The 159 year old pub in Carlton, the Carlton Inn, an old watering hole for many a Melbourne Uni student has been illegally demolished on the weekend! I am outraged, I am sick to death of these cowboy developers who are taking over political parties, roadways and anything else they might want. We allow cheap fire prone materials, compromised building codes and  endless height limits for these bastards, what more can we do for them? All the while as we facilitate a building investment bubble. 

I say we deal with these bastards this time. They must rebuild the pub, brick by brick and I advocate we bring back the public stocks, I am talking supervised public humiliation for these two developers!  Rotten to motors at 20 paces. It may finally send a message. 

I am fired up because I have just been to Rones' new street art exhibition around the corner from my place in Fitzroy. He has placed his female portraits in an amazing space on Johnston street, the old 1920's Lyric cinema building that will be demolished next month. Thanks VCAT you useless bastards. Heritage means nothing at VCAT. The unique building will be knocked over for a new Aldis and the usual apartments on top. Really the existing built space could have accommodated a supermarket, with tje apartments built on top but that kind of innovative thinking is well beyond the drones at VCAT. 

well said Earl

 

apparently the max is about $200,000 fine

 

they're tearing down our world

Agree with both posts. Drive's me insane. How are we supposed to keep a city with a connection to history when we tear that history down. Such a thing would be unthinkable in most European cities. 

On a much smaller scale the house opposite where i live was a beaut family home that has been demolished for 3 bog ugly dog boxes. Now i don't mind that so much as increasing density is really the only way to stop the ridiculous urban sprawl occurring in Melbourne. What i do mind is that latitude developers get to build rubbish houses with rubbish material that look crap and will be knocked down in 20 years. 

What i mind even more is the developers complete disregard for the law. The council approved the development but mandated a beautiful flowering gum on the block had to remain.  A tree that was at least 40 years old ad home to native birds that otherwise struggle against the invasion of the bloody miner birds.

The demolishing crew completely cleared the site including the tree. When i called the Councillor on the day it occurred and suggested they get down there to intercede the jumped up planning apparatchik  completely dismissed my concerns and said they weren't the police. They said they would investigate and i asked them to let me know the outcome (which s should be n order to plant a new tree). Three months later not a single word back form them.

Meanwhile they make us jump through ridiculous hoops for the small renovation we are doing (including saying we have to put our proposed new fence back from the existing fence line a half a meter and plant shrubs in front of it - reducing our land area, sorting us money with the stupid plants and giving us another area we have to maintain - not to mention creating an are for rubbish to collect)

Rant over. 

6 hours ago, binman said:

Agree with both posts. Drive's me insane. How are we supposed to keep a city with a connection to history when we tear that history down. Such a thing would be unthinkable in most European cities. 

On a much smaller scale the house opposite where i live was a beaut family home that has been demolished for 3 bog ugly dog boxes. Now i don't mind that so much as increasing density is really the only way to stop the ridiculous urban sprawl occurring in Melbourne. What i do mind is that latitude developers get to build rubbish houses with rubbish material that look crap and will be knocked down in 20 years. 

What i mind even more is the developers complete disregard for the law. The council approved the development but mandated a beautiful flowering gum on the block had to remain.  A tree that was at least 40 years old ad home to native birds that otherwise struggle against the invasion of the bloody miner birds.

The demolishing crew completely cleared the site including the tree. When i called the Councillor on the day it occurred and suggested they get down there to intercede the jumped up planning apparatchik  completely dismissed my concerns and said they weren't the police. They said they would investigate and i asked them to let me know the outcome (which s should be n order to plant a new tree). Three months later not a single word back form them.

Meanwhile they make us jump through ridiculous hoops for the small renovation we are doing (including saying we have to put our proposed new fence back from the existing fence line a half a meter and plant shrubs in front of it - reducing our land area, sorting us money with the stupid plants and giving us another area we have to maintain - not to mention creating an are for rubbish to collect)

Rant over. 

how can they make you move your fence away from your boundary? and force you to plant shrubs? I take it, it is your front fence?

can you object or would you have to go to vcat? 

Am I right in my assumption that the reason the developer went ahead and pull down the pub is because size of the maximum fine is more palatable than the project being halted ?    

 

Am I right in my assumption that the reason the developer went ahead and pull down the pub is because size of the maximum fine is more palatable than the project being halted ?    

Exactly. They paid around $4 mill - stick up a massive apartment block and it would be worth - forget what but The Age said something massive - $40-60 mill.

 

$200,000 fine - chook feed.

 

They should be in jail

 

Exactly. They paid around $4 mill - stick up a massive apartment block and it would be worth - forget what but The Age said something massive - $40-60 mill.

 

$200,000 fine - chook feed.

 

They should be in jail

or better still - work to a formula - a notional highest value development that can go on a block - then make the penalty hurt - if there is a $40M - $60M development going on the block then make the penalty 50% of the value of the development - that will make them think twice about pulling down a heritage listed building...

For these guys to do this I again make the presumption that they must have thought about ripping it down before they even bought the property.

