Post Match Discussion - Round 15

[Adam The God 30,411]

We had no one behind the forwards marking pack to crumb. They always had a player there and rebounded time sand time again.

Their defenders read it better than our forwards in that sense too and as GRRM outlined, our forwards failed to bring the ball to the ground often enough.

The only shepherd I saw today was Watts inside 50 to allow Hogan to mark and get his first shot on goal. We rarely get that from Dawes or other forwards

Wasn't Watts the one that kicked it to Hogan?

Brisbane will beat us

Rockliff and Hanley will go bananas

Hard to see where the future is for this footy club

Lol. Let's have this discussion after the game next week, HH.

Who cares how many hit outs he had? How many were effective? Hit outs is the least meaningful stat in the game.

Bang.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,602]

Newton should have played today.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

AHHHHH that wasn't what I was saying Curry. Tell me in a few words what is wrong with this lot of players and footy department.

And by the way why immediately launch into personal abuse? At least wait until you have something to abuse me about

are you serious you totally attacked me first. Anyway I was making a point about another posters' criticism of selection. For the third time, Tyson/JKH/Vandenburg in place of Bail/MJones/Michie obviously haad no bearing on the result so the criticism is unwarranted. That is all.

[Little Richard 6,265]

The irony.

That we won last year when we shouldn't have with less inside 50's;

and

this year we lost, when we really shouldn't have with more inside 50's.

Balance is restored.

In my eyes, balance won't be restored until we hammer them by 100 points or more. Then I'll begin to forget that 148 loss in 2013.

I think that one affected me more than 186 because I was there, and it was beyond pathetic. The jibes of the Essendon supporters were hard to stand that night and I can't wait until the roles are reversed.

[Adam The God 30,411]

The MFC players cannot handle a big win (referring to Geelong). 2 sub standard efforts since. Lloyd it said on radio after the game a Melbourne player told him that 5 weeks ago. Sounds like he had a reliable source.

Oh yeah. Righto. An MFC player goes up to Lloyd and says we can't handle big wins. Fark off, Lloyd.

No, those same fans have not been happy with Roos coaching for quite a while and the losses are not the issue. The issue is the poor selections, the inability to motivate the players and the one dimensional game plan. Remember this guy is paid $1.5 AUD a year. He is supposed to be one of the best, that does not appear to be the case for the majority of this season. Tyson and Vandenberg were underdone and so was Jay Kennedy Harris. We would have been better with 3 fully fit alternatives this week.

How was JKH underdone? Give me a break. Roos has done wonders for this club. He makes mistakes, no he's not a messiah, he's human, but we will see results. I still think we'll win 6-8 games this year and that's progress. I'm as [censored] as the next person that we won't be playing finals or that 6-8 wins is progress, but from where we're coming from, we're showing improvement. 10-12 wins should be our aim next year.

Press conference is up: http://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/2015-07-11/rd-15-paul-roos-media-conference

Things Roos said:

• Bad goalkicking makes things much harder (compared the 18.5 vs Geelong to the 7.18 today)
• Noted our inability to bring the ball to ground - was discussed during the game and after it, we didn't get it done
• TMac made a good contest at times as a forward
• Simple to analyse - when we went forward and made a contest, we did well, when we didn't make a contest it went straight back out
• Not always the forwards fault. We're young and the 22 haven't yet developed the required 'synergy' together
• Denied that the Essendon situation had an effect on our players mindsets
• Noted we had 10 players under 50 games and 5 or 6 first year players
• No question about it, both from a mindset perspective and a game-result perspective, missing goals hurts us
• What will we do about it? We have to practice executing under pressure
• We also have to practice 'being in that position' (i.e. being favourites)
• To avoid another fade out, need to focus on the things we did well - statistics showed we did things well
• Players feel it when you're 4.15 and losing the game despite doing well in general play
• We tried the two ruckmen thing, Gawn doing well but still has bad habits
• Viney's been 'really consistent' since returning, liked his game today
• Disappointed we haven't won since Geelong, affects confidence
• Thinks we're still playing better than we have been, but there is an 'inability to win games'

Thanks for the break down, mate. Would agree with all of those points too.

[jimcor 212]

A coupe of thoughts:

I thought a lot of our problems today related to skill errors I.e. defects that should be corrected at training or, if that proves impossible, at the delisting table. The main ones that stood out to me were:

1/- either a inability to convert a rucking win into an effective clearance. Why do our inside mids not seem to know where the ball will go or how does Gawn not know where the inside mids are running to?

2/- our forwards were consistently unable to take a contested mark whereas their backs seemed unable to miss one.

3/- our pathetic goal-kicking. Couldn't understand why the likes of Bernie Vince and so many others couldn't execute the most basic of skills today. Sure, some misses were completely understandable and,as such, acceptable BUT there were many which there was no excuse for whatsoever. If everyone knows that Tom Mac is an unreliable kick why didn't someone insist on a handball so that they could take a bit of responsibility?

