On 31/07/2015 at 03:58, Moonshadow said:

Can we play bingo from this thread with these 8 points?

http://m.dailylife.com.au/news-and-views/dl-opinion/eight-things-racists-say-to-try-and-convince-people-theyre-not-being-racist-20150731-giohbl.html

Thankfully we miss a few of them (so far). A quick look at facebook or the HS and you would cover these off in a matter of seconds, sometimes in the one post!

I want to put on the record that I totally support Adam Goodes in all that he says about Indigenous Australians and the work he does. It is brilliant and more needs to be done.

How he reacted to the "ape" call was completely appropriate, even if the girl was young he needed to make a stand and he wasn't to know she was so young.

I have no issue with him being Australian of the Year (for a start he didn't elect himself into this role) and I totally support his speech which I only recently heard in full for the first time.

He's one of the best players, most talented, durable and versatile players we have seen in recent years with and should be remembered as such.

Anyone who boos from here on in is a disgrace because like it or not he has now stated he interprets the boos as racist.

But, outside of all of this he does have a reputation for being a bit of a sniper and thug and seemed to get away with a lot with the MRP (not his fault).

Two weeks before the incident with the young girl there was a lot of media attention on Goodes and the way he played, sparked by comments made by Dermot Brereton after he crudely slid into Josh Gibson. He was also booed in 2010 during the Melbourne game and 2011 during an Essendon game, not as regularly but it did happen.

This is where it gets messy, a lot of people were upset with Goodes for how he played. The fact that he was a star of the game probably escalated things in this regard, then two weeks later we have the incident with the young girl.

My point, as it has always been we cannot assume that all previous boos were for standing up to the young girl, for being Australian of the Year or what he has said regarding any Indigenous issues. Like it or not a lot of people simply didn't like him and how he plays.

The booing is of poor taste and has escalated to bullying levels, but was it always racially motivated? I don't think so and to label all people who have booed him in the past as racist is unfair and a gross generalisation.

  On 31/07/2015 at 04:00, Fork said:

How about they just be Australians like the rest of us.

They have the oldest continuous culture on the planet, they, and we, should protect that with everything we have. That should be a key part of what it is to be Australian

  On 31/07/2015 at 04:00, Fork said:

How about they just be Australians like the rest of us.

Australians like the rest of us? I'm not sure I want to lumped in with all Australians (whatever that means, by the way) anyway.

  On 31/07/2015 at 04:01, Clint Bizkit said:

I want to put on the record that I totally support Adam Goodes in all that he says about Indigenous Australians and the work he does. It is brilliant and more needs to be done.

How he reacted to the "ape" call was completely appropriate, even if the girl was young he needed to make a stand and he wasn't to know she was so young.

I have no issue with him being Australian of the Year (for a start he didn't elect himself into this role) and I totally support his speech which I only recently heard in full for the first time.

He's one of the best players, most talented, durable and versatile players we have seen in recent years with and should be remembered as such.

Anyone who boos from here on in is a disgrace because like it or not he has now stated he interprets the boos as racist.

But, outside of all of this he does have a reputation for being a bit of a sniper and thug and seemed to get away with a lot with the MRP (not his fault).

Two weeks before the incident with the young girl there was a lot of media attention on Goodes and the way he played, sparked by comments made by Dermot Brereton after he crudely slid into Josh Gibson. He was also booed in 2010 during the Melbourne game and 2011 during an Essendon game, not as regularly but it did happen.

This is where it gets messy, a lot of people were upset with Goodes for how he played. The fact that he was a star of the game probably escalated things in this regard, then two weeks later we have the incident with the young girl.

My point, as it has always been we cannot assume that all previous boos were for standing up to the young girl, for being Australian of the Year or what he has said regarding any Indigenous issues. Like it or not a lot of people simply didn't like him and how he plays.

The booing is of poor taste and has escalated to bullying levels, but was it always racially motivated? I don't think so and to label all people who have booed him in the past as racist is unfair and a gross generalisation.

Which brings me back to the question I have asked you before. Why did it escalate every time he stood up for his race. If there was no racial element to it then this wouldn't be the case, he would have been getting boo'd for much longer. If it is also not racist and is about the way he plays then why were numerous other players (past and present) not boo'd every time they played?

You are right that many aren't racially motivated, but this did escalate due to racial motivations and everyone who has jumped on the bandwagon supports those motivations purely by being on the bandwagon.

