2016 Player Review - # 8 Heritier Lumumba

[Roger Mellie 4,096]

On 11/11/2016 at 1:00 PM, DeeSpencer said:

Still hasn't fronted to training when a lot of players in similar scenarios are coming back early. Combined with a bit of interest in the press. Wouldn't shock me if just gave it away now. I doubt Goodwin is as interested in the softly softly Roos approach.

I thought he'd front up early, just for having missed so much footy in the second half of the season. It's a bit odd, but perhaps he's just doing his own program and will return later and raring to go (with the other old codgers) 

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

8 hours ago, stuie said:

As others have pointed out, Vince is the one who I would put as the most similar given his age, (comparative) form and that he would also be expected to be a "best 22" player. I reckon Vince should be at least around in a casual way like McDonald, unless of course his injury has meant he'll start at normal time or later.

Spencer isn't anywhere near the 22, Melksham hasn't trained for a year so of course he's straight in (like Hibberd also), TMac isn't actually training as such, he's just there which he probably should be anyways as a member of the leadership group, likewise with Jetta and Jones.

I'm not too worried about H, yet... He would still have his base of fitness and that's what most of this first few weeks is about. I think his obstacles and priorities will be finding some touch and some confidence so that will happen more once they break the footy's out. That's the time to keep a close eye on him IMO. Reckon we'll be able to gauge his commitment once the "real" stuff starts, rather than see him running a few casual laps.

 

I don't think you can dismiss his non appearance at training that easily Stu, he would have had a very honest end of season interview with Goody who wasn't there when Roosey did the deal to bring him in (from a Collingwood who were very pleased to see him go) and won't feel at all obligated to him.  Goody has seen Harry play two very unproductive seasons for us and recognizes he isn't one for the contested ball. 

My suspicion (based on what public information is available) is he's lost his passion for the game and this year is superannuation.  He's nowhere near "best 22" for me, probably outside top 30 and I reckon if he was really committed to the cause he'd be down there making it plain to all that he's serious about getting his spot back.

 

[stuie 7,374]

20 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

I don't think you can dismiss his non appearance at training that easily Stu, he would have had a very honest end of season interview with Goody who wasn't there when Roosey did the deal to bring him in (from a Collingwood who were very pleased to see him go) and won't feel at all obligated to him.  Goody has seen Harry play two very unproductive seasons for us and recognizes he isn't one for the contested ball. 

My suspicion (based on what public information is available) is he's lost his passion for the game and this year is superannuation.  He's nowhere near "best 22" for me, probably outside top 30 and I reckon if he was really committed to the cause he'd be down there making it plain to all that he's serious about getting his spot back.

 

It's not a "non appearance" though. He doesn't have to be there, he's done plenty of preseasons and there were a bunch of other senior players not there either.

What public information tells you he's lost the passion? Who says he won't stake a claim when he actually rocks up to training when he's meant to?

As for the Collingwood comment, I'm not sure I'd be worrying too much about their opinion of anything at the moment TBH.

Now I'm not saying he's going to prove all the doubters wrong next year etc etc, but there's been what 2-3 training sessions especially for 1st to 4th year players and Lumumba, who has done plenty of what the young blokes are doing right now, isn't there and people are panicking, I don't share that panic as yet. I'll wait for the real training, maybe post-Christmas, and we'll see how he's attacking the ball, how vocal he is and how much he's putting his hand up then.

 

[Moonshadow 17,676]

Without prejudice or malice but...

How do we know he's not doing considerable running, swimming, gym work or the like off the training track to present in tip top shape with the other senior players when their PA award says they should? Maybe he's been told what to do and when to show up on the track and he's following it. Perhaps we should give him the benifit of waiting until he hits the track with the remaining senior players?

[Earl Hood 6,101]

58 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Without prejudice or malice but...

How do we know he's not doing considerable running, swimming, gym work or the like off the training track to present in tip top shape with the other senior players when their PA award says they should? Maybe he's been told what to do and when to show up on the track and he's following it. Perhaps we should give him the benifit of waiting until he hits the track with the remaining senior players?

If he had hit the track early we would not need to give him the benefit. That is, it stops the queries. Instead we have a player who hasnt played for almost a year and hasn't yet turned up for preseason 2017. I have some worries. 

