but according to the papers today. a panel pick 3 finalists then it is just a public vote

eddie furious

 http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/jeremy-howe-pipped-for-2017-mark-of-the-year-by-joe-daniher-and-social-media-into-meltdown/news-story/b9aa532f3e38ee55d27a7d469b139368

Just now, SFebey said:

Well there you go, case closed. Thanks DC

maybe not.....see above 2nd post

Just now, daisycutter said:

maybe not.....see above 2nd post

I think they just make everything up as they go anyway, just like the umpiring and MRP.

It's all part of the Great Rehabilitation Process which will continue on Satdee when the would-be Lance Armstrong of the AFL, the man who dropped the comp into the greatest crisis in its history and nearly got an entire club banned by WADA, gets to hand over the Norm.

 

They would have given a farewell Brownlow to Jobby if they thought they could get away with it.

That #&**(^#^ even touching the great Norm Smith medal makes me so 

35 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

but according to the papers today. a panel pick 3 finalists then it is just a public vote

eddie furious

 http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/jeremy-howe-pipped-for-2017-mark-of-the-year-by-joe-daniher-and-social-media-into-meltdown/news-story/b9aa532f3e38ee55d27a7d469b139368

Thanks for that,

I assume it is the same for goal of the year.

Didn't really follow these things but it now has as much credibility as the Gold Logies

2 hours ago, SFebey said:

Well seeing as this is an umpiring thread and the Brownlow is voted by the umpires I'll have a rant. @Lucifer's Hero sums it up very well!

So we have the deliberate (no votes) to Danger to avoid embarrasment of winning.

Then we also have GOTY, winner being indigenous which is great as they are the real stars but there would've been 20 better goals this year, even Oliver v Adelaide & Hunts 75m torpedo into the wind were better IMO, not to mention 5-10 of Eddie Betts' goals and the best one of all IMO was Buddy's.....

Then MOTY - Howe did Howe not win this? He was told to be sitting in his seat when it was announced and funny enough it was given to an Essendon player, who I think the AFL are trying to get everyone forgive after their drug cheating scandal. I even think Puopulo's mark was better than JD's!

Now apparently these awards are voted by the public? But everyone at least thought Howe should have got MOTY. Which leads me suspect the AFL intervened and rigged it all. Just my thoughts, but I have no trust in the current AFL administration one bit. Gil needs to go.

And all in the same week as Cotchin, captain of a participating GF team, gets off the MRP with no case to answer? When he clearly tucked his arms in, lead with his shoulder and caused concussion - if he was going for the ball adamantly he would've had his hands out to grab it, any other week during during the year he would've been rubbed out or got a fine, which would see his missing the GF...AFL wouldn't let it happen, AFL wants Richmond to win the Premiership. If Dangerfield laid his "dangerous tackle" in the Pre-lim, do you think he would be playing the GF? Yes he would.

Did Andrew McGrath deserve the Rising Star ahead of Powell-Pepper or Burton? McGrath another Essendon player.

James Hird to present the Norm Smith after his indiscretions? Essendon.

The whole thing is getting unbearable to watch, but Gil and his puppets will call it the best season ever due to the closeness of the games, where if one watched closely, umpires evened up games themselves. The whole game needs an overhaul, but they will get away with it due to the "results."

What gives me hope is maybe one day soon the AFL will want the Mighty Dees to win a premiership after a long draught, but personally, I hope we do it the hard way and our own way.

I'm well known for my stance in regard to this mob of amateur  a'holes but this is a bloody good post that pretty well sums up this whole year. One thing that i did notice was the total lack of a resounding applause of support to Macca.

All i can say is look in the mirror, son......you will be remembered for all the wrong reasons....

53 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

It's all part of the Great Rehabilitation Process which will continue on Satdee when the would-be Lance Armstrong of the AFL, the man who dropped the comp into the greatest crisis in its history and nearly got an entire club banned by WADA, gets to hand over the Norm.

 

They would have given a farewell Brownlow to Jobby if they thought they could get away with it.

Ninety five thousand rear ends to be exposed or even a kneel would do.......all in honour of the presenter of course.

Money, money, money.  The gambling dollar is corrupting sport and it's as simple as that.  The questions that should be asked of the AFL are:

"How much money does the AFL receive from betting agencies each year?"

"Where does that money go?"

It is getting to the stage where consideration should be given to establishing a Royal Commission into the links between betting agencies and corruption in Australian sport.  It won't happen though.  The truth would be too much to handle.

I'd love to learn the identity and connections of big punters who placed pre-season doubles bets on Dusty for the Brownlow and the Tigers for Premiers.

5 minutes ago, ProperDee said:

Money, money, money.  The gambling dollar is corrupting sport and it's as simple as that.  The questions that should be asked of the AFL are:

"How much money does the AFL receive from betting agencies each year?"

"Where does that money go?"

It is getting to the stage where consideration should be given to establishing a Royal Commission into the links between betting agencies and corruption in Australian sport.  It won't happen though.  The truth would be too much to handle.

I'd love to learn the identity and connections of big punters who placed pre-season doubles bets on Dusty for the Brownlow and the Tigers for Premiers.

