THE BOMBERS' SWISS ADVENTURE

[beelzebub 22,739]

29 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Of course & this is why Toothless Gill will not remove the Brownlow from around the neck of that Mega Scum Jab Watson. Watson knows everything and still wants his medal

a life of alcohol abuse awaits him...

Once the Swiss appeal fails, and it will  and thats not just some cockamime refusal to acknowledge  the possibility they might win, it's based on track history of such things and the only ground they can appeal on has no real substance then the League will be instructed ( again, because its gormless and has no appetite to do anything ethically of its own accord ) to take back the Charlie. Of course Gils Dills will showcase it with a song and dance  hand in hand  with fellow co-victim Efc

Again , something will only be done when taken out of the hands of the morally bankrupt

[Ash35 425]

19 hours ago, daisycutter said:

i don't think there are many here who advocate additionally banning the whole club for season 2016    

It would appear there are.

Several seasons according to some.

The best argument is a comparison to cycling teams in the Tour de France. Wow.

People have a go at me for not reading their crap, yet claim I'm playing the victim. Perhaps they're not reading my drivel, as I've never claimed that.

There's a difference between playing the victim, and having an opinion that the punishments handed out have been adequate.

My comparisons to Bock are merely to point out some inconsistencies in people views here. How blinded they are by hating Essendon, rather than hating drug cheats as they claim.

But hey, it doesn't change anything, just like an official Essendon apology people are after won't change the past. But yes, it would show remorse, which I would like to see my club show.

In the end, Essendon were found guilty, punishments are being served, and I'm more than disappointed with what took place at my club 4 years ago.

But statements like Essendon should be banned from the AFL for several seasons are typical of the controversial rubbish a lot of keyboard warriors like to run with. Especially when it can't be backed up with any sort of logic.

 

  

[Ash35 425]

8 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

The worst aspect of this years comp is that some play the drug cheating scum twice whilst others face them only once

where is that a fair fixture. I shall hate everything Windy Pill until i am dead.

I guess it's like many recent seasons when clubs got to play Melbourne or Carlton twice, while other clubs only once. Every year it happens, teams get to play the wooden spooner twice or once depending on the luck of the draw.

But I can't understand your frustration, especially depending on how the ladder finishes, the 8th place team might get 8 points out of Essendon games and the Dees might finish 9th with zero points from Essendon games.

[beelzebub 22,739]

7 minutes ago, Ash35 said:

I guess it's like many recent seasons when clubs got to play Melbourne or Carlton twice, while other clubs only once. Every year it happens, teams get to play the wooden spooner twice or once depending on the luck of the draw.

But I can't understand your frustration, especially depending on how the ladder finishes, the 8th place team might get 8 points out of Essendon games and the Dees might finish 9th with zero points from Essendon games.

The draw is what it is I guess. How one looks at it from the beginning will always differ from the other end

tbh  honest I find it hard to resolve your first para against your second.....just me probably

Edited May 15, 2016 by beelzebub

[beelzebub 22,739]

11 minutes ago, Ash35 said:

It would appear there are.

Several seasons according to some.  

No, just one

[Sir Why You Little 35,330]

5 minutes ago, Ash35 said:

I guess it's like many recent seasons when clubs got to play Melbourne or Carlton twice, while other clubs only once. Every year it happens, teams get to play the wooden spooner twice or once depending on the luck of the draw.

But I can't understand your frustration, especially depending on how the ladder finishes, the 8th place team might get 8 points out of Essendon games and the Dees might finish 9th with zero points from Essendon games.

Why would you understand my frustrations

your team is the drug cheating scum which you believe has copped its fair wack

i don't and never will. 

[Melbman2 226]

On 13/05/2016 at 6:58 AM, Whispering_Jack said:

Really, I think Ash35 is correct. The Bombers have copped ample punishment and pain for their digressions - probably far more than had they come fully clean in the first place. I think the real reason they aren't fully coming out with the full mea culpa is the fact that their players' case is still being played out in the Swiss legal system and in any event, to do so might have the effect of further repercussions from the point of view of the legal proceedings that are likely to take place in the near future.

In effect, the Bombers have had about four of their seasons destroyed as a result of the saga and they face further pain for a few years to come because of the disruption caused to the club by the player suspensions, the loss of draft picks and the financial repercussions.

They deserved it from my point of view because someone at the club removed all evidence of the injection programme and the club then tried to plead innocence. They placed the health of their players at risk and, despite that, many of their players have remained loyal. 

Some of the Essendon supporters remain completely delusional and insist their club and their players did nothing wrong. I think however, that the majority of them have come to understand what took place and just want to move on.

I don't think it's rational to want to see further pain for Bomber fans or more blood spilt although the Dank situation needs to be dealt with as does the Brownlow which I believe has to be taken away from Job Watson just as Sergey Kirdyapkin will lose his 2012 Olympic Gold Medal for the 50km walk to Jared Talent this week.

All fair points but I think they have been fortunate to have had cheerleaders in the media and at AFL house which has meant most decisions here have not really been under the scrutiny that they should have been.