2 hours ago, nutbean said:

or better still - work to a formula - a notional highest value development that can go on a block - then make the penalty hurt - if there is a $40M - $60M development going on the block then make the penalty 50% of the value of the development - that will make them think twice about pulling down a heritage listed building...

For these guys to do this I again make the presumption that they must have thought about ripping it down before they even bought the property.

don't forget "someone" partially burnt down the pub shortly before the demolition (still being investigated but seemingly deliberate). definitely determined and certainly contemptuous

reminds me of lindsay fox's view-obstructing trees at portsea. well worth the fine. 

On 24 October 2016 at 7:53 PM, daisycutter said:

don't forget "someone" partially burnt down the pub shortly before the demolition (still being investigated but seemingly deliberate). definitely determined and certainly contemptuous

reminds me of lindsay fox's view-obstructing trees at portsea. well worth the fine. 

Yes DC they also should be charged with tampering with a crime scene as well as the asbestos scandals. The EPA today found asbestos from the Carlton site dumped at one of their properties in Cairnlea, the issues keep coming. 

And yet no media outlets can track them down?? 

On 24/10/2016 at 7:53 PM, daisycutter said:

don't forget "someone" partially burnt down the pub shortly before the demolition (still being investigated but seemingly deliberate). definitely determined and certainly contemptuous

reminds me of lindsay fox's view-obstructing trees at portsea. well worth the fine. 

Many years ago (decades even), there was a beautiful old heritage listed pub in George Street Sydney which was standing in an area where Harry Seidler and his cohorts were constructing what is now Grosvenor Place.  They suggested to the Sydney council (I think it was) that the pub was unstable and should be demolished, but their request was rejected...just a couple of weeks later the pub caught fire a Seidler suggested again that the remaining shell was a hazard and should be demolished.  They were ordered to repair the facade of the building which was then incorporated into the final Grosvenor Place building to great effect.

i never liked Seidler and that effort did nothing to raise him in my esteem.

I read something last night about them being forced to rebuild or something... not sure of the validity of the rumour

$40-$60m development vs a $200K fine.

Rebuilding something ? meh ! you have got to make the penalty for these types of action a deterrent.

 

1 hour ago, nutbean said:

$40-$60m development vs a $200K fine.

Rebuilding something ? meh ! you have got to make the penalty for these types of action a deterrent.

 

Spot on Nutbean.

I am not anti-development and I frown apon the green groups who have been caught out in wikileaks surreptitiously disrupting major Australian projects. However, when a developer knocks down a heritage listed building the penalty should be appropriate. Horses for courses. The $200k fine is not enough.

On 18/10/2016 at 10:07 PM, Earl Hood said:

The 159 year old pub in Carlton, the Carlton Inn, an old watering hole for many a Melbourne Uni student has been illegally demolished on the weekend! I am outraged, I am sick to death of these cowboy developers who are taking over political parties, roadways and anything else they might want. We allow cheap fire prone materials, compromised building codes and  endless height limits for these bastards, what more can we do for them? All the while as we facilitate a building investment bubble. 

I say we deal with these bastards this time. They must rebuild the pub, brick by brick and I advocate we bring back the public stocks, I am talking supervised public humiliation for these two developers!  Rotten to motors at 20 paces. It may finally send a message. 

I am fired up because I have just been to Rones' new street art exhibition around the corner from my place in Fitzroy. He has placed his female portraits in an amazing space on Johnston street, the old 1920's Lyric cinema building that will be demolished next month. Thanks VCAT you useless bastards. Heritage means nothing at VCAT. The unique building will be knocked over for a new Aldis and the usual apartments on top. Really the existing built space could have accommodated a supermarket, with tje apartments built on top but that kind of innovative thinking is well beyond the drones at VCAT. 

There is only one way to deal properly with these rogues.

Take the cost of rebuilding the heritage listed building exactly as it was from they're family investments, & remove the property title from them, giving it to a heritage trust.

And lastly, jail the directors or owners of the property development company for 5 Yrs without parole. no weekend home visits, etc.

They are now going to rebuild it at their own expense but it's not the same.

They really don't build them like they did back then.

They really should have been jailed for something like this notwithstanding the Arson attack.

They should be heavily fined as well as having to hand back the site when they finish attempting to recreate something from 1856 .

 

8 hours ago, DV8 said:

There is only one way to deal properly with these rogues.

Take the cost of rebuilding the heritage listed building exactly as it was from they're family investments, & remove the property title from them, giving it to a heritage trust.

And lastly, jail the directors or owners of the property development company for 5 Yrs without parole. no weekend home visits, etc.

DV I still favour bringing back the public stocks in Fed Square for some public humiliation with rotten tomatoes etc for these bastards. And can we make it retrospective because I want to line up some former Planning Ministers for a stint in the same stocks, Robert Maclellan comes to mind and even the former Carlton Ruckman! 

