree. Not one of our five are stars. Neale, Andrews and maybe Zorko are probably All Australian

You're right that 5 beat the 5 we have out. At the moment

 I should have picked 5 different players. My point is we have 5 of our best 22 out. And if you took 5 of their best 5 out they would struggle. 

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2 minutes ago, binman said:

You're right that 5 beat the 5 we have out. At the moment

 I should have picked 5 different players. My point is we have 5 of our best 22 out. And if you took 5 of their best 5 out they would struggle. 

Fair enough. I see your point.

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2 hours ago, Sorry kids said:

All ok Onion.  Footy Clubs are interesting places as we all know. Something is not right this year. I have no idea what that really is but can imagine some of the rumblings. I just find it strange the silence from players around the second rate, no way beyond second rate, facility that is Goschs paddock. Hats off to the supporters that get to training, but you could not criticize anyone who does not want to stand in that windswept park. Forgetting the players for a moment, how many supporters are disadvantaged by the facility. No decent cover, seating, or toilets, wheelchair access parking nearby, questionable location for women and the elderly safety. All this contributes to a lack of club inclusiveness and atmosphere. I am sure of one thing players get a lift when they have good support at training. It is human nature. 

On a positive the best two things I  ever saw as a Dee supporters was a full stadium , I think it was at the Junction, welcome to correct me the Thursday before our first finals appearance in 87. I have never seen the camaraderie, before our since and our  lap around the G before the game two days later.

The other day I took my son to the Demon Shop and he bought the indigenous guernsey. I took him past Goschs and he wanted to get out and watch but after doing two laps (up Punt Rd, U-turn, left on to Swan st and back again)  could not find anywhere close to park and get out. So we had to give it a miss.

It's not like I'd go there every week but for those who do want to go or drop past occasionally it's close to impossible

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On 6/30/2019 at 6:05 PM, At the break of Gawn said:

Came down to a few things:

Gawn getting injured

Getting smashed in the middle/Clearances

Hipwood’s 15 minutes of fame.

 

Petty was a heartbreaker in those 20 or so minutes! 

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47 minutes ago, binman said:

Sure.

Melksham is in our best 5 as is lever (well should be). So they are the way a l of zorko and neale (who are top 5 for lions). The melk is massively important given our struggles kicking inside 50.

Jeffy not near Cameron but important given we have no other small forwards

Vanders  easily the equal of Robinson for importance.

And given our forward woes Smith a big out. So not far of the relative game of Andrews.

You're comparing Joel Smith to Harris Andrews? You've gotta be kidding me.

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7 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You're comparing Joel Smith to Harris Andrews? You've gotta be kidding me.

 

I was waiting for the Oscar/Andrews comparison.

 

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13 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You're comparing Joel Smith to Harris Andrews? You've gotta be kidding me.

No, not in terms of where they are at as players but as i say Smith is an important out. Not as big an out as Andrews would be but we cannot mark the ball or bring it ground in our forward line and Smith was 100% locked in out best 22 and looked terrific in the preseason before his injury. And who knows might have a had a break out season and been a total gun. 

But how about comparing Lever to Andrews? That works does it not?

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1 hour ago, Sorry kids said:

So  you have

Zorko      Melksham

Lever       Neale

Jeffy      Cameron

Vanders Robinson

Smith     Andrews.

We will just have to disagree. Not one of our five are stars. Neale, Andrews and maybe Zorko are probably All Australian

Lever is not a star ? Jeez i hope you are wrong as we certainly paid a far bit for him and recruited him because he was star.

If you believe some posters on DL (one in particular) you'd have thought we'd recruited a lock for multiple AAs and future all time great defender.

Edited by binman

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7 minutes ago, binman said:

Lever is not a star ? Jeez i hope you are wrong as we certainly paid a far bit for him and recruited him because he was star.

If you believe some posters on DL (one in particular) you'd have thought we'd recruited a lock for multiple AAs and future all time great defender.

He may become a star and I hope so too hope  but made a name as a young third defender. We paid overs for him

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6 minutes ago, Sorry kids said:

He may become a star and I hope so too hope  but made a name as a young third defender. We paid overs for him

Jake Lever Career

Season Num MT Team K Avg H Avg D Avg M Avg HO Avg T Avg FF FA G Avg B SC Rat Avg
2019 8 1 Melbourne 10 10 6 6 16 16 7 7 0 0 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 65 65
2018 8 11 Melbourne 114 10.4 45 4.1 159 14.5 54 4.9 0 0 18 1.6 13 7 0 0 0 0 658 59.8
2017 6 20 Adelaide 208 10.4 112 5.6 320 16 125 6.3 1 0.1 35 1.8 30 19 1 0.1 1 7 1344 67.2
2016 6 24 Adelaide 248 10.3 130 5.4 378 15.8 124 5.2 0 0 24 1 17 25 2 0.1 3 15 1429 59.5
2015 6 12 Adelaide 108 9 56 4.7 164 13.7 60 5 1 0.1 14 1.2 7 10 0 0 0 0 650 54.2
Totals   68   688 10.1 349 5.1 1037 15.2 370 5.4 2 0 92 1.4 68 62 3 0 4 22 4146 61

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26 minutes ago, Sorry kids said:

He may become a star and I hope so too hope  but made a name as a young third defender. We paid overs for him

Jury is definitely still out about Twiggy Lever.

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21 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Nah that's rubbish. Hipwood was the difference today, if TMac or Weird could play with his presence we win.

We lack composure, play on at all costs can work but not if you start moving before even checking to see what's ahead of you. We sell our teammates into trouble and have no options forward of the ball because we don't have the intelligence to hold things up for a couple of seconds here or there.

We fixed this last week vs Fremantle and it looked good.

Was it the players failing to implement those changes this week? Was it the way Brisbane played which encouraged us to play fast and aggressive? Or was it coaching?

I suspect it was the players failing to suppress the instinct we've drilled into them over the last 18 months to play on repeatedly.

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We are club full of excuses,,, bottom line tigers & gws have had long in

3 hours ago, binman said:

Look at the 5 clubs with most injuries... tigers, gws still in the top 8 with Swans starting to win more... All 3 have stronger deeper lists along with stronger cultures ... Melb & Saints both hold longest premiership droughts & poor cultures .., enough said 

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