  On 31/07/2015 at 04:00, Fork said:

How about they just be Australians like the rest of us.

Classic. The ol' fit in or F off.

  On 31/07/2015 at 04:11, Chris said:

Which brings me back to the question I have asked you before. Why did it escalate every time he stood up for his race. If there was no racial element to it then this wouldn't be the case, he would have been getting boo'd for much longer. If it is also not racist and is about the way he plays then why were numerous other players (past and present) not boo'd every time they played?

You are right that many aren't racially motivated, but this did escalate due to racial motivations and everyone who has jumped on the bandwagon supports those motivations purely by being on the bandwagon.

Because there were racist people booing as I have stated, but not everyone was doing it for racist reasons.

How many times do I need to write this?

Whatever - good luck Goodes. Try and revel in your last moments of relevance before you retire while you destroy what should have been an awesome legacy.

I only see toolbag, I don't see colour or race.

While people are in the sharing mood, one of the more insightful opinions I've read on this entire issue has been from Dallas Scott: http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com.au/

An Aboriginal blogger who plainly isn't terrified of the backlash that comes from being critical of Adam Goodes. A man who himself has experienced genuine racism. Some have seen fit to label him an "Uncle Tom". Pure class.

In his latest entry, he states:

"Of course, we have the regular roster of apologists come out, shaming the country and our society for cutting down a sports star who happens to have Aboriginal blood as part of his racial make-up. The caring, informed and sensitive city dwellers who, despite their alabaster skin tone and lack of racial diversity, can not only see, smell and hear racism, but tragically, are so deeply affected by it that they feel they must differentiate themselves from the white person next to them by pointing at them and screaming racist long enough and loud enough that somehow, somewhere in the midst of all their righteous shouting, their own skin tone will be forgotten or ignored."

Bang on target for mine. The very term "racist" has essentially been worn out from overuse.

  On 31/07/2015 at 04:16, Clint Bizkit said:

Because there were racist people booing as I have stated, but not everyone was doing it for racist reasons.

How many times do I need to write this?

So the marked increase was all down to racist people. Got it, we agree.

What I would argue is that by continuing to boo with the racist people is that you are condoning their views and supporting their stance. If you wish to be labelled as a racist sympathizer then go right ahead, boo Goodes, don't come crying this way though that people are saying you are racist when you align yourself with racists.

Spot on, CB, those piling on have ruined it for those of us who didn't like how he played the game. I was never a big fan of his - likened him to Boomer Harvey (shudder), but this has gone beyond his style of play and that is the unfortunate aspect that we are dealing with now.

  On 31/07/2015 at 01:28, hardtack said:

The booing of Goodes HAD NOT stopped over the past weeks at all. It had not even subsided... if anything it had become worse as the media storm seemed to inflame rather than pacify the offenders.

Had they?

I didn't notice that, but I didn't watch the whole game.

It did seem a very odd decision at the time, totally uncalled for and unnecessarily aggressive.

Couldn't heat any booing on tv, and I thought he was bringing negative attention towards himself, regardless of his intention.

  On 31/07/2015 at 04:27, P-man said:

While people are in the sharing mood, one of the more insightful opinions I've read on this entire issue has been from Dallas Scott: http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com.au/

An Aboriginal blogger who plainly isn't terrified of the backlash that comes from being critical of Adam Goodes. A man who himself has experienced genuine racism. Some have seen fit to label him an "Uncle Tom". Pure class.

In his latest entry, he states:

"Of course, we have the regular roster of apologists come out, shaming the country and our society for cutting down a sports star who happens to have Aboriginal blood as part of his racial make-up. The caring, informed and sensitive city dwellers who, despite their alabaster skin tone and lack of racial diversity, can not only see, smell and hear racism, but tragically, are so deeply affected by it that they feel they must differentiate themselves from the white person next to them by pointing at them and screaming racist long enough and loud enough that somehow, somewhere in the midst of all their righteous shouting, their own skin tone will be forgotten or ignored."

Bang on target for mine. The very term "racist" has essentially been worn out from overuse.

I don't really identify with that P-man - I don't want to have these discussions with my friends on FB. I don't feel the need to bait anyone or prove I am more enlightened than the next disingenuous white fella.