From what I've seen at training, the rucks are trained to win hitouts rather than to hit the ball to what used to be called a 'rover'. Perhaps that needs to be addressed. Also, at training, TM almost always kicks accurately but it is meaningless if there is no actual pressure being applied. Maybe we need to use AVDB, Riley, Vineyard, Brayshaw at training as attack dogs and risk the odd injury.

Overall, a really disappointing performance with,in my view, the exceptions of Gawn's absolute dominance in the hitouts, Garland and Watts.

[chookrat 4,268]

FMD. You can't be this dumb surely? How have you STILL not wrapped your tiny brain around the fact that it was the quality of disposal today? Our 4 most important midfielders wasted half their disposals.

Far out.

Stuie - this is a personal and derogatory post to one of our supporters. have an opinion but do so without calling someone dumb or suggesting they have a tiny brain.

[stuie 7,374]

Stuie - this is a personal and derogatory post to one of our supporters. have an opinion but do so without calling someone dumb or suggesting they have a tiny brain.

Maybe have a read of a few of the posts that lead to that one mate, it didn't come from nowhere.

[Adam The God 30,411]

Did I say ALL of them were difficult?

You really think McDonald is a high percentage to kick a goal from the boundary line? Talk about clutching at straws...

Every time McDonald has the ball in his hands, I expect the absolute worst. One of the worst kicks I've ever seen. Simon Godfrey was better, I reckon. So I agree with you that some were tougher than others, but we missed at least 10 very gettable shots. You don't win games of footy if that happens and when it is so severe, like it was today, it really does become a mental thing. It deflates the team doing the hard work to get the scoring shot and then perks up the opposition.

We missed the chances today that we took against Geelong. But overall it wasn't nearly the same level of quality forward entries.

The game was lost 3 different ways in 3 different quarters:

2nd - terrible forward entries

3rd - terrible lack of ball movement and control of the contest, poor one on one defending

4th - missed chances by McDonald, Viney etc to get the lead

Yeah, the ball movement in Geelong was the best I can remember from a Melbourne team. I'm still stoked I was at the game, because it's such a bloody rarity.

Rubbish. The 'mature bodies' we didn't play are all absolute battlers, hence why they never stay in the team. We have to play the kids, they are our future.

Dawes, Howe, Garland, McDonald, Tyson and many others are the reason we lost. Not the kids.

Look at the stats sheet, Essendon's kids did no better than ours. But enough of their senior players stood up.

Tyson and McDonald are still kids too.

Gawn was good around the ground and won most of the hit outs - which were nearly all ineffective i agree

Yeah, but I'd also love to know the hit out stats for the third term. That was the term that it seemed to me that Gawn struggled to win the centre hit out. It showed, given they kicks 6 goals to our 1.

[SaberFang 7,151]

It's just puzzling to me that a team can be so wildly different from week to week. We looked amazing against Geelong but look so pedestrian today.

The conditions are surely partly to blame for the poor accuracy on goal? To think the weather of all things may have dictated the game.

[Moonshadow 17,677]

Maybe have a read of a few of the posts that lead to that one mate, it didn't come from nowhere.

Translation:

"Awww, but they started it..."

[Fork 'em 6,991]

It's just puzzling to me that a team can be so wildly different from week to week. We looked amazing against Geelong but look so pedestrian today.

Geelong game was an anomaly.

We just reverted back to standard operating procedure..

[SaberFang 7,151]

Jesus, the Essendon supporters who've overtaken the game day thread on BF are insufferable.

I literally could not despise a more ignorant, pathetic, braindead bunch of morons any more than Drug Cheat supporters.

[Roger Mellie 4,103]

A question:

Playing Howe week after week and knowing he's not going to have much of a crack - is that just taking the pi55?

We may as well go in with one less player, with all this unaccountable, occasionally flashy bollocks.

I'm just not sure what sort of message it sends to other players, knowing they've got to carry some one with chronic passengeritis.

[SaberFang 7,151]

A question:

Playing Howe week after week and knowing he's not going to have much of a crack - is that just taking the pi55?

We may as well go in with one less player, with all this unaccountable, occasionally flashy bollocks.

I'm just not sure what sort of message it sends to other players, knowing they've got to carry some one with chronic passengeritis.

It makes a mockery of Roos claiming you need to earn games. I'd love to know what the players in the twos think about it, and the Frawley situation last year.

[Adam The God 30,411]

A coupe of thoughts:

I thought a lot of our problems today related to skill errors I.e. defects that should be corrected at training or, if that proves impossible, at the delisting table. The main ones that stood out to me were:

1/- either a inability to convert a rucking win into an effective clearance. Why do our inside mids not seem to know where the ball will go or how does Gawn not know where the inside mids are running to?

2/- our forwards were consistently unable to take a contested mark whereas their backs seemed unable to miss one.

