Open Mike: Todd Viney

[daisycutter 30,004]

  On 06/05/2015 at 03:03, olisik said:

Pretty sure Emma Quayle had us taking Wines in her mock draft which would imply that he would've been best for us at that pick

pretty sure she had toumpas going before our pick too. oli, so your point is moot

[bing181 9,472]

  On 06/05/2015 at 03:04, Sir Why You Little said:

Nobody can suss out an ATTITUDE via youtube or watching from the Grandstand.

Hasn't stopped you.

[Sir Why You Little 37,450]

  On 06/05/2015 at 05:10, bing181 said:

Hasn't stopped you.

Excuse me?

How many victories have we seen since 2007???

[nutbean 8,838]

  On 06/05/2015 at 04:23, Sir Why You Little said:

toumpas does not have the attitude for the midfield.

Can you really see him playing a vote winning game in September Nut?

  On 06/05/2015 at 04:50, Sir Why You Little said:

Toumpas. Sorry he just aint got it. We picked all the wrong attitudes under Schwab. The only reason we got Viney was F/S

Attitude & Aptitude are so important that so many recruiters do not factor in nearly enough.

As i said earlier Branson's empire is built on attitude. The rest can be taught because it is reputition. Attitude is the drive

In answer to your question about him playing a vote winning game in the grand final - I hope Jimmy comes good - my head is telling me he is a bust - I hope he proves me wrong.

I have never argued that on what I am seeing now that Toumpas will get close to the dizzying heights of Wines.

I am arguing about what we knew at draft time.

Here is one more quote for you

"Now Mark Neeld has some tough cattle.

Lets go.."

That was posted in the welcome to Jimmy Toumpas thread the day he was drafted by ummm....hmmm.. you !

There has been questions aplenty about Jimmy's ferocity and attack on the ball - however on draft day you put Jimmy into the tough cattle class....

[Sir Why You Little 37,450]

  On 06/05/2015 at 05:26, nutbean said:

In answer to your question about him playing a vote winning game in the grand final - I hope Jimmy comes good - my head is telling me he is a bust - I hope he proves me wrong.

I have never argued that on what I am seeing now that Toumpas will get close to the dizzying heights of Wines.

I am arguing about what we knew at draft time.

Here is one more quote for you

"Now Mark Neeld has some tough cattle.

Lets go.."

That was posted in the welcome to Jimmy Toumpas thread the day he was drafted by ummm....hmmm.. you !

There has been questions aplenty about Jimmy's ferocity and attack on the ball - however on draft day you put Jimmy into the tough cattle class....

yes i did Nut because i knew nothing about him & if we did pick him then i had to summize he was better than Wines who i had followed.

But from game one Jimmy was a baby and still is.

I would love to see him rip it up but it isn't going to happen. We are down a player

Wines attitude is flat out goer

[rjay 25,424]

  On 06/05/2015 at 04:29, Macca said:

It would be great if one of these harry hindsight types could show some foresight (now) and name the player we should have picked if either Petracca or Brayshaw aren't A graders

Jordan De Goey

...but I do think Brayshaw will be an A grader. The only doubt I have with Petracca is his knee, if it's a one off then he will make it as a strong HF/mid.

Also think ANB will be close to the mark.

[nutbean 8,838]

  On 06/05/2015 at 05:33, Sir Why You Little said:

yes i did Nut because i knew nothing about him & if we did pick him then i had to summize he was better than Wines who i had followed.

But from game one Jimmy was a baby and still is.

I would love to see him rip it up but it isn't going to happen. We are down a player

Wines attitude is flat out goer

So then I don't understand why you find it so hard to accept that at SANFL level/pre draft Toumpas looked to the recruiters a better pick than Wines ?

From the first game of the preseason AFTER the draft at AFL level Wines has proven to be everything that Jimmy is not - that is a sad fact.

I think where you and I will always disagree ( and I include Paul Roos in the "I" category as he stated the same) - you have an expectation that a player that is drafted pick 2, 3 or 4 will be better than someone picked 10,11 or 12. The history of every draft tells you that this is just not the case. As Roos has said - at draft time we don't have enough exposed form against open competition and most kids come in with deficiencies - especially in the defensive side of their game.

No amount of due diligence is ever going to allow us to have confidence that a pick number 4 is going to be better than the picks that follow - history has shown us that. Wines was not the better option predraft but certainly is after 3 years of exposed form. But Grundy now is probably going to outperform his 18 pick ranking- fyfe at 20 something - just wow and Bontempelli on form should have gone pick one.

[Macca 17,127]

  On 06/05/2015 at 05:38, rjay said:

Jordan De Goey

...but I do think Brayshaw will be an A grader. The only doubt I have with Petracca is his knee, if it's a one off then he will make it as a strong HF/mid.

