1 hour ago, deejammin' said:

 

So who are we going to get to play 3rd forward and/or back up ruck for pick 29?

 

Petracca and Hannan can play Watts' role. Both are strong in the air or create a contest, which is one of Watts' failings.

And T Mac was a better backup ruck than Watts, although Watts was quite good as a follower.

1 minute ago, sue said:

or perhaps bored with sports cliches

Didn't find it cliche at all.

At least it wasn't 'It is what it is...'

 

59 minutes ago, deejammin' said:

So if Watts is going and is traded for pick 29, we are going for:

Hogan CHF/FF, TMac CHF/FF, Cam Pederson Link man/Back up ruck.

With Weiderman pushing for either Cam’s spot or TMacs forward spot.

Now I foresee a number of problems with this:

Cam Pederson is 30 approaching 31, having played 1 good season in the role he has to play. The end could come quickly or one bad injury could have him gone.

2: Weiderman does not play well as a link up man, he doesn’t get off his opponent and take marks off a lead and his field kicking and decision making at afl level are suspect, watch his kick to the forward line after his first possession against Brisbane late in the season if you need reminding. His skills are more in line with what Hogan and TMac do and at this stage it will be awhile before he is doing enough to surpass them at afl level. If he gets games through injury and is still playing like this year we are in trouble.

3. One or two injuries and we’re stuffed. If Hogan has another horrible year you will have TMac, Pederson and Weiderman. Lose two and we’re finding ourselves with no credible KPF and no back-up ruck. 

4. Our backline fails to fire and needs TMac or TMac’s KPF skills turn out to be a flash in the pan. Again you are relying on either Weiderman stepping up or a hear-to not on the list backup ruckman.

So who are we going to get to play 3rd forward and/or back up ruck for pick 29?

 

I think you are right that the losing Watts reduces our tall forwards as next off this list are T.Smith and Keilty. In saying that, some of our best wins this year were with a primarily short forward line which was used successfully for Richmond to win the premiership so I don't envisage too much doom and gloom.

With Lever confirmed, coaches have T.Mac earmarked for a role in the forward line and he has shown good form in the ruck. My hope is that Weids has a great offseason and Pederson is insurance next year.  

 

 

1 minute ago, jumbo returns said:

I'm uncomfortable about how this has been handled

Further, you need complexity and diversity in a team to reach success - each plays a role

The HooHah RahRah bs doesn't wash with me

Might work for some, but not all

Of course you do, but clearly Watts couldn't do it with any sort of consistency.

So we'll look elsewhere to fill those voids.

1 minute ago, jumbo returns said:

I'm uncomfortable about how this has been handled

Further, you need complexity and diversity in a team to reach success - each plays a role

The HooHah RahRah bs doesn't wash with me

Might work for some, but not all

I don't disagree with how it may have been handled, however what I would say is that there were some home truths told from both sides and as such I don't know how this situation could have proceeded smoothly.

The only way would have been if the club had remained silent and said nothing to anyone.

Would that have been the best outcome?

2 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Of course you do, but clearly Watts couldn't do it with any sort of consistency.

So we'll look elsewhere to fill those voids.

If I was Jack I would be peeved as he can no doubt see where the club is going and wants to be a part of it.

 

Just now, The Stigga said:

If I was Jack I would be peeved as he can no doubt see where the club is going and wants to be a part of it.

 

So would I, but in the end he only has himself to blame.

1 minute ago, The Stigga said:

If I was Jack I would be peeved as he can no doubt see where the club is going and wants to be a part of it.

 

'I can see where the club is going and i want to be a part of it' would've been a good mantra to repeat over and over while doing the extra yard on the training track and in rehab.

1 minute ago, Wiseblood said:

Of course you do, but clearly Watts couldn't do it with any sort of consistency.

So we'll look elsewhere to fill those voids.

According to the gospel of the FD (who some believe, 'in Goody we trust'), not the much harder challenge of bringing out the best in ALL players

But, these are old arguments - I'm done

Today I'm happy the club netted Lever, next week, I'll cry when Wattsy leaves - but, life goes on

No one wants  to pay a second rounder for him. Says it all really

Edited October 12, 20177 yr by Roost It

4 minutes ago, The Stigga said:

I don't disagree with how it may have been handled, however what I would say is that there were some home truths told from both sides and as such I don't know how this situation could have proceeded smoothly.

The only way would have been if the club had remained silent and said nothing to anyone.

Would that have been the best outcome?

I'm not sure Stigga

Would it have been conceivable to have a 'closed door' feedback session and given the home truths and one more year to improve?

Dunno...it's not my call, it never was

2 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

According to the gospel of the FD (who some believe, 'in Goody we trust'), not the much harder challenge of bringing out the best in ALL players

But, these are old arguments - I'm done

Today I'm happy the club netted Lever, next week, I'll cry when Wattsy leaves - but, life goes on

Why will you cry when an under performer with s track record of not preparing or working hard enough to get the best out of himself is finally let go Do you want success or pretty party boys to follow

Edited October 12, 20177 yr by Roost It

3 hours ago, GawnWithTheWind said:

I follow a few of the fitness staff on instagram, more so for training tips and to get an insight into how AFL athletes prepare than to peer into what the dees players are doing.

