2 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Yeah, nothing disgraceful at all about his clear lack of professionalism and maturity towards the club and the standards they have put in place.

Before you act like a [censored], remember this works both ways.

It's crazy, you would think the coaches had some kind of vendetta against him the way people are carrying on. How about some accountability on jacks part? How about treating the club and your teammates with respect by doing "whatever it takes" to get the results we crave. Being "nice" doesn't always make up for disrespecting your club through lack of preparation, application etc 

51 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

Goodwin, Jones and now Mahoney have all come out to discuss "Watts" lacking from Watts, 9 yrs/150 games etc etc. If you're riding Goody for lack of professionalism then throw the other 2 in, who have not been accused of that before.

Maybe.. just maybe it sits with the player.. contract or not.

This is not some random, off the cuff, emotional outburst. A clearly thought plan, from the club, to see "if this will get him to give 100%."

 

Surely, they knew this when they signed him on for another 3 yr deal???

Bottom line, is he in our best 22??

And if yes then Goodwin and coaching cohort are brandishing a stick which has the effect of an icy pole stick!

I reckon its just not the players that have Ego's! 

"Let he who is without weakness cast the first stone"!

Sounds to me like MFC inability to make finals in 2017 is down to JW 

Messy and unprofessional MFC! 

8 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Surely, they knew this when they signed him on for another 3 yr deal???

Bottom line, is he in our best 22??

And if yes then Goodwin and coaching cohort are brandishing a stick which has the effect of an icy pole stick!

I reckon its just not the players that have Ego's! 

"Let he who is without weakness cast the first stone"!

Sounds to me like MFC inability to make finals in 2017 is down to JW 

Messy and unprofessional MFC! 

I can't work out if you're a troll or just overly dramatic 

2 hours ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

This has become a really shitty and ugly situation.

It's no longer just whether or not Watts should stay or go it's how  does the MFC emerge from this  fiasco with any pretensions to be being honourable or professional.

The club has handled this very poorly.

And here was I thinking we had left this type of fiasco style of player management behind post PJ & new board ?

1 hour ago, Dr.D said:

People worried about Watts playing a blinder against us? He had 2 blinders in his 150 games, lol! He'll be delisted in 2 seasons. Another feather in Goodwins cap.

LOL Very funny. You and the other doc have sure got Jack in the gun.

 

36 minutes ago, Grapeviney said:

Nothing’s hit the fan.

Those discomfited by the Watts situation should be reassured by the Lever endorsement.

At the same time the club is trying to move on a player with questionable standards and preparation, another player with those qualities in spades - one of the competition’s most promising youngsters - has declared he won’t play anywhere but at Melbourne. 

Far from undermining the culture that Roos started building, Goodwin is strengthening it, and the players are 100 per cent behind him, evidenced by the fact that every single one of them has re-signed in the past 12-18 months.

Pity they weren't behind him in the last game of the season. 

2 hours ago, rpfc said:

Ruthless? Perhaps.

But is ruthlessness always such a public flogging? Of an asset you are trying to move? That has two years left on a contract he signed 12 months ago?

We can make tough decisions and not force someone into a very public corner.

 

And this altar of preparedness and commitment that we are currently slaying Watts on - where was it when we re-signed him? Eight years of bad habits and we think it will all change in the ninth? Or did it suddenly get worse? And if it did - why did it get better under Roos? Do that again...

I honestly don't see how anyone can see this as 'a good club doing what good clubs do'...

He had a career year in 2016 (not a "great" year but a good year nonetheless)

Signs a 3 year contract

Comes back in less than ideal condition after being content with his 2016 performance 

Makes amends after copping public criticism about his preparedness

Has a decent 2017 recapturing his form of 2016

Gets injured

A 2 week injury takes 4 weeks to return to senior footy due to his lack of preparation 

On return from injury he stinks it up against Port dropping chest marks, fumbling easy balls and having 9 disposals (the fewest for the MFC on the day)

He has a couple more poor efforts notabky against North in Tas

He gets dropped to Casey and returns for the final H&A game against the Pies where he is allegedly one of our better players (I haven't seen most of this game so can't comment)

That timeline seems pretty self explanatory and that's only the last 12 months - obviously the coaches/FD thought he'd turned the corner and then cracked it when he returned to preseason training last year. There's plenty of anecdotes about him liking the footy lifestyle, going out for beers 3 or 4 times a week etc. The coaches don't want guys like Petracca, Oliver, Hogan etc falling in to those bad habits, they want them to follow the lead of Viney and Jones who push themselves to the limit to get the best out of themselves.