[stuie 7,374]

7 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

If he had hit the track early we would not need to give him the benefit. That is, it stops the queries. Instead we have a player who hasnt played for almost a year and hasn't yet turned up for preseason 2017. I have some worries. 

Earl, only the 1st to 4th year players are required at this stage. Let's stop with the "hasn't yet turned up for preseason" hyperbole.

 

[Moonshadow 17,676]

2 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

If he had hit the track early we would not need to give him the benefit. That is, it stops the queries. Instead we have a player who hasnt played for almost a year and hasn't yet turned up for preseason 2017. I have some worries. 

He doesn't have to turn up yet!

Again, how do we not know he hasn't put in a lot of work out of the public view as instructed by Misso? I'm not saying he's going to have a great year or retire mid season, but I think there are posters jumping to unreasonable conclusions on this one.

[beelzebub 23,382]

He doesnt have to....NO

 

He could...and set tongues awagging...yes

 

He's his own style of man that's for sure

 

I think he will struggle now though his  "flair" and get up and go might be an intrigue for Goody.

 

We have an excess of talent in the backline now. Its who fit, who sparks, who really REALLY wants to be part of our next flag.

 

He's a strange fish

 

[xarronn 384]

23 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

If he had hit the track early we would not need to give him the benefit. That is, it stops the queries. Instead we have a player who hasnt played for almost a year and hasn't yet turned up for preseason 2017. I have some worries. 

"Almost a year"!!!! - he last played in the senior team in round 6. Can't remember exactly, but I think he played a few games for Casey after that. How do you calculate almost a year!

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

3 hours ago, stuie said:

He doesn't have to be there

Yeh, that's my point. 

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

I am still quite hopeful H can get back and play a role, if nothing else he's a smart guy and great clubman and the sort of guy who if not in the best 22 you know can step up to AFL level and play a role whenever he's needed.

in modern footy i reckon top 4 teams have between 30-35 players ready to come in and play a role at any one time, the long term projects seem to be a bit more rare. 

worst case scenario provides good depth and a wealth of experience to the casey boys, having a former premiership player and i think he has been All Australian before? working with the young guys at casey is a very handy bonus.

[demonboys 13]

yes but definitely unless he shows something do not extend that contract is obviously what i mean and if his play is not up to scratch such as last season he may as well plays 2s at casey

[stuie 7,374]

11 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Yeh, that's my point. 

What do you think about Bernie not being there after a sub-standard year and a contract that finishes next season then?

 

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

45 minutes ago, stuie said:

What do you think about Bernie not being there after a sub-standard year and a contract that finishes next season then?

 

Bernie played the full season and there is no query about him not being best 22. No problems with him taking his full break.

Lumumba played very little last year and didn't play when cleared by the medico's.  He's not currently best 22 IMO.  Big difference.

H may come back and prove me wrong.  It would be good if he did but on the things I'm seeing I'm sceptical.  And after such a serious concussion with no serious incident in either game that I saw his future must be clouded as even a small hit it seems could be a problem for him.  I hope he's not putting money ahead of his health.

For the record I saw both games where he was supposed to have got the "hit".  I missed them both.  I saw both Brayshaws and they were awful.  Brayshaw played some good footy at the end of the year.  H didn't.

[Dr evil 1,185]

53 minutes ago, stuie said:

What do you think about Bernie not being there after a sub-standard year and a contract that finishes next season then?

 

FInished 7th in the best and fairest and averaged 26 touches or something, i reckon Bernie is in a slightly different position where he's still in the best 22 pretty comfortably, may not be the case at the end of the year but right now he is, and H is fringe at best so while he isn't required back yet i would personally have liked to see him on the front foot and out there early getting set for a huge year.

( i have no idea where he is at or if he's even able to train at this stage)

[stuie 7,374]

4 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Bernie played the full season and there is no query about him not being best 22. No problems with him taking his full break.

Lumumba played very little last year and didn't play when cleared by the medico's.  He's not currently best 22 IMO.  Big difference.

H may come back and prove me wrong.  It would be good if he did but on the things I'm seeing I'm sceptical.  And after such a serious concussion with no serious incident in either game that I saw his future must be clouded as even a small hit it seems could be a problem for him.  I hope he's not putting money ahead of his health.

For the record I saw both games where he was supposed to have got the "hit".  I missed them both.  I saw both Brayshaws and they were awful.  Brayshaw played some good footy at the end of the year.  H didn't.

