And what years did those guys play again?

Thanks for illustrating my point even further.

Now run along and go get some more opinions from a comedy show on Fox Footy...

Fine. Jonathan Brown is one of the best CHF of the modern era. Im sure if you went up to him and said not all key forwards are there to kick goals he would tell you to stick it where the sun don't shine.

I don't know how people forgot Harmes game in R23??

FB: Jetta Dunn Garland

HB: Salem McDonald Melksham

C: Vanders Viney Brayshaw

HF: Kent Pedo Harmes

FF: Garlett Hogan Kennedy

Foll: Gawn Vince Jones

Int: Tyson Frost Bugg Lumumba

Emg: Watts Stretch Trengove*

I still think we lack pace..

We recruited Dawes to fill a hole we no longer need him to. He's had 3 years, he's had a lot of time to improve but we still don't score enough. What's wrong with trying something new? I said some of his shortcomings could be excused if he kicked more goals, not that kicking goals is the be all and end all of his game. Dawes is a part of the problem of our slow tempo and poor delivery inside 50.

If I thought our play in the middle was a bigger problem then I'd be badmouthing Vince, Jones and Viney.

Exactly he kills us everytime we go forward. And the one thing i noticed and i thought it was a telling point was against Collingwood round 18 there were numerous times Dawes got out by himself heading towards goal and yet they refused to kick it to him and he was starting to get frustrated. This clearly pointed out that his own teamates have completely no faith in him going forward .

I don't know how people forgot Harmes game in R23??

FB: Jetta Dunn Garland

HB: Salem McDonald Melksham

C: Vanders Viney Brayshaw

HF: Kent Pedo Harmes

FF: Garlett Hogan Petracca

Foll: Gawn Vince Jones

Int: Tyson Frost Bugg Kennedy

Emg: Watts Stretch Lumumba Trengove

I still think we lack pace..

He was fantastic. Didn't think a lot of him up until then, but that had to do with him being sub. I'd have him in my team too based on what he showed in that game

Exactly he kills us everytime we go forward. And the one thing i noticed and i thought it was a telling point was against Collingwood round 18 there were numerous times Dawes got out by himself heading towards goal and yet they refused to kick it to him and he was starting to get frustrated. This clearly pointed out that his own teamates have completely no faith in him going forward .

And he tries to make up for this by getting in front of Hogan and jumping for marks he can't take. In the St.Kilda game Dawes was everywhere in the first quarter but rolled a simple kick through for a point and then shanked a kick sideways inside 50. Cost us two goals and all the momentum at the start

And he tries to make up for this by getting in front of Hogan and jumping for marks he can't take. In the St.Kilda game Dawes was everywhere in the first quarter but rolled a simple kick through for a point and then shanked a kick sideways inside 50. Cost us two goals and all the momentum at the start

That to me said, he's finished.. Not getting any younger, rather Pedo!

Watched the Melbourne v Hawthorn game today on FOX where Pedersen kicked 3 and Dawes did absolutely bugger all except run his mouth couple days before the game. I think this draft period its a no brainer that we must recruit a key Forward. If Pedersen had not gotten injured i have no doubt Dawes would have been dropped to Casey.

Hes a spud and people are kidding themselves if they think he will be in the Round 1 team if Pedders and Frost are fit.

That to me said, he's finished.. Not getting any younger, rather Pedo!

Pedo's older.

Hes a spud and people are kidding themselves if they think he will be in the Round 1 team if Pedders and Frost are fit.

Yeah, Paul Roos says hi mate. He picks Dawes over Pedo every time.

Maybe it's not others who are kidding themselves...

Fine. Jonathan Brown is one of the best CHF of the modern era. Im sure if you went up to him and said not all key forwards are there to kick goals he would tell you to stick it where the sun don't shine.

Lol... Or maybe he'd have a crack at you for putting words in his mouth?

Opinion as fact, once again.

We recruited Dawes to fill a hole we no longer need him to. He's had 3 years, he's had a lot of time to improve but we still don't score enough. What's wrong with trying something new? I said some of his shortcomings could be excused if he kicked more goals, not that kicking goals is the be all and end all of his game. Dawes is a part of the problem of our slow tempo and poor delivery inside 50.

If I thought our play in the middle was a bigger problem then I'd be badmouthing Vince, Jones and Viney.