Seriously, do people think Goodwin et al are gonna cut off their nose to spite their face just because of a perceived personality clash? Here's a novel idea maybe Watts actually has had a role to play in this and he's not just the innocent victim of a bastard coach. If Goodwin thought Watts would contribute to our rise up the ladder and our push for a flag don't you think he'd keep him around? Or do you honestly think hes that stupid that he would push him out just because he doesn't like him selling board shorts to hipsters?

 

Polish. Think of a painter painting your house. He works hard sanding and preparing the areas to be painted. (Jones). Then there is the final phase, the finish. If paintwork is  shoddy after all the preparation you would not be pleased but if the painter (Watts) finishes the job perfectly you will be happy. We must not lose our polish (skill) we cannot afford it. Sadly, we are still light on for finishers. Hope you stay Jack and for heavens sake don't let us see you in a black and white jumper with your old mates Lynden and Jeremy.

5 minutes ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

Polish. Think of a painter painting your house. He works hard sanding and preparing the areas to be painted. (Jones). Then there is the final phase, the finish. If paintwork is  shoddy after all the preparation you would not be pleased but if the painter (Watts) finishes the job perfectly you will be happy. We must not lose our polish (skill) we cannot afford it. Sadly, we are still light on for finishers. Hope you stay Jack and for heavens sake don't let us see you in a black and white jumper with your old mates Lynden and Jeremy.

 

6 minutes ago, Goodvibes said:

 

That quote just sums up 85 pages in one hit

superb work Vibes

14 minutes ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

Polish. Think of a painter painting your house. He works hard sanding and preparing the areas to be painted. (Jones). Then there is the final phase, the finish. If paintwork is  shoddy after all the preparation you would not be pleased but if the painter (Watts) finishes the job perfectly you will be happy. We must not lose our polish (skill) we cannot afford it. Sadly, we are still light on for finishers. Hope you stay Jack and for heavens sake don't let us see you in a black and white jumper with your old mates Lynden and Jeremy.

I understand this angst from people about losing one of our better skilled players but the fact is in modern footy you can't pick and choose and say "Jonesy does the fundamentals, Watts is there to finish off the good work" you need every singke player in the squad contributing to the fundamentals, one weak link will be picked apart by the best teams and the whole team structure will collapse.

That is without even considering the main issues raised which seem to be related to his off field preparation and the example he sets for the younger guys as a senior player (whether in the leadership group or not). If he has continued to coast along despite instructions from the coaches and feedback from his peers do you think we should let him get away with it because he plays ok every other game? Colin Sylvia v2 if that's the case.

2 hours ago, No10 said:

Yes, Watts had a poor final game. But so did Jones.

What's the message they're sending? Maybe they should trade out Jones too? I'd argue he's the one I look to step up and lead in those games we must win.

We had many experienced players who were also off that day, in particular Big M, T-Mac and Tyson.  They were each poor on the day yet have seemingly been let off unscathed.  Such a great message for the young blokes and these under performers!  Let's crucify Watts while the others who under performed on the day can go back to being mediocre and fly under the radar.  Great coaching and culture that ?

There were only 6 players from the MFC who scored 90 or more super coach points on the day.  The Pies had 9. 

Our top 6 were..........

Clarry 117 (i wonder who's gonna win the Bluey!)

Tracc 105

Garlett 100

Lewis  92

Watts  91

and Salem  90

Our bottom 5 (excluding Hogan inj.) were ....

Brayshaw  57

Peders 49

T-Mac 38

Hannan 38

and Harmes 37

Big M scored 67 & Tyson a 70, ranked 14th & 12th respectively.

 

 

Watts fan, but can understand how we got to this point with the lack of intent shown by Jack.  My bigger issue is with the club and why this wasn’t addressed earlier:

1- why offer a new contract a year ago?

2- if he isnt training hard enough, pull him aside and address the issue then and there. 

3- if he wasn’t playing by the team rules on game day, why did he constantly play in the seniors?

4- if you want contested style football, why does he still look like a beanpole? Should be 10kg heavier/stronger and bashing the opposition up. 

5- now if we get rid of him, who replaces him? Will this player kick 30+ goals?

6- if he is in a rut/cycle, wouldn’t it be the coaches job to assist to change the environment to break the cycle?

 

1 hour ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Time to try something different. A bit of tough love for the lads.

Jack's never been a fan of tough love. He loved his time with Roosy because he was mollycoddled. The moment Roos took his exit, Watts throws it in by turning up to pre-season in poor shape. How's that for professional SONS?

