This guy...

The non druggos are laughing at you pal. Have another hit.

In Asia? Wouldn't want to make sweeping generalisations, like asking someone who believes in drug decriminalisation if they're a user, but sounds like you're quite accepting of the local laissez fair attitude toward prostitution.

What a phlog.

The "girls" are the dealers/buyers, because you cant trust the guys on the street.

Take your "sweeping generalisations", and belt them up your ars, you racist [censored]

Getting back to the subject...

It's going to be interesting to watch how the AFL handle this. It was obvious from the start that it wasn't just NRL players involved, so far Dill and his crew have been able to sweep things under the carpet.

Can they isolate it to the Suns and find a scapegoat or will they come clean. I doubt it.

AFL and integrity don't really go together at all.

I have a gangly black humanoid figure as an avatar so I clearly can't be racist. But your suggestion that I belt sweeping generalisations up my censored as a punitive measure rather than something that might be enjoyable makes me think that you could be possibly homophobic.

So did Harmichael ACTUALLY feel better on Swisse?

??? time is running out

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Bullschit

I said that drugs here are very cheap, and easily obtained. (One of the arguments put forward to legalise them, to prevent crime)

I then said that the fact they are illegal, and would result in a lead pellet death, is good enough reason for me to stay away.

Try to make sense next time.

You said that the threat of jail, or having a lead pellet shot through my chest, provide me with enough reasons to stay away from the very very available hard drugs that I come across here. Very cheap, available for home delivery, and very potent. The bullet in your chest might deter you, but clearly it's not much of a deterrent for the obviously large numbers consuming the very cheap, very potent hard stuff.

For everyone in my social circles, the deterrent for not doing hard drugs (or any drugs) is the risk of getting addicted and ruining our lives. Nobody I know gives a rats tossbag if it's illegal - in my experience for most people who want to experiment or use infrequently, getting caught is an acceptable risk - getting hooked isn't. I can't imagine the risk of getting in trouble with the police ever outweighing the risk of having your life destroyed by an addiction.

Try not to be so needlessly aggressive next time.

The non druggos are laughing at you pal. Have another hit.

Dude, read my original post again slowly or ask someone to explain it to you.

Humour is unrecognisable to the witless.

Getting back to the subject...

It's going to be interesting to watch how the AFL handle this. It was obvious from the start that it wasn't just NRL players involved, so far Dill and his crew have been able to sweep things under the carpet.

Can they isolate it to the Suns and find a scapegoat or will they come clean. I doubt it.

AFL and integrity don't really go together at all.

I think we will be fed the "full investigation" line whilst in reality all players will be told to stfu.

The club, afl and players will close ranks on this and the official line will be that it will be dealt with under the Afl illicit drugs policy.

You said that the threat of jail, or having a lead pellet shot through my chest, provide me with enough reasons to stay away from the very very available hard drugs that I come across here. Very cheap, available for home delivery, and very potent. The bullet in your chest might deter you, but clearly it's not much of a deterrent for the obviously large numbers consuming the very cheap, very potent hard stuff.

For everyone in my social circles, the deterrent for not doing hard drugs (or any drugs) is the risk of getting addicted and ruining our lives. Nobody I know gives a rats tossbag if it's illegal - in my experience for most people who want to experiment or use infrequently, getting caught is an acceptable risk - getting hooked isn't. I can't imagine the risk of getting in trouble with the police ever outweighing the risk of having your life destroyed by an addiction.

Try not to be so needlessly aggressive next time.

it's a very sad reflection nasher (but I suspect true) that nowadays many people don't "give a rats tossbag if it's illegal" or care of "the risk of getting in trouble with the police"

and this attitude is not restricted to just drug use

it's a very sad reflection nasher (but I suspect true) that nowadays many people don't "give a rats tossbag if it's illegal" or care of "the risk of getting in trouble with the police"

and this attitude is not restricted to just drug use

It's probably a reflection that over time the law has drifted away from where people's moral compasses are naturally aligned, so they have stopped using it as a guideline for behaviour. It just hasn't kept up with social progress.

I don't steal cars, bash people, drive recklessly or take drugs, and that is because I think that I shouldn't, not because they're illegal. Education in my case has proven to be a far more effective tool than the threat of being charged.

I actually think your on the money here. Portugal decriminalized all drugs in 2001. The results have been outstanding.

http://mic.com/articles/110344/14-years-after-portugal-decriminalized-all-drugs-here-s-what-s-happening

Careful WWS, wouldn't want facts to get in the way of a good dose of ignorant moral outrage.

It's probably a reflection that over time the law has drifted away from where people's moral compasses are naturally aligned, so they have stopped using it as a guideline for behaviour. It just hasn't kept up with social progress.

I don't steal cars, bash people, drive recklessly or take drugs, and that is because I think that I shouldn't, not because they're illegal. Education in my case has proven to be a far more effective tool than the threat of being charged.

are you sure people's moral compasses are naturally aligned?

more likely the moral compass has drifted rather than the law, methinks

but each to their own opinions

It's probably a reflection that over time the law has drifted away from where people's moral compasses are naturally aligned, so they have stopped using it as a guideline for behaviour. It just hasn't kept up with social progress.

I don't steal cars, bash people, drive recklessly or take drugs, and that is because I think that I shouldn't, not because they're illegal. Education in my case has proven to be a far more effective tool than the threat of being charged.

Unfortunately for many, education has no effect.

