49 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Saty  and similar ilk; Mines far from a pack thinking mentality.  Dare I say  i was among a handful from the beginning who urged and directed this be taken seriously. That's not to blow my own trumpet per se, just to put context on where I've been the whole time.

The horse carrying any credibility for the likes of Robbo, Warner and a whole swag of others shot through long ago.

As we have seen this past week, there's a lot in the Media with agendas and a fair slice of the media itself bias.

Some of us just think for ourselves.

There are lot of posters on here with their own agendas it doesn't preclude them from posting

There are always two sides to an argument, they should both be able to be aired on a public forum

Agree  with and respect your consistency on this topic

Edited November 13, 20168 yr by Satyriconhome

long live the forum

How many times did James Hird go to Court and how many times was he left in the cold?

says volumes for me, as does CAS...( oh and the shredded missing paperwork...)

11 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

How many times did James Hird go to Court and how many times was he left in the cold?

says volumes for me, as does CAS...( oh and the shredded missing paperwork...)

And give it a couple of years and the AFL will bring the sun tanned one in from the cold. Maybe not as the Chief Integrity Officer but there will be a campaign to soften/ gloss over his image.

1 minute ago, Return to Glory said:

And give it a couple of years and the AFL will bring the sun tanned one in from the cold. Maybe not as the Chief Integrity Officer but there will be a campaign to soften/ gloss over his image.

Yes The AFL would have prefered this to drag on even longer so that the unwashed masses just got sick of it. 

Never once has Slobbo the Chief Football Writer mentioned the complete lack of paperwork which to me was damming from the start. 

Show clean up to date paperwork and the problem is solved. 

If it is not presented or does not exist then that is alarm bells

 

Simple

Quite funny how Robbo never had an article pondering why none of the players admitted to ASADA interviewers about receiving off-site injections. Every single player, to a fault, lied when questioned about whether they were receiving injections.

I guess that's just an inconvenient element of the "good guy" narrative we'll sweep to the side, hey?

Edited November 13, 20168 yr by SaberFang

5 minutes ago, SaberFang said:

Quite funny how Robbo never had an article pondering why none of the players lied to ASADA interviewers about receiving injections. I guess that's just an inconvenient element of the "good guy" narrative we'll sweep to the side, hey?

Yes we will just drop those paragraphs....

8 minutes ago, SaberFang said:

Quite funny how Robbo never had an article pondering why none of the players lied to ASADA interviewers about receiving injections. I guess that's just an inconvenient element of the "good guy" narrative we'll sweep to the side, hey?

I hate to be pedantic but you seem to be inferring in the above that none of the players lied to ASADA

If they did 'lie', do you know the actual specific question they were asked, they were told everything was above board

"Have you bern injected with a banned substance"

"No"

 

3 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

I hate to be pedantic but you seem to be inferring in the above that none of the players lied to ASADA

If they did 'lie', do you know the actual specific question they were asked, they were told everything was above board

"Have you bern injected with a banned substance"

"No"

 

Sorry Saty

On more than one occasion they ' neglected'  to inform ASADA fully what and how often they were taking supplements. They deliberately withheld known information. That's lying.

3 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

I hate to be pedantic but you seem to be inferring in the above that none of the players lied to ASADA

If they did 'lie', do you know the actual specific question they were asked, they were told everything was above board

"Have you bern injected with a banned substance"

"No"

T'was a typo, have fixed that one (meant to say all of the players lied).

It was established in the brief of evidence following one of the many verdicts that the players, who were receiving off-site injections, did not disclose this information to ASADA when specifically asked if they were receiving off-site injections. Every single player lied to ASADA's interviewers when asked this question.

6 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

I hate to be pedantic but you seem to be inferring in the above that none of the players lied to ASADA

If they did 'lie', do you know the actual specific question they were asked, they were told everything was above board

"Have you bern injected with a banned substance"

"No"

 

Saty we have been through this before. The question is simple, what have you taken, it includes anything as what they are looking for is an explination of any anomalies in the test results in order to let the players off. there is no reason you would not tell ASADA about any thing you have outside of food as it actually covers you, it isnt use to ban you. 

In fact the only reason not to tell ASADA is if you know it I banned. hmmmmm

2 minutes ago, SaberFang said:

T'was a typo, have fixed that one (meant to say all of the players lied).

It was established in the brief of evidence following one of the many verdicts that the players, who were receiving off-site injections, did not disclose this information to ASADA when specifically asked if they were receiving off-site injections. Every single player lied to ASADA's interviewers when asked this question.

My point is we assume thst is what was asked, sorry I don't trust ASADA, and the biased system with WADA and the Court of Appeal

Here is a statement from ASADA'S website. 

Athletes must declare any substance used in the last seven days including any substances for which they have a current and valid Therapeutic Use Exemption. Not declaring use may affect results management and have adverse consequences for the athlete.

7 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

My point is we assume thst is what was asked, sorry I don't trust ASADA, and the biased system with WADA and the Court of Appeal

It is written on the form Saty. Unless the players can't read or ASADA tampered with the forms in a mass conspiracy then that is what was asked. 

You are still yet to say why you don't trust them with a reasonable reason. They aren't perfect but they are a he'll of a lot closer than the AFL or any alternative. 

20 minutes ago, Chris said:

Here is a statement from ASADA'S website. 

Athletes must declare any substance used in the last seven days including any substances for which they have a current and valid Therapeutic Use Exemption. Not declaring use may affect results management and have adverse consequences for the athlete.