42 minutes ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

Polish. Think of a painter painting your house. He works hard sanding and preparing the areas to be painted. (Jones). Then there is the final phase, the finish. If paintwork is  shoddy after all the preparation you would not be pleased but if the painter (Watts) finishes the job perfectly you will be happy. We must not lose our polish (skill) we cannot afford it. Sadly, we are still light on for finishers. Hope you stay Jack and for heavens sake don't let us see you in a black and white jumper with your old mates Lynden and Jeremy.

Well done. 

22 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

We had many experienced players who were also off that day, in particular Big M, T-Mac and Tyson.  They were each poor on the day yet have seemingly been let off unscathed.  Such a great message for the young blokes and these under performers!  Let's crucify Watts while the others who under performed on the day can go back to being mediocre and fly under the radar.  Great coaching and culture that ?

There were only 6 players from the MFC who scored 90 or more super coach points on the day.  The Pies had 9. 

Our top 6 were..........

Clarry 117 (i wonder who's gonna win the Bluey!)

Tracc 105

Garlett 100

Lewis  92

Watts  91

and Salem  90

Our bottom 5 (excluding Hogan inj.) were ....

Brayshaw  57

Peders 49

T-Mac 38

Hannan 38

and Harmes 37

Big M scored 67 & Tyson a 70, ranked 14th & 12th respectively.

 

 

Hunt?

1 hour ago, Goodvibes said:

These are not facts. The quotes are real but your view of those quotes are opinions. Don't confuse the two. The bottom line is you don't think not training hard enough in pursuit of a premiership is a bid deal. I do. Particularly when the player in question has been at the club for 9 years.

It was a rut then inconsistent. I can quite Goodwin if you like. So things won’t change. Then ... 

Vince has had two poor years of turnovers and poor discipline. Going backwards. He cost us badly. Is he to be dumped. 

Tommy Mac makes poor decisions and clangers. No improvement there. His kick out to Cox in the final game was a joke. It happens far to often.  Is he to be dumped  

Tyson is always making poor decisions, turnover king and not turning into the a-grader we were hoping. Poor start and took time to get into ‘17. Is he to be dumped. 

Col Garland was poor in 2016 and injured all 2017. Not part of any premiership 22. 12-month contract to save him ?? Or Is he to be dumped. 

No dump the guy with a further 2 years to run, 9 years of loyalty, class, skill and goal kicking. 

ok admittedly im not a jack watts fan. he has infuriated me from the start with his soft football and to be honest I'm a bit surprised that people aren't glad for the trade.

I acknowledge that it maybe couldve been handled a bit better but at the end of the day goodwin doesnt want watts in the team and blind freddy can see its because he plays weak footy.  Its not jacks fault, he just doesnt have that killer instinct to tackle or chase with ferocity. you can't teach that and why does everyone go mute when we talk about this issue. 

if we make finals next year i'd trust watts to kick straight but i would never trust him to put his head over the footy or back into packs etc. his efforts in the phyical department are up there with cale morton

18 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

It was a rut then inconsistent. I can quite Goodwin if you like. So things won’t change. Then ... 

Vince has had two poor years of turnovers and poor discipline. Going backwards. He cost us badly. Is he to be dumped. 

Tommy Mac makes poor decisions and clangers. No improvement there. His kick out to Cox in the final game was a joke. It happens far to often.  Is he to be dumped  

Tyson is always making poor decisions, turnover king and not turning into the a-grader we were hoping. Poor start and took time to get into ‘17. Is he to be dumped. 

Col Garland was poor in 2016 and injured all 2017. Not part of any premiership 22. 12-month contract to save him ?? Or Is he to be dumped. 

No dump the guy with a further 2 years to run, 9 years of loyalty, class, skill and goal kicking. 

I'm interested in what you think Norm Smith would have made of Jack Watts.

3 hours ago, GoD's67 said:

Gawn was injured for 12 weeks, Hunt pole axed his head against the Crows and took a long while to recover, Watts also struggled with injury.

Vs

Oliver improved out of site! ANB & Petracca both improved.

Team improved wins & %.

It's not really my point to say Gawn or Hunt were not good this year, it's that Roos COULD claim to have taken talented players to the top level.

Unlike Oliver, Trac or ANB, those guys above and Watts all broke out after years of not quite fulfilling potential.

Roos certainly challenged Gawn pre-season. He protected Watts when the media questioned him.

If you listened to Roos being interviewed about Watts being up for trade, he said it clearly, it would be a mistake.

Watch Watts at Sydney next year.

1 hour ago, Dr.D said:

ok admittedly im not a jack watts fan. he has infuriated me from the start with his soft football and to be honest I'm a bit surprised that people aren't glad for the trade.