Also think ANB will be close to the mark.

So you'd do a swap for Brayshaw with De Goey now ... right.

You can't pick the bloke who's done his knee - that's way too convenient rjay

Also, you can't have De Goey in "reserve" either ... not allowed :-)

[nutbean 8,838]

SWYL - you dismiss the journalists and their drafts - but the top journo's do watch and do talk to talent scouts and recruiters - they are basing the rankings on what they have seen and what they have heard.

I actually think that these journo's are pretty well spot in predicting the ORDER in which the players will be drafted. What they are not good at is getting the output of each player in the draft during their career. Every draft order since inception would look completely different in retrospect given the exposed form we now have.

I did get to a point where I think we should dismiss the "rankings" which seem to become formalised close to draft time and go with exactly who we think is the best option.

If you draw a line through the drafts and look at picks taken where they were thought to be ranked - sooo many are just wrong ( in our case - Watts, Toumpas, Scully, Trengove..etc)

If you draw a line through the drafts and look at the picks that were taken early than their ranking - soooo many are just wrong ( in our case - Cook, Strauss, Gysberts etc)

I have reconciled myself that the draft is a turkey shoot and some will work out and some won't.

[rjay 25,424]

  On 06/05/2015 at 06:00, Macca said:

So you'd do a swap for Brayshaw with De Goey now ... right.

You can't pick the bloke who's done his knee - that's way too convenient rjay

Also, you can't have De Goey in "reserve" either ... not allowed :-)

Not picking anyone 'Macca', I think we got it right.

...reckon De Goey will be alright though, also think we have another sneaky in ANB. Stretch will also be a good pick.

This will go down as a good draft for us.

[nutbean 8,838]

  On 06/05/2015 at 06:11, rjay said:

Not picking anyone 'Macca', I think we got it right.

...reckon De Goey will be alright though, also think we have another sneaky in ANB. Stretch will also be a good pick.

This will go down as a good draft for us.

The only one I am prepared to commit on is Brayshaw. In the few games this season I think he has shown he has enough tools to be very good. If I learned anything from drafting is that "time will tell" is the only safe bet.

[Ted Lasso 19,586]

Brayshaw is far more impressive than degoey imo

[Macca 17,127]

  On 06/05/2015 at 06:11, rjay said:

Not picking anyone 'Macca', I think we got it right.

...reckon De Goey will be alright though, also think we have another sneaky in ANB. Stretch will also be a good pick.

This will go down as a good draft for us.

Hope you're right rjay

I've never really gone in to making big calls on young players but from what I've seen from Hogan & Brayshaw so far, our luck might be finally turning ... and there is a fair slice of luck involved with drafting teenagers

[dazzledavey36 56,285]

F me!

SWYL do yourself a favour and much down to aimee park and go and confront Todd Viney himself and find the answers there and tell him what you really think. Because it quite bloody obvious your going to sulk and scream over this until our next premiership comes along.

Whats done is done! Kicking and screaming isn't going to change the past. You know what it wouldn't matter what anser you got from Viney your a sad old fart that will never be satisfied at all.

Back to the topic i enjoyed his interview. I forget at times he was a premiership assistant coach at the Hawks. Interesting he mentioned that when he was at Adelaide he decided he wanted to be a senior coach.

[Members' Wing 1,106]

  On 06/05/2015 at 06:27, dazzledavey36 said:

F me!

SWYL do yourself a favour and much down to aimee park and go and confront Todd Viney himself and find the answers there and tell him what you really think. Because it quite bloody obvious your going to sulk and scream over this until our next premiership comes along.

Whats done is done! Kicking and screaming isn't going to change the past. You know what it wouldn't matter what anser you got from Viney your a sad old fart that will never be satisfied at all.

Back to the topic i enjoyed his interview. I forget at times he was a premiership assistant coach at the Hawks. Interesting he mentioned that when he was at Adelaide he decided he wanted to be a senior coach.

He said that's when he realised he DIDN'T want to be a senior coach

[Sir Why You Little 37,450]

  On 06/05/2015 at 06:27, dazzledavey36 said:

F me!

SWYL do yourself a favour and much down to aimee park and go and confront Todd Viney himself and find the answers there and tell him what you really think. Because it quite bloody obvious your going to sulk and scream over this until our next premiership comes along.

Whats done is done! Kicking and screaming isn't going to change the past. You know what it wouldn't matter what anser you got from Viney your a sad old fart that will never be satisfied at all.