However, this morning one of them had Spencer, Trengove and watts in the Instagram story.

Good to see Watts in there working in his off-season, bad to see him just doing bicep curls. Curls will only help him look better in his shorts rather than becoming a better AFL athlete. Maybe I missed all of the functional stuff he did prior... but he looked pretty keen on making the guns bigger.

Good bait. The assumption of course being that the only thing he did was whatever was on the Instagram.

Time for a musical interlude...

 

Just now, jumbo returns said:

I'm not sure Stigga

Would it have been conceivable to have a 'closed door' feedback session and given the home truths and one more year to improve?

Dunno...it's not my call, it never was

How many one more years does Jacky boy get? My guess, none.

10 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Petracca and Hannan can play Watts' role. Both are strong in the air or create a contest, which is one of Watts' failings.

And T Mac was a better backup ruck than Watts, although Watts was quite good as a follower.

Trouble was that when Watts was in the ruck (and Hogan not playing) it just kept coming back from the forward line.

We could cover a defender but not a forward. 

1 minute ago, jumbo returns said:

I'm not sure Stigga

Would it have been conceivable to have a 'closed door' feedback session and given the home truths and one more year to improve?

Dunno...it's not my call, it never was

Yes but how many closed sessions and home truths have been given in the past decade?

I've got no doubt Roos gave him much more positive support, however I'm sure he also gave him much constructive feedback, he was dropped under Roos' watch as a 25 year old.

I don't think we are hanging him out to dry, its a two way straight.

There have been failings on both sides.

 

1 minute ago, Roost It said:

Why will you cry when an under performer with s track record of not preparing or working hard enough to get the best out of himself is finally let go

Because I believe his best footy with a SUCCESSFUL team is in front of him

Capitals for stressing a point, not yelling

Just now, jumbo returns said:

Because I believe his best footy with a SUCCESSFUL team is in front of him

Capitals for stressing a point, not yelling

The test of a person is how they respond to adversity. Jacks failed the test

7 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

Time for a musical interlude...

 

"If I go there will be trouble, and if I stay it will be double". Very prophetic.

8 minutes ago, Roost It said:

The test of a person is how they respond to adversity. Jacks failed the test

Who knows

As with every opinion, subjectivity rules

30 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Who knows

As with every opinion, subjectivity rules

How do you rate his alround performance in his 9 years

52 minutes ago, The Stigga said:

If I was Jack I would be peeved as he can no doubt see where the club is going and wants to be a part of it.

 

He should be more peeved with himself for being on the trade table. He should ask himself the question; “How did it come to this” 

1 hour ago, mo64 said:

Petracca and Hannan can play Watts' role. Both are strong in the air or create a contest, which is one of Watts' failings.

And T Mac was a better backup ruck than Watts, although Watts was quite good as a follower.

For us to improve Petracca has to play more midfield minutes next year. He’s not a bad link man but he’s no backup ruck and while he had some good days as a marking option he was also monstered by bigger backman a few times. Hannan took good marks in the forwardline but was rarely the one kicking it in. Also they were both in the team with Watts so I’m not sure how you replace him with people already playing?

1 hour ago, BigMacjnr said:

I think you are right that the losing Watts reduces our tall forwards as next off this list are T.Smith and Keilty. In saying that, some of our best wins this year were with a primarily short forward line which was used successfully for Richmond to win the premiership so I don't envisage too much doom and gloom.

With Lever confirmed, coaches have T.Mac earmarked for a role in the forward line and he has shown good form in the ruck. My hope is that Weids has a great offseason and Pederson is insurance next year.  

 

 

So if TMac or Gawn or heaven forbid both get injured what then? You rate Keilty and Smith higher than Watts? Cmon. I can see you don’t. Also I’d love Weideman to surpass Cam, but he needs to earn it and be developed properly in the VFL. He already cost us being gifted games he didn’t deserve this year. Without Watts we may be forced to play him even earlier next year purely due to bad luck with injury.

 

1 hour ago, Akum said:

Trouble was that when Watts was in the ruck (and Hogan not playing) it just kept coming back from the forward line.

We could cover a defender but not a forward. 

Yep, it lost us games. We kept getting it forward and not scoring particularly in the second half of the season with Watts and Hogan out.

Putting emotion aside this is the bit that mystifies me about the Watts trade. Forwards, Rucks and outside deliverers of the ball are the three weakest areas of our list. At worst Watts is decent backup for our first choices in these positions. At best he could make the new Lynch/Shaun Grigg role his own, hit up and deliver to our forwards, chop out and be an extra kid in the ruck. 

We need a backup for Max before we even trade Watts. Once he’s gone we need a backup ruck AND another forward/backup ruck in case TMac or Pedo get injured or fall off a cliff. I don’t see a better option than Watts for these roles coming in, especially for pick 29.

Also if we’re planning to do a Richmond we better hope Dean Kent, Hannan, ANB and Harmes all improve out of sight cos without Watts you have no-one to drop them for. 

Edit: Idiotically put the wrong responses under the different quotes.

Edited October 12, 20177 yr by deejammin'

I dream that there are no takers for Watts and the "near death" experience finally shocks him into becoming the player we all want him to be. Unfortunately, while the first part might come true I remain doubtful about the second.