I acknowledge that it maybe couldve been handled a bit better but at the end of the day goodwin doesnt want watts in the team and blind freddy can see its because he plays weak footy.  Its not jacks fault, he just doesnt have that killer instinct to tackle or chase with ferocity. you can't teach that and why does everyone go mute when we talk about this issue. 

if we make finals next year i'd trust watts to kick straight but i would never trust him to put his head over the footy or back into packs etc. his efforts in the phyical department are up there with cale morton

Watts has been gone ever since Goody told him that he wasn't wanted, probably at his end of season review. I realised that long before most others here and I'm fine with it.

But I'm concerned with what's left behind. Our coaches seem to fetishise what Watts isn't good at, while totally disregarding what he is good at, which they've never once praised him for, at least in public. We apparently have standards of intensity or whatever that doesn't tolerate anything but the highest levels.

But every player has his weaknesses. There seems a massive tolerance for some players winning contested ball and then banging it anywhere, and for some players missing easy targets and causing turnovers or holding up a chain of uncontested possessions. That wouldn't be tolerated for long at a club with high standards - imagine repeatedly missing Hodge or Selwood by 5m on a 30m pass after they'd worked really hard to lose their tag and get into space.

So while we fetishise about one aspect of footy like no other club does, we are woefully slack about other aspects of footy (which, by the way, Watts happens to be very good at). I don't care what happens to Watts now, but how about seeing standards raised across the board? Players, even team leaders, who cost us by refusing to take care with their disposal should be sanctioned just as hard as those who don't improve their intensity. 

Why do our coaches tolerate poor or careless disposal? These guys are professionals, all they do in life is get paid to get their footy right. Why do we tolerate, say, 40-something i-50s in a game for 8 goals because we can't hit targets and our f50 entries are far too predictable??

And do our coaches know how to encourage and inspire their team to greater effort, or are they only able to slam them when they do something wrong?

Wherever Watts goes in 2018, these issues will stay with us unless we consider them important enough to do something about. Rather than bleating - only in the past 24 hours, mind you, that we fell short because "Watts set such a bad example to our younger players".

2 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

We had many experienced players who were also off that day, in particular Big M, T-Mac and Tyson.  They were each poor on the day yet have seemingly been let off unscathed.  Such a great message for the young blokes and these under performers!  Let's crucify Watts while the others who under performed on the day can go back to being mediocre and fly under the radar.  Great coaching and culture that ?

There were only 6 players from the MFC who scored 90 or more super coach points on the day.  The Pies had 9. 

Our top 6 were..........

Clarry 117 (i wonder who's gonna win the Bluey!)

Tracc 105

Garlett 100

Lewis  92

Watts  91

and Salem  90

Our bottom 5 (excluding Hogan inj.) were ....

Brayshaw  57

Peders 49

T-Mac 38

Hannan 38

and Harmes 37

Big M scored 67 & Tyson a 70, ranked 14th & 12th respectively.

 

 

Exactly. Exactly.

All the people here saying Goodwin is "sending a message"...

The message I hear is: "I'm not a good enough coach to get the best out of a talented player. AND I'm stupid enough to give him away for nothing"

Great message. Really impressed with the hard culture we're building here.

1 hour ago, Goodvibes said:

I'm interested in what you think Norm Smith would have made of Jack Watts.

I'm interested to know whether you think Norm Smith would have tolerated the deficiencies pointed out in the post you quoted. Or whether it's just what Watts is bad at that's holding the team back, so we can safely ignore everyone else's weaknesses and mistakes?

2 hours ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

Polish. Think of a painter painting your house. He works hard sanding and preparing the areas to be painted. (Jones). Then there is the final phase, the finish. If paintwork is  shoddy after all the preparation you would not be pleased but if the painter (Watts) finishes the job perfectly you will be happy. We must not lose our polish (skill) we cannot afford it. Sadly, we are still light on for finishers. Hope you stay Jack and for heavens sake don't let us see you in a black and white jumper with your old mates Lynden and Jeremy.

we are Melbourne supporters. we understand the stock market, not this tradie mumbo jumbo you allude to young chap

3 hours ago, Goodvibes said:

 

The 'lazy'Jack has produced many masterpieces on the footy field. Have a look at his highlights.

9 minutes ago, mattjm said:

we are Melbourne supporters. we understand the stock market, not this tradie mumbo jumbo you allude to young chap

Agreed. House painting? Commoner.

A young CEO given the reins of a new company. Within a year steps outside the knitting of what he's inherited and stamps his authority with a bold move in... OneTel.