Many here still getting confused between what they would have reasonably expected and what they want.

Many here still getting confused between what they would have reasonably expected and what they want.

It is not unreasonable to expect the club to be better than bottom 4 at this stage.

I expect that after each match I'll be psychologically damaged, distraught, angry, frustrated, bemused, confused, frightened and unenlightened,

And that's only when we win.

I expected 7 to 8 wins and maybe even winning two games in a row.

I think we will be lucky to end up with 6 wins this year.

So in my book a fail.

For Roos to say we have improved and all we have to do is convert it to wins is wrong, because our skills have been deplorable.

We must have the most mentally soft list in the history of the game. WTF it just baffles me

I think you are confusing mental ability with physical ability.

This list is not as good as most people think.

It has improved since 2013 but is still bottom three. There appaers to have been some good kids added but they are still a couple of years away from being solid performers.

The area of seasoned performers is still our big weakness.

We have half a dozen good seasoned players the rest are VFL quality.

I expected two things.

I expected our best to improve on last year's. We've done that.

I also expected the gap between our best and worse to narrow (in other words, I expected our worst to be at a better level than it was last year). This we haven't done. Our worst is the same it was last year. We drop off for too long, we don't play as a team, our senior players don't step up, we fumble, we overpossess - nothing's changed when we're at our worst.

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I expected two things.

I expected our best to improve on last year's. We've done that.

I also expected the gap between our best and worse to narrow (in other words, I expected our worst to be at a better level than it was last year). This we haven't done. Our worst is the same it was last year. We drop off for too long, we don't play as a team, our senior players don't step up, we fumble, we overpossess - nothing's changed when we're at our worst.

Fair enough. I don't agree.

I think our worst is better, but only marginally.

I think the key is weeding out the turnover merchants that bring everybody else down to their level.

As Roos has stated a few times recently, one of Hawthorn's greatest assets is the value each of their players puts on their disposal.

They generally don't fumble and they don't put their teammates under pressure with rushed, messy disposals.

We often grass handballs or kicks through sloppy execution, and it snowballs.

Do some supporters really expect us to consistently compete only a season and a half removed from the Neeld/Craig era?

How can any not see some form of progress when we defeated Geelong in Geelong, for so long an impossibly ridiculous notion? Defeated certain finalists Richmond? Smashed the super impressive Bulldogs?

I keep hearing/reading that we we have witnessed this season is "simply not good enough."

What do supporters really expect?

Good point but i'm still [censored] off that a club like Footiscray is way in front of us.

Good point but i'm still [censored] off that a club like Footiscray is way in front of us.

And St Kilda

Do some supporters really expect us to consistently compete only a season and a half removed from the Neeld/Craig era?

How can any not see some form of progress when we defeated Geelong in Geelong, for so long an impossibly ridiculous notion? Defeated certain finalists Richmond? Smashed the super impressive Bulldogs?

I keep hearing/reading that we we have witnessed this season is "simply not good enough."

What do supporters really expect?

This is a good thread. I think a lot of people have forgotten just how poor we were in 2013. To expect us to play 'consistent 4 quarter footy' every week is ludicrous - literally every team in the comp wishes they could do that. I expected us to win 8 at the start of the year with 6 a pass. I think we'll at least get my pass mark with a sneaky chance of grabbing a couple more. We've had some great wins and even the fact we could play badly and still win is a step in the right direction.

Unless everyone on here is a teenager it really is remarkable how a bad loss can affect people's view of the whole season. And that could be unfair to teenagers!

I expected us to finish on the bottom and to fluke 1-2 wins so in that regards I've been pleasantly surprised.

Years of complete and utter ineptness has me conditioned to expect basically nothing from this group and they do manage to deliver quite well on that.

Do some supporters really expect us to consistently compete only a season and a half removed from the Neeld/Craig era?

How can any not see some form of progress when we defeated Geelong in Geelong, for so long an impossibly ridiculous notion? Defeated certain finalists Richmond? Smashed the super impressive Bulldogs?

I keep hearing/reading that we we have witnessed this season is "simply not good enough."What do supporters really expect?

Agree as much as we are frustrated etc I don't think people understand how poor our list & a footy club we had become from 08-13.... Our expectations on 1st & 2nd year players is too much but need to question some of the more experience players....no doubt another clean will occur

Honestly i expected 6 wins, obvious signs of player development and our best footy to match it with most teams, its just dissapointing when you beat top 8 sides and lose to bottom 6 sides i guess, don't want to become richmond

It has little to do with our amount of wins. It has everything to do with our lack of competitiveness and hunger to win. St.Kilda didn't hold us to 46 points. We held ourselves to 46 points, and it's felt like that countless times this season. Unlike under Neeld we can now play games on our own terms but there's countless stupidity that sets us back. It shouldn't be hard to generate chances for the talent of Hogan and Garlett, rather than kicking/handpassing to 1 on 3s deep on flanks and trying to pinpoint stupid centering passes with a slippery ball

Yes it's as much the style of footy as the result

I think that rjay has put it really well in another thread, when he said that these other clubs we're currently comparing ourselves with (St Kilda, Bulldogs) have ageing champion players still on the list who provide the experience and drag the kids along with them.

We haven't had that, due to needing to rebuild from a dramatically failed rebuild, rather than rebuilding from a failed premiership tilt.

Our experience has largely been brought in as cast-offs from elsewhere, meaning lesser quality, or we've had to pay for it, lessening our ability to draft in quality young talent. We have it, but the depth is still wanting.

Also, it's worth remembering that although we have been competitive at times, a great chunk of the players we are relying on are only in their first or 2nd seasons of AFL footy: Brayshaw, Stretch, ANB, Harmes, JKH, Vandenberg, Salem, Hogan.

Even Michie, Riley & Newton came to the club having played 1, 12 & 4 career AFL games respectively.

Where should our expectations reasonably be?

I'd also be cautious of overestimating the opposition, despite some of their impressive performances, much like most do at this point with us.