3/- our pathetic goal-kicking. Couldn't understand why the likes of Bernie Vince and so many others couldn't execute the most basic of skills today. Sure, some misses were completely understandable and,as such, acceptable BUT there were many which there was no excuse for whatsoever. If everyone knows that Tom Mac is an unreliable kick why didn't someone insist on a handball so that they could take a bit of responsibility?

From what I've seen at training, the rucks are trained to win hitouts rather than to hit the ball to what used to be called a 'rover'. Perhaps that needs to be addressed. Also, at training, TM almost always kicks accurately but it is meaningless if there is no actual pressure being applied. Maybe we need to use AVDB, Riley, Vineyard, Brayshaw at training as attack dogs and risk the odd injury.

Overall, a really disappointing performance with,in my view, the exceptions of Gawn's absolute dominance in the hitouts, Garland and Watts.

Because he has a Plan A and a Plan B. 1) A very good and aggressive forward tap, where one of our other mids blocks for Bernie Vince or Nathan Jones and it gets whisked away for a clean clearance. Or 2) This dinky right or left handed look-away reverse tap over the back. He did this in the 41 seconds against St Kilda and said that he'd learnt from it, but he continues to do it. I reckon I've seen it come off a handful of times ever and he is now doing it more than ever before.

Don't even get me started on his tapping into space, goal-side in defensive 50, where there are no MFC players. He did it at least 2 or 3 times today. It just puts our defenders and mids under extreme pressure.

Gawn either needs to tell his team mates where he's tapping to or his team mates need to know where it's going, otherwise he needs to stop doing it. It's really as simple as that. If he keeps doing it, he's nullifying his influence in the ruck and actually handing it to the opposition. Ultimately, I think it comes down to midfield set ups, midfield rules and clear communication. Goodwin and Stafford need to be on top of this.

Edited July 11, 2015 by AdamFarr

[chook fowler 19,546]

Stuie - this is a personal and derogatory post to one of our supporters. have an opinion but do so without calling someone dumb or suggesting they have a tiny brain.

Yeah, save that for the opposition and politicians.

[Redleg 41,432]

Besides our woeful kicking for goal today and our woeful kicking into the forward line, I thought one of the biggest factors in the loss,was after winning a stoppage, we tried a little handball, instead of a kick forward, which multiple times was turned over and led to Bomber goals.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Redleg

[Adam The God 30,411]

It's just puzzling to me that a team can be so wildly different from week to week. We looked amazing against Geelong but look so pedestrian today.

The conditions are surely partly to blame for the poor accuracy on goal? To think the weather of all things may have dictated the game.

Unfortunately, we're gonna be served this sort of stuff semi-regularly, with so many inexperienced players on our list and indeed in our best 22. Even the blokes who are considered a little more experienced are under 22 years of age.

A question:

Playing Howe week after week and knowing he's not going to have much of a crack - is that just taking the pi55?

We may as well go in with one less player, with all this unaccountable, occasionally flashy bollocks.

I'm just not sure what sort of message it sends to other players, knowing they've got to carry some one with chronic passengeritis.

I wonder if Howe's general attitude and unwillingness to work hard is rubbing off on Hogan? He was pretty petulant today.

Edited July 11, 2015 by AdamFarr

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Besides our woeful kicking for goal today and our woeful kicking into the forward line, I thought one of the biggest factors in the loss,was after winning a stoppage, we tried a little handball, instead of a kick forward, which multiple times was turned over and led to Bomber goals.

Yes but the exact antithesis of what you are saying is what others are complaining about: that we bombed long and aimlessly into the enemy's hands

[chook fowler 19,546]

There is no sugar coating, explaining or excusing this loss. It should never have happened and has exposed the soft underbelly that exists within this club.

There should be plenty of sore arses tomorrow from firmly applied boots.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I wonder if Howe's attitude and unwillingness to work hard is rubbing off on Hogan? He was pretty petulant today.

Maybe if they were a pair of 2-3 year old brothers in a playroom, but we are talking about grown men and professional footballers

[SaberFang 7,151]

I wonder if Howe's general attitude and unwillingness to work hard is rubbing off on Hogan? He was pretty petulant today.

It all contributes to a [censored] poor culture which our club clearly has.

Roos comes out and bangs on about "earning" games, then two years running keeps players in the squad who aren't even committed to the club.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Lamashtu

[Return to Glory 8,448]

Unfortunately, we're gonna be served this sort of stuff semi-regularly, with so many inexperienced players on our list and best 22. Even the blokes who are considered a little more experienced are under 22 years of age.

I wonder if Howe's attitude and unwillingness to work is rubbing off on Hogan? He was pretty petulant today.

The inexperience call is probably pretty true. I'm not sure about the Howe influence.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

There is no sugar coating, explaining or excusing this loss. It should never have happened and has exposed the soft underbelly that exists within this club.

There should be plenty of sore arses tomorrow from firmly applied boots.

How many times in the last 16 years could we have made such an assessment after a loss. The club assumedly applies such boots, nothing changes.