We still have the issues of:

• Destruction of the evidence (spreadsheets etc) required by the AFL investigation and subsequent ASADA and Worksafe investigations. (Governance wrist slap can't cover this)
• Tampering with witnesses, financial inducements for evidenciary stances/change of stance, refusal to sign statements for financial gain.
• Worksafe penalty being embarrassingly inadequate. The $200K fine equates to less than a 6K fine per endangered employee. And considering each employee's safety was breached with each injection, this may equate to as little as $6 fine per injection, but we'll never know, see first point.

None of the above has really been addressed and:

• To top all of this off they will benefit from their year of punishment by receiving an enhanced draft pick order. They should be at the end of each round as it was in all reality a self inflicted wound and artificially lowered ladder position not reflective of their true list strength requiring the legup that real cellar dwellers are entitled to.

But yes the Essendon players did get a year off for the most blatant and systematic team game drugging issue in Australian (world?) sport history ever uncovered. Well, the ones that were left did.

Edit: My last paragraph is a bit meh/crap but I'll leave it in

Edited May 15, 2016 by Melbman2

[Chris 2,892]

1 hour ago, Ash35 said:

It would appear there are.

Several seasons according to some.

The best argument is a comparison to cycling teams in the Tour de France. Wow.

People have a go at me for not reading their crap, yet claim I'm playing the victim. Perhaps they're not reading my drivel, as I've never claimed that.

There's a difference between playing the victim, and having an opinion that the punishments handed out have been adequate.

My comparisons to Bock are merely to point out some inconsistencies in people views here. How blinded they are by hating Essendon, rather than hating drug cheats as they claim.

But hey, it doesn't change anything, just like an official Essendon apology people are after won't change the past. But yes, it would show remorse, which I would like to see my club show.

In the end, Essendon were found guilty, punishments are being served, and I'm more than disappointed with what took place at my club 4 years ago.

But statements like Essendon should be banned from the AFL for several seasons are typical of the controversial rubbish a lot of keyboard warriors like to run with. Especially when it can't be backed up with any sort of logic.

 

  

Ash, your comment around the tour de france not being relevant (I am paraphrasing there) shows something that really bugs me with most of the AFL community. Every other sport under WADA and every precedent set is relevant if we wish the AFL to be taken seriously. So many people seem to think this is just the AFL and we should treat it as such and ignore what the rest of the world is doing. That is crap!

What the AFL should have done and should be doing is deferring to the WADA code at all points and relying on the precedents set around the world. That is what is best for the game long term. What they do now is try and hide everything to protect the brand, they just don't realise that everyone who takes this seriously laughs at them and they now have zero credibility. That does long term damage. 

The whole illicit drug policy is a joke and should be dumped, especially when half the illicit drugs are WADA banned but the AFL wont tell ASADA the results. Laughable. 

[biggestred 4,436]

If you actually dont understand the link between athletes riding bikes govered by the wada code and athletes running on a field governed by the wada code then you should probably have a think.

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

12 hours ago, Ash35 said:

 

In the end, Essendon were found guilty, punishments are being served, and I'm more than disappointed with what took place at my club 4 years ago.

But statements like Essendon should be banned from the AFL for several seasons are typical of the controversial rubbish a lot of keyboard warriors like to run with. Especially when it can't be backed up with any sort of logic.

 

  

Well, since you take no notice of any logic when it's pointed out to you, it's no surprise that you think there's no logic involved.

 

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

On 15/05/2016 at 7:27 PM, Ash35 said:

 

My comparisons to Bock are merely to point out some inconsistencies in people views here. How blinded they are by hating Essendon, rather than hating drug cheats as they claim.

 

I dislike Bock because he took banned drugs.

I hate the cheats at Essendon because they took banned drugs and obfuscated for years, claiming to be victims and hijacking season after season with their attempts to get off on legal technicalities. I am particularly infuriated by Watson, who cheated to win a Brownlow and despite cultivating the image of the 'stand-up guy and captain', hasn't given it back. I struggle to come to terms when Dyson Heppell says 'I know what I was given and am confident it wasn't detrimental to my health', but Hal Hunter has to sue to get medical records. There's more, but I'm sure you get the idea.

If Bock does any of that, my dislike for him will turn into hatred.

[monoccular 16,686]

On 14 May 2016 at 11:06 PM, biggestred said:

I dunno, they are talking about banning the whole of Russia from the olympics given their state sancioned doping program.

A tour de france team would be given a ban also.

A storm style play for no points would have been sufficient. But they did that already

I understood, from other cases, that there is some WADA rule that bans clubs who have more than maybe two players found guilty of drug offences.  If that is the case then, yes, Essendon should be banned, because that's the rule and the penalty for club / state sanctioned PED programs.

[beelzebub 22,739]

3 minutes ago, monoccular said:

I understood, from other cases, that there is some WADA rule that bans clubs who have more than maybe two players found guilty of drug offences.  If that is the case then, yes, Essendon should be banned, because that's the rule and the penalty for club / state sanctioned PED programs.

