29 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Turned it over a bit on the weekend. Cant have that coming out of defence any more....

Agreed, I'd be really keen personally on throwing Garland forward, Frost back and letting Dunn be the third tall defender, but that's just my opinion

( not that it fixes the kicking out of the backline, i just think Frost is a better defender than forward and Garland could easily play a strong role up forward

Garland for Garlett perhaps?

Just now, Skuit said:

Garland for Garlett perhaps?

I'd play Garland as the high half forward and get him leading right up the ground and Keep Watts closer to goal, i thnk aside from Jesse and Jeff he is the next most likely to kick a bag of 3-4 goals and really make a difference, his strength is his speed and finishing so i think he is at his most dangerous inside 50 leading at the ball carrier and using his speed to get a break on his opponent.

Well that's certainly left-field for a bloke who has kicked perhaps ten goals in his career. 3 or 4 a game would be pretty handy across a season. I'm more curious as to who you would turf from our forward fifty to fit him in?

7 hours ago, hells bells said:

I'm interested to see whether Garland is in the starting 18 by the end of the year.  He still is now but it wouldn't surprise me if someone goes past him this year.

I'd go one further,

Do Garlands defensive capabilities outweigh those of Frost? 

Who is a threat to take Garlands place?

 

I've had a couple of best 22, I'm now leaning towards Hogan/Watts/Pedo up forward Dunn/Tmac/and 1 of Garland/Frost down back and 4 mids/flankers on the bench. When Gawn has a rest Pedo plays ruck and and a VB/Kennedy or both goes up forward to mix it up.

 

11 hours ago, Vineytime said:

Starting wingers at this stage are: M.Jones & Grimes. 

They have trained in these positions all summer and are their spots to loose atm. 

Goody has put his faith in them and boosted their confidence. 

Underrated posted. 

While it wouldn't be the centreline I'd pick I agree with you. 

Many supporters may not like it, but Matt Jones and Grimes are leading the race for positions in round 1.  I can't remember the last time it has been so tight for spots.  Players like Harmes, Stretch, Bugg, Oliver, Kennedy, Frost (will they go with Pedersen and Frost ?), Grimes and Matt Jones are vying for about 4 spots. 

2 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Underrated posted. 

While it wouldn't be the centreline I'd pick I agree with you. 

Many supporters may not like it, but Matt Jones and Grimes are leading the race for positions in round 1.  I can't remember the last time it has been so tight for spots.  Players like Harmes, Stretch, Bugg, Oliver, Kennedy, Frost (will they go with Pedersen and Frost ?), Grimes and Matt Jones are vying for about 4 spots. 

Very interesting. How far behind M. Jones & Grimes do you think Stretch is? I thought his game on the weekend was quite good and am surprised that you think he's behind M. Jones & Grimes at this stage.

I haven't seen anything from Frost so far that has me excited. I think Pedersen offers more. I think it is great that players that most have written off like M Jones ( and to a lesser extent Grimes) are playing well. We want our players who are lock to have pressure on them to perform from lesser lights. It is healthy and will help to drive standards.

20 minutes ago, Good Times Grimes said:

Very interesting. How far behind M. Jones & Grimes do you think Stretch is? I thought his game on the weekend was quite good and am surprised that you think he's behind M. Jones & Grimes at this stage.

I reckon the club will back the bigger more seasoned bodies.  Stretch is a second year player that won't be rushed.  If we had the current list (with fewer injuries) last year he wouldn't have got 11 games.

Also, Matt Jones and Grimes got more than double the playing minutes than Stretch on the weekend.  Stretch got 34% ground time compared to 72 & 77% respectively.  The club has made it clear that it would be playing its best side where possible.

Call it gut feeling, but I suspect the club has Grimes and Jones ahead at this early stage.  As mentioned, Stretch has years on his side.

8 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Turned it over a bit on the weekend. Cant have that coming out of defence any more....

What was worse was his insipid attempt to spoil as a 3rd man up in the 1st quarter. He's not a reliable lockdown defender and has little creative skill. Just don't see what he offers.