I simply don't like the arguments that people are using to base their hatred of a bloke - the booing is a sideshow to me - aside from the fact that those people are ALSO (please note also) booing alongside those that boo Goodes, Harvey, Selwood, Lewis et al.

  On 31/07/2015 at 04:07, Chris said:

They have the oldest continuous culture on the planet, they, and we, should protect that with everything we have. That should be a key part of what it is to be Australian

BS.

  On 31/07/2015 at 02:20, hardtack said:

Well, if we were hopeful that the booing would come to an end, I think this may have cruelled it...

PM calls for an end to Goodes booing

Did Abbott clear this with Bolt? Jeez, I hope our PM hasn't gone rogue.

[update: Bolt thinks it's all the fault of "the Left", so all clear, PM]

  On 31/07/2015 at 04:30, Chris said:

So the marked increase was all down to racist people. Got it, we agree.

What we don't seem to agree on is that by continuing to boo with the racist people is that you are condoning their views and supporting their stance. If you wish to be labelled as a racist sympathizer then go right ahead, boo Goodes, don't come crying this way though that people are saying you are racist when you align yourself with racists.

Whilst this is true, there will be people who will boo Goodes because they are being told not to. They will do it as a demonstration of their rights as a fan. Deluded. Stupid even. But that's how some will view it.

I'm hopeful this can be reigned in and Goodes gets to finish on a note befitting of his career, but the signs aren't good at this point.

  On 31/07/2015 at 04:30, Chris said:

So the marked increase was all down to racist people. Got it, we agree.

Let me revise, I would say racists contributed to the increase but not entirely. As I pointed out, two weeks before the incident with the girl there was a lot of media attention and angst towards Goodes based on how he played which would have contributed to the increased booing.

You're second paragraph is rubbish and should be deleted immediately as I said nothing of the sort.

  On 31/07/2015 at 04:38, Fork said:

BS.

Who has an older continuous culture Forkem? Name one!

  On 31/07/2015 at 04:40, Clint Bizkit said:

Let me revise, I would say racists contributed to the increase but not entirely. As I pointed out, two weeks before the incident with the girl there was a lot of media attention and angst towards Goodes based on how he played which would have contributed to the increased booing.

You're second paragraph is rubbish and should be deleted immediately as I said nothing of the sort.

From 2013? I can barely remember the lead up to that...

  On 31/07/2015 at 04:40, Clint Bizkit said:

Let me revise, I would say racists contributed to the increase but not entirely. As I pointed out, two weeks before the incident with the girl there was a lot of media attention and angst towards Goodes based on how he played which would have contributed to the increased booing.

You're second paragraph is rubbish and should be deleted immediately as I said nothing of the sort.

Apologies, mis-read your comment above, have altered mine to reflect.

Irrespective of everything else, I'm quite surprised at the number of people who don't like Adam Goodes as a footballer. As far as I can recall, he's the only player I have ever seen who can (or, at least, could) genuinely play every single position on the ground.

I'd be happy if some of ours could just be good in one designated position.

  On 31/07/2015 at 03:43, Moonshadow said:

Except Aly is of a minority and has some credibility and experience in racism. Whereas Bolt has verified experience as a racist.

But watching that clip he appears to have no understanding of the game, which is why it doesn't occur to him that people would boo Goodes simply for the way in which he plays the game.

They AFL has approved the ideas Jetta referred to last night on the Magarook Footy Show. http://www.theage.com.au/sport/melbourne-players-to-wear-aboriginal-colours-in-support-of-adam-goodes-20150731-gios2n.html

Both Casey and seniors will wear arm bands in the Aboriginal flag colours. The team met during the week and Nev, Jeff and Jay had the final say on. The colours will be worn on the forearm.

Nev says what a lot on here feel:

"As players, and as a club, we want to clearly show our support for Adam Goodes during what has been a really difficult time for him and his family. "We also want to show our support and help drive a message around educating Australian society on Indigenous culture.

Proud of my team and club today.

Honestly, how do we know there are any boos based on racism to begin with?

Because the media tell us?

Because, well, there's racist people out there, so there must be some percentage that are doing it for that reason?

It's all supposition.

  On 31/07/2015 at 04:54, Mach5 said:

But watching that clip he appears to have no understanding of the game, which is why it doesn't occur to him that people would boo Goodes simply for the way in which he plays the game.

Well, maybe that's got something to do with his being a Richmond supporter.