Look I don't disagree we need something new, I just think Dawes is a better and more consistent option than Pedo for now, especially with the reduced interchange and no sub.

Our forward line is a problem, no doubt, but it's connected with our lack of clearances and inside 50s, you can't separate the 2.

Jetta. Dunn. Garland

Melksham. Frost. Salem

Vince. Jones. Brayshaw

Kent. T. Macdonald Watts

Garlett. Hogan. Petracca

Gawn, tyson, Viney

Grimes, trengove, Vandenberg, Lumumba

I believe we already have a future CHF on the list. Tmac is a natural footballer.

Not sold on Bugg or Kennedy but will watch with interest.

Yes this is very close to mine - splitting hairs but Grimes probably doesn't make my 22, I'd prefer another midfield runner maybe ANB or Stretch. We need Fwd-Ruck and TMac has to be the first candidate. That puts Frost as first replacement candidate as KPB. Lumumba needs to really show something this year as 7th back, in there with Salem and Melksham. No Dawes or Pedersen because they aren't long term 2nd ruck solutions.

Watts and Petracca in the toughest job in footy - negate attacking half-back, get to position in the defensive structure and at stoppages all around the ground, run back and be a marking threat and goal kicker in the forward line. I really hope Trengove can get back because he could play this role very well, but unfortunately I have my doubts about his foot. Petracca has a decent beep but will take time to build sufficient endurance. I'd consider a year for James Kelly in this role if we think Trengove is unlikely to make it.

B: Jetta Dunn Garland

HB: Melksham McDonald Salem

C: Lumumba Vince Brayshaw

HF: Vandenberg Hogan Watts

FF: Garlett Dawes Kennedy

R: Gawn, Jones, Viney

Int: Bugg, Tyson, Grimes, Stretch

If we are talking round 1, then I am a little more gun shy on blokes like Trenners and Petracca or potentials like Darcy Parish or Sam Weideman. Roos has tried to make it a policy of making the kids kick the door down before they get a game. He hasn't stuck to this dogmatically as sometimes the alternatives to the kids have been worse but I see no reason why he wouldn't maintain this policy for the draft class of this year or Petracca. I wouldn't let them straight into the team either. We have seen how allowing Christian Salem a grace period before he gained a senior berth benefited him as it has with Billy Stretch, Harmes and ANB.

Trenners is basically playing for his career this year and has yet to have a run even in the VFL yet. I would say you will see him at Casey for a bit before he comes into the seniors if his form warrants it.
That's not to say that the guys I just mentioned won't be in the starting 22 by years end but that's what I think.

It may surprise some to see that the draft class of 2008-2011 that I have decried are still in my team (namely Watts and Grimes). I suspect that Roosy will have them in round one but will basically be keeping his eye on Casey to see who their replacements will be if they don't turn it around this year.

Yeah, Paul Roos says hi mate. He picks Dawes over Pedo every time.

Maybe it's not others who are kidding themselves...

Except of course before Pedo was injured and Dawes played a game or two in the VFL and Roos said Dawes had to get some form to get back in the 1's.

B: Jetta Dunn Garland

HB: Melksham McDonald Salem

C: Lumumba Vince Brayshaw

HF: Vandenberg Hogan Watts

FF: Garlett Dawes Kennedy

R: Gawn, Jones, Viney

Int: Bugg, Newton, Grimes, Stretch

If we are talking round 1, then I am a little more gun shy on blokes like Trenners and Petracca or potentials like Darcy Parish or Sam Weideman. Roos has tried to make it a policy of making the kids kick the door down before they get a game. He hasn't stuck to this dogmatically as sometimes the alternatives to the kids have been worse but I see no reason why he wouldn't maintain this policy for the draft class of this year or Petracca. I wouldn't let them straight into the team either. We have seen how allowing Christian Salem a grace period before he gained a senior berth benefited him as it has with Billy Stretch, Harmes and ANB.

Trenners is basically playing for his career this year and has yet to have a run even in the VFL yet. I would say you will see him at Casey for a bit before he comes into the seniors if his form warrants it.

That's not to say that the guys I just mentioned won't be in the starting 22 by years end but that's what I think.