I find the knocks on Garland bemusing. I can see his limitations but he is very consistent, gells well with the other regular defenders (which is critical) and can cover both tallish and smaller types. A lock for best 22

59 minutes ago, mo64 said:

What was worse was his insipid attempt to spoil as a 3rd man up in the 1st quarter. He's not a reliable lockdown defender and has little creative skill. Just don't see what he offers.

He does this a lot. Leaves his man but doesn't have the confidence to attack the footy. Consequently the ball spills free and his opponent (who he left) picks up the ball and runs away.

People credit Garland with being a much smarter footballer than he is. 5 yrs ago he was, then he went through a brain fade period and I just think he has lost whatever it was that he had. Yes I know he was high up in the B&F in 2014 but there is something about his game that leads me to believe he will get passed quickly this year.

2 hours ago, ProDee said:

I reckon the club will back the bigger more seasoned bodies.  Stretch is a second year player that won't be rushed.  If we had the current list (with fewer injuries) last year he wouldn't have got 11 games.

Also, Matt Jones and Grimes got more than double the playing minutes than Stretch on the weekend.  Stretch got 34% ground time compared to 72 & 77% respectively.  The club has made it clear that it would be playing its best side where possible.

Call it gut feeling, but I suspect the club has Grimes and Jones ahead at this early stage.  As mentioned, Stretch has years on his side.

Admittedly I wasn't able to watch the game, might watch a replay later today. With regards to your comments "the club will back the bigger more seasoned bodies", how does this differ from last year? 

 

Was Matt Jones injured last year? I can't remember. 

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

He does this a lot. Leaves his man but doesn't have the confidence to attack the footy. Consequently the ball spills free and his opponent (who he left) picks up the ball and runs away.

People credit Garland with being a much smarter footballer than he is. 5 yrs ago he was, then he went through a brain fade period and I just think he has lost whatever it was that he had. Yes I know he was high up in the B&F in 2014 but there is something about his game that leads me to believe he will get passed quickly this year.

Passed by who? 

If Pedo looks to the first option for fwd/ruck can we expect to see Frost down back over the next two weeks?

Who else is Garland competing with?

 

1 minute ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Passed by who? 

If Pedo looks to the first option for fwd/ruck can we expect to see Frost down back over the next two weeks?

Who else is Garland competing with?

 

Hulett and Omac i'd say are going to be chasing that spot, 

Just now, Peter Griffen said:

Hulett and Omac i'd say are going to be chasing that spot, 

Hulett wouldn't be competing for a spot down back would he? 

I will ask this question again, if Garlands role is 3rd man up is this not something Frost could do? Frost would be physically stronger I'd think, he would be able to get to contests and kill the ball.

Like many, I am not sold on the Sam Frost as a forward experiment, and haven't been at any stage.

My preference is Pedersen as the second tall, with Watts playing that third tall role who works up the ground i.e. the role they tried to recruit Lynch to do.

I would play all of TMac, Frost, Garland and Dunn down back (with one starting on the bench), with the key being almost all 4 of them are very flexible in that they can play on smaller opponents if required. And we could then swing Frost into the ruck for 5 minutes here or there, and we can also swing TMac forward for a while if required.

I don't think OMac will be up to it for 2016. Dawes and Hulett compete with Pedersen for the second tall forward role.

32 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Admittedly I wasn't able to watch the game, might watch a replay later today. With regards to your comments "the club will back the bigger more seasoned bodies", how does this differ from last year? 

 

Was Matt Jones injured last year? I can't remember. 

I probably should have added "if they're in form".

Whatever you think of Jones, it's been reported he's had a great summer.  And he was also good against Port and in the intra-club.

They're rewarding form.

2 hours ago, binman said:

I find the knocks on Garland bemusing. I can see his limitations but he is very consistent, gells well with the other regular defenders (which is critical) and can cover both tallish and smaller types. A lock for best 22

In what way does he gel well with the other defenders? As a group, our backline was poor against Port. Our dominance around the stoppages painted over the cracks in our backline.

And can you give me examples of when Garland has locked down a small forward recently? It's an urban myth if you ask me.

1 hour ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Passed by who? 