So you're questioning whether he was genuinely concussed but also quoting the medicos? Not sure you can do both those things. Also, he was cleared by the medicos to resume when he felt he could, obviously after such a lengthy time out he wanted to get back into some fitness/form first, especially given his contract is on the line.

I'm not sure it's that big a deal if he's not "best 22". Bernie could very well not be "best 22" either next year given his form this year and his age next year. Reality is, it's more like a best 28 or so than a best 22 anyways.

Brayshaw and Lumumba are different people with different injuries, not sure we can compare them fairly.

As I've said earlier, I'm not worried at this stage, let's wait til we've had more than 3 training sessions, until we see what shape he's in, until the senior players are back and until the "real stuff" starts and he can show how committed he is then.

 

[stuie 7,374]

5 minutes ago, Dr evil said:

FInished 7th in the best and fairest and averaged 26 touches or something, i reckon Bernie is in a slightly different position where he's still in the best 22 pretty comfortably, may not be the case at the end of the year but right now he is, and H is fringe at best so while he isn't required back yet i would personally have liked to see him on the front foot and out there early getting set for a huge year.

( i have no idea where he is at or if he's even able to train at this stage)

Yep, was speaking comparatively though. Clearly Bernie would have though he could have been better this year.

Hey, it would have been great to have seen ALL the senior players come back early right? But the reality is they don't have to and they may even be told not to as to manage their workloads and ageing bodies.

 

[Dr evil 1,185]

Just now, stuie said:

Yep, was speaking comparatively though. Clearly Bernie would have though he could have been better this year.

Hey, it would have been great to have seen ALL the senior players come back early right? But the reality is they don't have to and they may even be told not to as to manage their workloads and ageing bodies.

 

Oh for sure, there is a lot of unknowns here, i personally just think H would be really keen to get out there and set himself for a huge year given this year hasn't gone the way he would have been hoping that it would. 

i see this as a very big year for him, if he doesn't lock down a spot in the best 22 he probably won't be at the club in 2018, in my opinion.

[Willmoy1947 4,140]

On 11/8/2016 at 9:38 AM, old dee said:

I have seen it all now!

No you haven't, i'm out on a limb with this one, and what's more i think that the spot could be there at the start of the season because there are two "new"recruits at Melbourne that have missed a lot of footy and will probably spend a bit of time in the Magoos to get to the tempo of the game.

[stuie 7,374]

13 minutes ago, Dr evil said:

Oh for sure, there is a lot of unknowns here, i personally just think H would be really keen to get out there and set himself for a huge year given this year hasn't gone the way he would have been hoping that it would. 

i see this as a very big year for him, if he doesn't lock down a spot in the best 22 he probably won't be at the club in 2018, in my opinion.

Yep, agree with all that. Hope he can find some form, but even if he does we're starting to have that delightful pain of quality selection now.

 

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,935]

In H's defence, wouldnt the senior players who train early with the youngsters just get a day(s) off in lieu later in the pre-season?

[old dee 23,870]

2 hours ago, willmoy said:

No you haven't, i'm out on a limb with this one, and what's more i think that the spot could be there at the start of the season because there are two "new"recruits at Melbourne that have missed a lot of footy and will probably spend a bit of time in the Magoos to get to the tempo of the game.

I think you totally missed my point willmoy it had nothing to do with you or HL!

Edited November 14, 2016 by old dee

[Willmoy1947 4,140]

13 minutes ago, old dee said:

I think you totally missed my point willmoy it had nothing to do with you or HL!

Yes, sorry, stuck my nose in, must get out of my security jacket and talk to people more..... 

[old dee 23,870]

Just now, willmoy said:

Yes, sorry, stuck my nose in, must get out of my security jacket and talk to people more..... 

No problem far worse things have happened to me.

[poita 3,902]

No, Lumumba is under no obligation to rock up to training at the start of November.

But, if I (a) had barely played for a year, (b) had been rubbish the season before that, (c) had suffered physical and mental issues in the past twelve months, and (d) was expecting to regain my spot in the senior team to trigger a contract extension, I reckon I would be doing very little thing possible to get myself in the best shape possible right now.

If it is good enough for the likes of Nathan Jones to make the occasional appearance at training to support his younger teammates and to consult with the coaching and medical staff, then it is certainly reasonable to expect that Lumumba might do the same. Particularly given that so many people around here are convinced he is a such great leader and club man.