Im disappointed  and yet not surprised that this wasn't invoked. Not because I 'hate' this or that ( other than drug cheats ) but because it's right there in the code. I'm still curious why ASADA/WADA didn't pursue invoking it.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

15 minutes ago, monoccular said:

I understood, from other cases, that there is some WADA rule that bans clubs who have more than maybe two players found guilty of drug offences.  If that is the case then, yes, Essendon should be banned, because that's the rule and the penalty for club / state sanctioned PED programs.

Media went quiet on this as soon as the verdict was in.

[biggestred 4,436]

Enjoying that wada have retested 2008 beijing samples.

This is the way forward along with investigation.

We might not catch you now but our techniques will catch ip and we will get you eventually.

 

[old dee 23,256]

11 minutes ago, biggestred said:

Enjoying that wada have retested 2008 beijing samples.

This is the way forward along with investigation.

We might not catch you now but our techniques will catch ip and we will get you eventually.

 

The olmpics has been on a downward spiral since the 70's

Inspite of all the talk and bluster it is now more corrupt and tainted by drugs than  it has ever been.

It is a broken and morally bankrupt organisation.

It should be confined to the bin of broken grand ideas.

 

[biggestred 4,436]

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-18/aoc-boss-unsure-if-australians-among-positive-beijing-tests/7426616?section=sport

[Willmoy1947 3,871]

Keep those samples on ice "boys"

[Sir Why You Little 35,330]

8 hours ago, Choke said:

I dislike Bock because he took banned drugs.

I hate the cheats at Essendon because they took banned drugs and obfuscated for years, claiming to be victims and hijacking season after season with their attempts to get off on legal technicalities. I am particularly infuriated by Watson, who cheated to win a Brownlow and despite cultivating the image of the 'stand-up guy and captain', hasn't given it back. I struggle to come to terms when Dyson Heppell says 'I know what I was given and am confident it wasn't detrimental to my health', but Hal Hunter has to sue to get medical records. There's more, but I'm sure you get the idea.

If Bock does any of that, my dislike for him will turn into hatred.

BANG! You nailed it Choke

I/we have every dam reason to hate Essendrug (and Bock) for cheating our game and NOT owning up to it

Fcuk them all. Let's see how their health is in 5-10 years

Don't even try to make me feel guilty for hating all that is Windy Pill Ash

produce some paperwork and reciepts you low life bastards...

[old dee 23,256]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

BANG! You nailed it Choke

I/we have every dam reason to hate Essendrug (and Bock) for cheating our game and NOT owning up to it

Fcuk them all. Let's see how their health is in 5-10 years

Don't even try to make me feel guilty for hating all that is Windy Pill Ash

produce some paperwork and reciepts you low life bastards...

Ok time to slow up and calm down Sir.

You will end up having a heart attack or stroke.

it is just a game mate.

Hate consumes the hater more than the hated.

Edited May 18, 2016 by old dee

[SaberFang 7,141]

4 hours ago, old dee said:

The olmpics has been on a downward spiral since the 70's

Inspite of all the talk and bluster it is now more corrupt and tainted by drugs than  it has ever been.

It is a broken and morally bankrupt organisation.

It should be confined to the bin of broken grand ideas.

 

Don't get me started on the Olympics! What an utterly farcical waste of money, all at the taxpayer's expense. Almost more corrupt than FIFA.

[old dee 23,256]

12 minutes ago, SaberFang said:

Don't get me started on the Olympics! What an utterly farcical waste of money, all at the taxpayer's expense. Almost more corrupt than FIFA.

Close run race that SF.

[Sir Why You Little 35,330]

44 minutes ago, old dee said:

Ok time to slow up and calm down Sir.

You will end up having a heart attack or stroke.

it is just a game mate.

Hate consumes the hater more than the hated.

I just want the truth to come out

then REAL Penalties handed out

not this bullshite media tainted rubbish...

[Chris 2,892]

21 hours ago, monoccular said:

I understood, from other cases, that there is some WADA rule that bans clubs who have more than maybe two players found guilty of drug offences.  If that is the case then, yes, Essendon should be banned, because that's the rule and the penalty for club / state sanctioned PED programs.

Pretty sure that rule came into the AFL code in a revision after 2012 so isn't relevant for this case. It is the same reason the support staff haven't been banned. Under the current rules they would be but under the 2012 rules they can't be. 

[monoccular 16,686]

17 hours ago, SaberFang said:

Don't get me started on the Olympics! What an utterly farcical waste of money, all at the taxpayer's expense. Almost more corrupt than FIFA.

And where does the AFL lie in this league table? - pretty high too, though probably little noticed outside Australia in world rankings.

6 hours ago, Chris said:

Pretty sure that rule came into the AFL code in a revision after 2012 so isn't relevant for this case. It is the same reason the support staff haven't been banned. Under the current rules they would be but under the 2012 rules they can't be. 

I think I recall that there was 'some unease' at Eddie's club when the two 'innocents' who were laced in NZ after ingesting lamb, or perhaps some other substances.  But there were only two so the rule was not tested.