For all professional sportspeople who are subjected to ASADA/WADA testing,  it could not be clearer. 

Edited November 13, 20168 yr by Moonshadow

13 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

My point is we assume thst is what was asked, sorry I don't trust ASADA, and the biased system with WADA and the Court of Appeal

I'm trying to see your point of view on the topic but is this your main point of contention? That ASADA have fabricated evidence or rigged the system to find the players guilty?

At no point has any player accused ASADA of fabricating evidence. No player has ever denied lying to interviewers about their off-site injections. If ASADA were inventing evidence to find them guilty, would every player and their pet dogs not be screaming about this to the media? Would there not have been a reference to such an accusation in any of the multiple court cases over the years? And would the media narrative not be slightly more substantial than, "they were all duped, but they're all really great blokes"?

I'm not saying ASADA are infallible; I think they've been made to look fairly incompetent throughout this entire saga, largely due to the endless obstacles and roadblocks put in place by both Essendon and (more discretely) the AFL. Not one party involved with the AFL has made the process easy for them, obfuscating at every turn (not to mention tip-offs to destroy evidence before investigators had a chance to reach Windy Hill).

2 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

I hate to be pedantic but you seem to be inferring in the above that none of the players lied to ASADA

If they did 'lie', do you know the actual specific question they were asked, they were told everything was above board

"Have you bern injected with a banned substance"

"No"

 

If you're going to take that attitude then it's clear nothing can convince you of anything, ever.

I see your game.

You want a job sitting on the AFL drug tribunal!

4 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Wasn't Zacha's fear of needles the reason he didn't participate, or was he against the supplement program? Not sure.

I will say this unequivocally that the oft repeated claim that Zaharakis was afraid of needles was a total furphy. Zaharakis' attitude was that he wanted to succeed or fail on the basis of his own skill and not to play under the benefit of some supplement or illegal enhancement. That is what he has done. He wanted no part of the " program". He is a man of integrity and quality. He could read the tea leaves and made his decision. The rest made the other choice. 

13 minutes ago, pineapple dee said:

I will say this unequivocally that the oft repeated claim that Zaharakis was afraid of needles was a total furphy. Zaharakis' attitude was that he wanted to succeed or fail on the basis of his own skill and not to play under the benefit of some supplement or illegal enhancement. That is what he has done. He wanted no part of the " program". He is a man of integrity and quality. He could read the tea leaves and made his decision. The rest made the other choice. 

Point taken. But I would guess that all players take some forms of suppliments, presumably legal. Even vitamins and protein substances are suppliments which players should disclose to ASADA. If you are saying Zacka knew the program included banned drugs, that implies they all knew.

I ask you 2 questions Pineapple:

How solid is your source? If Zacka was aware, were the others?

Edited November 13, 20168 yr by Moonshadow

6 minutes ago, pineapple dee said:

I will say this unequivocally that the oft repeated claim that Zaharakis was afraid of needles was a total furphy. Zaharakis' attitude was that he wanted to succeed or fail on the basis of his own skill and not to play under the benefit of some supplement or illegal enhancement. That is what he has done. He wanted no part of the " program". He is a man of integrity and quality. He could read the tea leaves and made his decision. The rest made the other choice. 

 

6 minutes ago, pineapple dee said:

I will say this unequivocally that the oft repeated claim that Zaharakis was afraid of needles was a total furphy. Zaharakis' attitude was that he wanted to succeed or fail on the basis of his own skill and not to play under the benefit of some supplement or illegal enhancement. That is what he has done. He wanted no part of the " program". He is a man of integrity and quality. He could read the tea leaves and made his decision. The rest made the other choice. 

I reckon he was the only one to think of this excuse.

Or perhaps he was the only one not too ashamed to pretend he was scared of injections.

Everyone seems to forget that Essendon players are probably still benefitting from the effects of the supplements three years ago.I compare it to the gradual build up of strength in recruits after several pre-seasons. The Bombers had an accelerated bulk-up,and it's still helping.

Weve got two of them. I hope it helps us.

2 hours ago, Return to Glory said:

And give it a couple of years and the AFL will bring the sun tanned one in from the cold. Maybe not as the Chief Integrity Officer but there will be a campaign to soften/ gloss over his image.

Vive la bummers francaise, combien il Fait? (Can only speak in French now, poor dear)and not too well....

I know for sure that Zacka knew about the program and I have to assume the other players were the same. My source is someone who  knew Zaharakis very well as a young man for six years and in whom he confided about this business, a person he respected and trusted. I don't doubt what she told me is absolutely accurate.

I don't know Zaha personally but I'm assured he knew exactly what was going on (as did all players) and wanted no part of it. The "don't like needles" excuse was a fabrication to get teammates off his back.

It's interesting how he was shunned from the leadership group and treated like crap by Hird in the years following his refusal to partake in the program, isn't it?

7 minutes ago, SaberFang said:

I don't know Zaha personally but I'm assured he knew exactly what was going on (as did all players) and wanted no part of it. The "don't like needles" excuse was a fabrication to get teammates off his back.

It's interesting how he was shunned from the leadership group and treated like crap by Hird in the years following his refusal to partake in the program, isn't it?

Why would you bother playing for them then, for the next umpteen years, inexplicable??

2 minutes ago, willmoy said:

Why would you bother playing for them then, for the next umpteen years, inexplicable??

Dunno. Maybe he just wanted to play footy with his mates and Hird, Danks, et al had been removed.