1 hour ago, Earl Hood said:

DV I still favour bringing back the public stocks in Fed Square for some public humiliation with rotten tomatoes etc for these bastards. And can we make it retrospective because I want to line up some former Planning Ministers for a stint in the same stocks, Robert Maclellan comes to mind and even the former Carlton Ruckman! 

Maybe we could have our own answer to Spains 'Tomatina Festival' .   We could line up all the bastards who wreck our community by bulldozing heritage buildings & the like, or lighting/causing bush-fires (deliberate or via neglect), giving lousy financial advice designed to just for the sales to get they're commission, & any unscrupulous business person ripping off the innocents.

Put them on Draft-Horse drawn carts, one by one on parade along their way to Jail.  We can stone them along the route with rotten fruit, or the dirty washing water.

Edited October 27, 20168 yr by DV8

9 minutes ago, DV8 said:

Maybe we could have our own answer to Spains tomatoes festival.   We could line up all the bastards who wreck our community by bulldozing heritage buildings & the like, or lighting/causing bush-fires (deliberate or via neglect), giving lousy financial advice designed to just for the sales to get they're commission, & any unscrupulous business person ripping off the innocents.

Put them on draft-horse drawn carts, one by one, on parade along their way to Jail.  We can stone them along the route with rotten fruit, or the dirty washing water.

I like your thinking DV. Perhaps mounted backward on donkeys and hauled through the streets at the back end of the Moomba Parade? The rogues gallery would be drawn from ACA's car park pursuits of dodgey pool salesmen, car salesmen and let's now include our dodgey developers. 

By the way where is ACA and Tracey Grimshaw when we need to track down these developers? They are still invisible. 

 

 

 

58 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

I like your thinking DV. Perhaps mounted backward on donkeys and hauled through the streets at the back end of the Moomba Parade? The rogues gallery would be drawn from ACA's car park pursuits of dodgey pool salesmen, car salesmen and let's now include our dodgey developers. 

By the way where is ACA and Tracey Grimshaw when we need to track down these developers? They are still invisible. 

 

 

 

It must be a difficult moral decision, to report their own sponsors, I guess?   Who would pay their bills, if not for the dirty money.

 

Ye old Irish club sandwich

They're a hungry lot, those business types.

Edited October 27, 20168 yr by DV8

Hello from Adelaide... The city where a local council would not let a tree get cut down... So the developers built over it... Ended well 

Edited October 27, 20168 yr by Krazy Jaeger O'Smeara

It seems the developers are now going to rebuild the old hotel after a massive public backlash. Gee it is amazing the impact our Demondland campaign has had! Just goes to show the power of Demonland when we work together. 

Just to update you on these Vandals.

They now seem set to sue the Vic govt in an attempt to build 50 stories anyway.

I'd like them jailed and tortured.

I'm quite funny about old buildings.Even as Sarajevo was being pumelled and people were fleeing my thoughts were with the buildings and bridges that had stood for 1000 years.

These guys must be stopped,crushed,destroyed and dumped in an abandoned field.like you would withn a pile of asbestos,if you were a scummy dog.

On 22 July 2017 at 8:12 AM, Biffen said:

Just to update you on these Vandals.

They now seem set to sue the Vic govt in an attempt to build 50 stories anyway.

I'd like them jailed and tortured.

I'm quite funny about old buildings.Even as Sarajevo was being pumelled and people were fleeing my thoughts were with the buildings and bridges that had stood for 1000 years.

These guys must be stopped,crushed,destroyed and dumped in an abandoned field.like you would withn a pile of asbestos,if you were a scummy dog.

I'm with you on this, Biff (well, maybe not the tortured bit)

On 22 July 2017 at 8:12 AM, Biffen said:

Just to update you on these Vandals.

They now seem set to sue the Vic govt in an attempt to build 50 stories anyway.

I'd like them jailed and tortured.

I'm quite funny about old buildings.Even as Sarajevo was being pumelled and people were fleeing my thoughts were with the buildings and bridges that had stood for 1000 years.

These guys must be stopped,crushed,destroyed and dumped in an abandoned field.like you would withn a pile of asbestos,if you were a scummy dog.

Yes there is a lot at stake here in this case. Just imagine these bastards win and given our law system it is possible, it means the Planning Minister's rulings stand for nothing. That is a green light for every second rate developer to put up their best ambit proposals for over development anywhere they want. A recipe for ongoing chaos.

Alternatively maybe that would force the government of the day to pass some bullet proof legislation by the State Parliament setting out very prescriptive rules on height limits and heritage protection that would determine development and could not be challenged through the courts. 

20 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

Yes there is a lot at stake here in this case. Just imagine these bastards win and given our law system it is possible, it means the Planning Minister's rulings stand for nothing. That is a green light for every second rate developer to put up their best ambit proposals for over development anywhere they want. A recipe for ongoing chaos.

Alternatively maybe that would force the government of the day to pass some bullet proof legislation by the State Parliament setting out very prescriptive rules on height limits and heritage protection that would determine development and could not be challenged through the courts. 

It's one of the worst cases of heritage vandalism siince Alan Bond took a wrecking ball to pubs in the rocks in Sydney in the 80's.