It may surprise some to see that the draft class of 2008-2011 that I have decried are still in my team (namely Watts and Grimes). I suspect that Roosy will have them in round one but will basically be keeping his eye on Casey to see who their replacements will be if they don't turn it around this year.

FWIW Trengove and Grimes will struggle to get games given our new trades and impending draft picks ( Will be backups only!)

Except of course before Pedo was injured and Dawes played a game or two in the VFL and Roos said Dawes had to get some form to get back in the 1's.

You mean when Dawes played 1 VFL game as a warm up when coming back from injury and then played the next week.... Sure

I think the Pedo Vs Dawes debate will be moot by the end of the year with one of Frost/Smith/Pick 7? moving into the second tall forward (p/t ruck) role.

Smith could be ideal with his leap, agility and basketball background to (like Frost) pitch hit in the ruck despite being a bit small.

Also "Betty" is another who could create himself into forward-ruck roll.

FWIW Trengove and Grimes will struggle to get games given our new trades and impending draft picks ( Will be backups only!)

That may be as the case as the year progresses. If I know how Roos coaches though, he isn't going to force his revolution through the palace gates in one week. Some blokes like Grimes will get games due to the fact that they are a known quantity (for all that is good and bad with that).

I think Trenners should be given at least a chance to show his wares. Whether he is physically up for it for the long term is another matter but he should at least be given some games. I also think that if he is able to get back to what he was pre 2012 then he is in no way, shape or form a 'backup'. People tend to forget how good he was before he was made captain and stuffing his foot up.

Nothing would excite me more then Trengove mak8ng it back to footy the same way Robbie Gray did. He deserves the success thats brewing within the next couple of years.

I think the Pedo Vs Dawes debate will be moot by the end of the year with one of Frost/Smith/Pick 7? moving into the second tall forward (p/t ruck) role.

Smith could be ideal with his leap, agility and basketball background to (like Frost) pitch hit in the ruck despite being a bit small.

Also "Betty" is another who could create himself into forward-ruck roll.

'By the end of the year' is a very restricting timeline; Frost needs to learn how to play forward as he couldn't in 2015, Smith is an unknown, undersized, and, I'm assuming, raw, and Pick 7 is very much up in the air, possibly undersized and 18 years old.

Expecting 2017 to see one of those three take over the 2nd tall Fwd/Back up ruck role is asking a bit IMO.

The heated debate over Pedo and Dawes of itself shows how much we need a new option. At best both of them are very average role players over the course of a season. Someone like Max King coming on quickly to play forward/ruck would add significantly our forward line. Although I suspect he is more a 2017-18 proposition.

Nothing would excite me more then Trengove mak8ng it back to footy the same way Robbie Gray did. He deserves the success thats brewing within the next couple of years.

Yes, all the players deemed good enough that have stuck around deserve to be on the ride up the ladder.

The two Captain Jacks, Colin, Lynden, and Nathan.

Even Neville stuck around when he wasn't deemed good enough.

The heated debate over Pedo and Dawes of itself shows how much we need a new option. At best both of them are very average role players over the course of a season. Someone like Max King coming on quickly to play forward/ruck would add significantly our forward line. Although I suspect he is more a 2017-18 proposition.

King is coming into his 3rd year and would be, with Frost, the only players on, or about to be on, our list that would be a chance to usurp Dawes and Pedersen to the 2nd Fwd/Back up ruck role.

But Gawn took 6 years to establish himself, so King will still need time before we can even see whether he is up to it.

IMO our improvement next year will come from the fact that these players missed huge parts of the year and will make the team better should they play most of the year:

Frost played 3 out of 23

Salem 10 of 23

Tyson 15 of 23

Pederson 7 of 23

Kent 4 of 23

Petracca 0 of 23

Viney 16 of 23

55 games played from top 22 players out of a possible 161

If these players play 140 games next year, we will improve significantly.

But the problem is that another 7 players will have an injury riddled year next year.

IMO our improvement next year will come from the fact that these players missed huge parts of the year and will make the team better should they play most of the year:

Frost played 3 out of 23

Salem 10 of 23

Tyson 15 of 23

Pederson 7 of 23

Kent 4 of 23

Petracca 0 of 23

Viney 16 of 23

55 games played from top 22 players out of a possible 161

If these players play 140 games next year, we will improve significantly.

Honestly, if Pedo plays most of the year then we are not improving.