Has Demonland shifted to the "dark web"? That's where I thought conspiracy theories like this resided.

10 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Has Demonland shifted to the "dark web"? That's where I thought conspiracy theories like this resided.

So there's never been any gambling corruption of any sport?   Or is it will never happen in the AFL?  (Just like Essendrug never happened because they are all good aussies.)

44 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Has Demonland shifted to the "dark web"? That's where I thought conspiracy theories like this resided.

Imagination is the fruit of the mind...........humbly

I just don't understand why people who believe there is massive corruption and conspiracies involving the AFL are still watching it. What would be the point? If there are posters out there who genuinely believe the AFL is corrupt,  can you please explain why you still (a) watch it and (b) participate in this forum? I'm not trying to be critical, I just don't understand.

23 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I just don't understand why people who believe there is massive corruption and conspiracies involving the AFL are still watching it. What would be the point? If there are posters out there who genuinely believe the AFL is corrupt,  can you please explain why you still (a) watch it and (b) participate in this forum? I'm not trying to be critical, I just don't understand.

why do some battered wifes stay with their husbands?

why do some parents never give up on their children no matter what?

these are all mysteries of the human kind

53 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I just don't understand why people who believe there is massive corruption and conspiracies involving the AFL are still watching it. What would be the point? If there are posters out there who genuinely believe the AFL is corrupt,  can you please explain why you still (a) watch it and (b) participate in this forum? I'm not trying to be critical, I just don't understand.

Personally I don't think there is currently evidence of corruption beyond the AFL bending/inventing the rules (not just of the game itself) to maximise $.  But the fact that they run a suspect ship in those matters makes me very nervous about the possibiity for gross corruption, especially given how much gambling is involved these days.  When  you can bet on which player will be the first to pick his nose then the possibiliy of corruption gets very real as has happened in other sports.

And you will see that a number of posters have expressed dismay at times about following footy any more and say that if it wasn't for their emotional attachment to the Dees, they would stop.  Maybe they are being a bit hyperbolic, but it is hard to drop a large part of your life just because you suspect things are not as kosher as they were.

2 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I just don't understand why people who believe there is massive corruption and conspiracies involving the AFL are still watching it. What would be the point? If there are posters out there who genuinely believe the AFL is corrupt,  can you please explain why you still (a) watch it and (b) participate in this forum? I'm not trying to be critical, I just don't understand.

Fair question which i will partially try to answer this way.

Some years ago i was an advocate of ALL sport, Two of the main ones were Cricket and Tennis, With me now, and over a period of time, i gradually became sure that, far from being my imagination, the reality was that there were serious flaws in both the administration and structure of these money grabbing participants and partners. It became a well known sad state of affairs worldwide.

I do not believe in sitting around and putting up with it, so a futile city hall fight went on. Anyhow the players took over penalties in tennis and India took over in cricket.That was enough for me.

As it is at the moment, my first love MFC is, by my standards, still padding the ball back. If things change well who knows.

That is why i feel i am entitled to watch, although true enough, it is dwindling, and obviously it follows that i am participating. 

3 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Has Demonland shifted to the "dark web"? That's where I thought conspiracy theories like this resided.

"Dark web" ?  You mean like hell and purgatory? I'd have thought an admirer of Dante would enjoy that!

Corruption in sport is a stark reality in Australia.  http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current series/tandi/481-500/tandi490.html

Why do I still watch football? I have supported the Demons since 1966 and I'll be buggered if I am going to give it away now after all these years of suffering simply because a mixture of bureaucrats and crooks are trying to line their pockets. 

Why do I participate in this forum? There are several reasons. (1) To share thoughts on my beloved MFC with fellow supporters. (2) To openly discuss some of the issues that impact on our game with mature, open minded, respectful and intelligent people. (3) To respond to you.

I am grateful for Willmoy and ProperDee giving reasoned responses. I hope their love for the Dees can continue without the sport itself being damaged. As I've said many times before, though, I'm a firm believer that one should never assume conspiracy when incompetence will suffice. 

4 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I am grateful for Willmoy and ProperDee giving reasoned responses. I hope their love for the Dees can continue without the sport itself being damaged. As I've said many times before, though, I'm a firm believer that one should never assume conspiracy when incompetence will suffice. 

Personally I think it's both, that's why Gil must go IMO.

So is the AFL “corrupt”?

 

Not in sense of bags of money changing hands. Not in the sense of Gil calling the minister for sports and "putting the frighteners on". Not in the sense of Gil and the Calabrian underworld plotting who wins next year's Brownlow.

 

(Yes, I know clubs have done the bags of money thing in the past. This is not about the clubs, it’s about head office and the comp itself.)

 

Corrupt? Not in criminal behaviour, not by any legalese definition. It is more in the sense of corrupted being damaged or warped.

The AFL runs a damaged and warped competition.