If Pedo looks to the first option for fwd/ruck can we expect to see Frost down back over the next two weeks?

Who else is Garland competing with?

 

White? Wagner? Hulet?

I personally think the Frost will continue with the forward role and it will be in order to encourage a new aspect to the game plan. It was clear from Saturday that we set the zone much further up the ground, whilst this could just be a practice thing, i think it will be indicative of the way we play this year. Whilst it led us to be more open to a quick kick out of congestion over the defenders, as witnessed in the first quarter, with increased pressure from our forward half it will result in turnovers further up the ground, thus leading to a more attacking game style. It is not attack at all costs, but more apply significant pressure on ball carrier and runners in order to force a rushed kick and therefore a turnover. Gartlett, Kent and Kennedy will be major pieces to this puzzle with pressure but Frost and Watts are also two very quick talls that can help apply this pressure. The amount of times both Watts and Frost chased hard out of defensive 50 highlighted this and thus i think Frost will stay in the forward half.

I would like to see Frost streaming out of the backline like he did a couple of times on the weekend. Garland is good on certain types of forwards and he links well.He's not necessarily the most reliable conveyance but he's a goer. Frost not in the forward line thanks. He doesnt seem to have the mindset for it

34 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

White? Wagner? Hulet?

Was just having a look on the Dees website 

White 188cm

Wagner 189cm

Garland 191cm 

out of interest 

Josh Gibson 189cm

Could we have a backline in the future that looks something like

Jetta Dunn White/Wagner

Salem Tmac Wagner/Melksham

 

I was always intrigued by the 3year contract for Garland. Maybe he came cheap, I thought two was enough. 

1 hour ago, Mad_Melbourne said:

I personally think the Frost will continue with the forward role and it will be in order to encourage a new aspect to the game plan. It was clear from Saturday that we set the zone much further up the ground, whilst this could just be a practice thing, i think it will be indicative of the way we play this year. Whilst it led us to be more open to a quick kick out of congestion over the defenders, as witnessed in the first quarter, with increased pressure from our forward half it will result in turnovers further up the ground, thus leading to a more attacking game style. It is not attack at all costs, but more apply significant pressure on ball carrier and runners in order to force a rushed kick and therefore a turnover. Gartlett, Kent and Kennedy will be major pieces to this puzzle with pressure but Frost and Watts are also two very quick talls that can help apply this pressure. The amount of times both Watts and Frost chased hard out of defensive 50 highlighted this and thus i think Frost will stay in the forward half.

Agree. The Hawks don't care much about contested marks inside 50, they value forward pressure and quick ball movement far more and Roughead and Gunston (who also go in to the midfield) get much more ball on the lead and roving than they do via contested marks. Part of that comes from the teams brilliant skills, but their skills are mainly from half back, Smith, Hill, Rioli, Puopolo are all known to just bomb the chaos ball inside 50 and it still works because all their forwards are quick (except maybe the resting ruck but Hale and McEvoy know to get out of the way) and smart as well.

The question will be whether we are better off with Pedersen taking on average 1-2 marks inside 50 and probably kicking 1 extra goal a week as a marking target or Frost's speed. I think we need to see what Watts, Vanders and in time Petracca bring and work out what goes best with that mix. 

 

1 hour ago, Mad_Melbourne said:

I personally think the Frost will continue with the forward role and it will be in order to encourage a new aspect to the game plan. It was clear from Saturday that we set the zone much further up the ground, whilst this could just be a practice thing, i think it will be indicative of the way we play this year. Whilst it led us to be more open to a quick kick out of congestion over the defenders, as witnessed in the first quarter, with increased pressure from our forward half it will result in turnovers further up the ground, thus leading to a more attacking game style. It is not attack at all costs, but more apply significant pressure on ball carrier and runners in order to force a rushed kick and therefore a turnover. Gartlett, Kent and Kennedy will be major pieces to this puzzle with pressure but Frost and Watts are also two very quick talls that can help apply this pressure. The amount of times both Watts and Frost chased hard out of defensive 50 highlighted this and thus i think Frost will stay in the forward half.

Some interesting insights. I need to watch this replay.