When your life is already a train wreck, being told drugs are bad for you is hardly a message you will take on board.

When your life is already a train wreck, being told drugs are bad for you is hardly a message you will take on board.

Being told they're illegal doesn't seem to be helping much, either.

It's probably a reflection that over time the law has drifted away from where people's moral compasses are naturally aligned, so they have stopped using it as a guideline for behaviour. It just hasn't kept up with social progress.

I don't steal cars, bash people, drive recklessly or take drugs, and that is because I think that I shouldn't, not because they're illegal. Education in my case has proven to be a far more effective tool than the threat of being charged.

Well put, Nasher. The legal system is still prone to punishing the victimless crime too often, and people see the illogic of it, thus are prepared to 'flaunt' the law. A soft example is jaywalking. Most police persons will use discretion, but I have known of some ludicrous arbitrary enforcement. Also, it wasn't that long ago that homosexual 'behaviour' was being legally punished.

are you sure people's moral compasses are naturally aligned?

more likely the moral compass has drifted rather than the law, methinks

but each to their own opinions

No - moral compasses have progressed, and the law has remained stationary. By effect, the two have naturally drifted apart.

The idea of the law driving my moral compass is completely foreign to me. It just doesn't resonate with me at all. Maybe it's a Gen Y thing, though I bet people have been committing minor law infringements since there was such thing as laws. I don't reckon anyone could ever say they haven't done things that in the eyes of the law are illegal, and don't feel at all guilty about it.

The law only deters me from doing things I probably wouldn't do anyway.

Being told they're illegal doesn't seem to be helping much, either.

That's for sure...

I don't know the answer but I think it's a whole lot deeper than prohibition and/or education. There are many disaffected people in society, but how do we fix that.

Careful WWS, wouldn't want facts to get in the way of a good dose of ignorant moral outrage.

If the Portuguese situation is similar to ours then the large amount of heroin available fifteen years ago could account for the spike in drug related deaths.

Heroin is more likely to kill you. I would imagine it would be a similar looking graph here.

I don't think decriminalisation of hard drugs is the answer but I think in this situation the question should be...why are these young men willing to take part in a stupid, dangerous and illegal activity?

If the Portuguese situation is similar to ours then the large amount of heroin available fifteen years ago could account for the spike in drug related deaths.

Heroin is more likely to kill you. I would imagine it would be a similar looking graph here.

I don't think decriminalisation of hard drugs is the answer but I think in this situation the question should be...why are these young men willing to take part in a stupid, dangerous and illegal activity?

We know Jabberwocky, that young men are neuropsychologically predisposed to risk taking behaviour, as witnessed in increased drug deaths as you say, and otherwise most notably car deaths. Sadly, I think you're on a hiding to nothing trying to modify that behaviour intrinsically, barring chemical therapy! There are otherwise so many parts to this problem, such as loss of community, diminished physicality, absence of relatable models, and intangible others. I agree entirely with your last sentence, except the consequence of illegality. As others have written on here, once you get past the stupid and dangerous bit, illegality is irrelevant. In fact taking heroin is a victimless crime. That criminality is associated with it produces all manner of criminal consequence of course, but on its own it doesn't hurt anyone but the user, and those in distress at seeing a wasted existence. Horrible stuff, but criminalising it doesn't make it less so.

Demonland definitely needs a footy game this weekend.

No - moral compasses have progressed, and the law has remained stationary. By effect, the two have naturally drifted apart.

The idea of the law driving my moral compass is completely foreign to me. It just doesn't resonate with me at all. Maybe it's a Gen Y thing, though I bet people have been committing minor law infringements since there was such thing as laws. I don't reckon anyone could ever say they haven't done things that in the eyes of the law are illegal, and don't feel at all guilty about it.

The law only deters me from doing things I probably wouldn't do anyway.

well i never claimed the law should totally drive societies moral compass.

i agree the law is slow to move (sometimes for good reasons)

i disagree that societies moral compass has progressed

i would say societies moral compass has regressed

so lets just agree to disagree

I started off by just saying that (in general) a growing disrespect for the laws of the land was a sad reflection on today's society. I wasn't meaning that to just mean drugs either. I haven't seen anything here to dissuade me from that reflection (whatever the reasons for it are)

Whilst using and possessing drugs remain against statute in theory, in application no one does a custodial sentence for them as offences on thier own anymore.

There are drug diversion programs through the courts and cautions issued by police which are designed to get treatment and keep people out of the court system.

I started off by just saying that (in general) a growing disrespect for the laws of the land was a sad reflection on today's society. I wasn't meaning that to just mean drugs either. I haven't seen anything here to dissuade me from that reflection (whatever the reasons for it are)

I don't know for sure as I can only comment on my own experience, but I theorise that people have always been willing to break the law when it suited them, it's just that historically this has been masked by the closer alignment of the laws and people's moral compasses. I don't think the disrespect is growing per se, just the divide between social progress and the law.

Happy to agree to disagree - particularly on the matter of whether socially we are progressing or regressing.

I don't know for sure as I can only comment on my own experience, but I theorise that people have always been willing to break the law when it suited them, it's just that historically this has been masked by the closer alignment of the laws and people's moral compasses. I don't think the disrespect is growing per se, just the divide between social progress and the law.

Happy to agree to disagree - particularly on the matter of whether socially we are progressing or regressing.

we weren't talking about "socially" progressing or not but "morally" - there is a difference (though some overlap for sure)