Biggest example: EFC and the drugs thing. They really didn’t care that their comp was perverted, that a flag might have been won by drug cheats. That their precious “integrity” was in tatters. They cared only about their image and associated revenue loss. They tipped them off, tried mightily to get them off, cut deals with ASADA, minimise the damage, then protect the club from on-field damage by making up rules about top-up players, etc etc, and now we’re in the rehabilitation phase. Because it’s more important to preserve the image and the money than to enforce their own rules (which were put in place after some dragging, kicking and screaming … and by sheer chance had big financial impact tied to NOT putting them in place).

The rules of the game. Constantly changing, for what purpose? Apparently to make the game look better on TV. Concentrating on harsh enforcement of some minor rules (deliberate OOB), but not others fundamental to the game (throwing, holding ball). Does it “look good on TV” to see rampant throwing the ball, or to see the ball carrier being spun in a 360 only to be told “play on”? Complete disregard of other rules (10m “protected” zone). "Interpretations", the very concept a sick joke. Introducing "interpretations" pre-season that are promptly ignored (ducking), until key moments when they're plucked out of thin air.

None of this seems to bother the AFL.

MRP. Chooklotto. Conflicts of interest when members are also in the media. Outspoken members (Burke, Bartel) admitting that they first look to get players off. Lethlean “at arms length", but popping into MRP meetings to make sure they’re doing the right thing.

None of this seems to bother the AFL.

Normalising behaviour.

Another example: Gil and his coin toss for alternate jumpers. He actually contemplated it! Sanity prevailed, but it shows how they don’t have policy or a manifesto to guide them. They literally make it up on the run.

... but they show rigour when it comes to some clubs. Eg the Port away strip. The MFC away strip. But then allow Carlton and EFC to play each other in traditional jumpers. Not a peep.

Would a sport of integrity (I mean real integrity, not AFL corn flakes box plastic integrity) stand for this?

They don't even have to be top flight comps. Would a suburban footy/cricket/netball league cop abuses and inconsistencies like this? Imagine the AGMs.

These perversions get normalised. They start to seem not so outrageous. (Even while typing this I’m wondering if I’m being precious.) Then other perversions are introduced which by precedent do not seem outrageous.

In athletics, swimming, cycling, etc, the rampant drug use has caused us to ask continually, can we believe what we are seeing? Every achievement, every record, has us wondering if it's natural or not.

With the AFL, even without outright corruption/drugs/criminality, we are forced to ask, is this a natural outcome?

You can tie in other things. 2016 GF umpiring. A fair outcome? Arguably not. The rigged draw year in year out. Does it provide fair outcomes? No effort is made to fix it. That it’s rigged is barely even acknowledged. The "greater good" (attendances and $$$) overrides all.

I believe that incompetence is usually a better explanation than conspiracy. But in time, with prolonged abuse and normalisation, it can become hard to tell the difference.

Can the AFL be trusted as a competition of integrity?

(Sometimes it seems more like My Kitchen Rules or The Bachelor than a sporting comp. This week, Dustin Martin was given a rose ... and Joel Selwood was voted off the island!)

For these reasons I have almost completely lost it with the AFL. Only my foolish but deeply ingrained allegiance to the MFC, born of many years of investment of nervous energy and hope, keeps me hanging on. Will there be a payout one day? I am like a gambler who has lost his money on the pokies and is sitting forlornly on a bar stool at 3AM hoping against hope for the jackpot that will get it all back again. Next payday (next season) I’m back doing it all over again.

Strangely enough, an MFC flag might be the thing to finally drive me away. I might consider the ledger square, close the case file and leave the AFL behind.

I will not be watching the game on Sat. I have no interest in it beyond hoping that RFC don't win.

The AFL. A damaged and warped competition with no underlying agenda other than “show me the money”, that plays favourites and makes up policy on the run. It's almost literally unbelievable.

Well written, Mazer. I still believe it's more incompetence than anything else, but I respect your view that with so many issues it becomes hard to tell the difference. 

I believe it's still at the incompetence stage. But it's the thin end of the wedge.

1 minute ago, Mazer Rackham said:

I believe it's still at the incompetence stage. But it's the thin end of the wedge.

maybe.....but it's not incompetence that makes the overarching <"greater good" (attendances and $$$)> that overrides all and too often is the prime motivation. can we call this persistent corruption a conspiracy? what is a conspiracy? 

 

15 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

maybe.....but it's not incompetence that makes the overarching <"greater good" (attendances and $$$)> that overrides all and too often is the prime motivation. can we call this persistent corruption a conspiracy? what is a conspiracy? 

 

It is corruption in two senses. The weaker sense is the more $, the more the AFL heavies can justify paying themselves exhorbitant salaries and feeling like big-shots.  The stronger sense is that they are corrupting the nature and spirit of the game to get those $. 

(I leave aside the danger of corruption as a result of the increasing influence of gambling.)

24 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

maybe.....but it's not incompetence that makes the overarching <"greater good" (attendances and $$$)> that overrides all and too often is the prime motivation.

That's venality. Or if you like, greed.

Would a competent administrator allow that to be the primary motivator, while allowing important aspects of the game to rot?

A competent administrator can't overlook the $$$, the attendances, etc. But they would seek a balance. Perhaps starting with an overhaul of the rules (get rid of "interpretation"), or a fairer draw.