Back to the topic i enjoyed his interview. I forget at times he was a premiership assistant coach at the Hawks. Interesting he mentioned that when he was at Adelaide he decided he wanted to be a senior coach.

Sorry you feel that way Dazzle. Anytime you want a beer i am happy to oblige

Comes down to being disabled since birth. Without a strong attitude one would merely be annihalated.

I can pick a persons attitude real quick. I have to.

It's called survival instincts when you cannot run.

All i want to see is 100,000 witness multiple premierships from the MFC

The AFL has given the club multiple chances to improve and under Schwab we actually blew the lot. (Jack Viney picked himself)

I do not understand why more on this site do not hold the same contempt, but that's life.

As i said Dazzle anytime you want a beer i will oblige. You know a lot about the feeder comps by your posts, unlike Macca i do not subscribe to the draft being a lottery.

One only has to look at who Roosy has targetted. These kids have the right attitude, they are raw but will keep tackling

Watts & Toumpas won't cut it at AFL level

Watts has been the most underwhelming player i have seen reach 100 & i have always backed him...but he just doesn't care enough to push to next level...

[rjay 25,424]

  On 06/05/2015 at 06:19, nutbean said:

The only one I am prepared to commit on is Brayshaw. In the few games this season I think he has shown he has enough tools to be very good. If I learned anything from drafting is that "time will tell" is the only safe bet.

  On 06/05/2015 at 06:22, Macca said:

Hope you're right rjay

I've never really gone in to making big calls on young players but from what I've seen from Hogan & Brayshaw so far, our luck might be finally turning ... and there is a fair slice of luck involved with drafting teenagers

Fair call...Really like these 2, with a couple of the other kids like Viney, Tyson & Tommy Mc it gives us something to build a team around.

Talking to some kids that know Petracca pretty well they tell me he's a great kid and will be a gun. I was pretty impressed with some of his tricks at training, lets hope to see him in full flight next year.

[T&W 38]

  On 06/05/2015 at 07:08, Sir Why You Little said:

The AFL has given the club multiple chances to improve and under Schwab we actually blew the lot. (Jack Viney picked himself)

I do not understand why more on this site do not hold the same contempt, but that's life.

Your passion is admirable your facts are just bulldust.

We have a strong underlying business ... our core business needs more investment to be competitive with other teams.

PJ & the AFL stepped in to invest more money into our core business - Unfortunately our memberships, gate receipts and sponsorship incomes where stagnant - call it self inflicted if you want.

PJ has done an outstanding job fixing sponsorship - now its over to MFC supporters to fix memberships and gate receipts - win, lose or draw.

[Sir Why You Little 37,450]

  On 06/05/2015 at 07:28, T&W said:

Your passion is admirable your facts are just bulldust.

We have a strong underlying business ... our core business needs more investment to be competitive with other teams.

PJ & the AFL stepped in to invest more money into our core business - Unfortunately our memberships, gate receipts and sponsorship incomes where stagnant - call it self inflicted if you want.

PJ has done an outstanding job fixing sponsorship - now its over to MFC supporters to fix memberships and gate receipts - win, lose or draw.

different area of the club entirely..

You do not need Corporate sponsorship to identify a players attitude to hard work

PJ is doing a mighty job starting at Ground Zero that is not in question

[Sir Why You Little 37,450]

  On 06/05/2015 at 06:01, nutbean said:

SWYL - you dismiss the journalists and their drafts - but the top journo's do watch and do talk to talent scouts and recruiters - they are basing the rankings on what they have seen and what they have heard.

I actually think that these journo's are pretty well spot in predicting the ORDER in which the players will be drafted. What they are not good at is getting the output of each player in the draft during their career. Every draft order since inception would look completely different in retrospect given the exposed form we now have.

I did get to a point where I think we should dismiss the "rankings" which seem to become formalised close to draft time and go with exactly who we think is the best option.

If you draw a line through the drafts and look at picks taken where they were thought to be ranked - sooo many are just wrong ( in our case - Watts, Toumpas, Scully, Trengove..etc)

If you draw a line through the drafts and look at the picks that were taken early than their ranking - soooo many are just wrong ( in our case - Cook, Strauss, Gysberts etc)

I have reconciled myself that the draft is a turkey shoot and some will work out and some won't.

I get all that, but they are only fed what they are told...The recruiters & coaches are the only ones who talk to these kids....Get inside their heads

How we picked all those duds in such a short time is just staggering and heart breaking

Here's my point illustrated perfectly...We want players with the Roosters attitude!!

https://www.facebook.com/slabnewsLB/videos/vb.532812306801694/773960509353538/?type=2&theater

[Chook 15,068]

  On 06/05/2015 at 07:46, Sir Why You Little said:

I get all that, but they are only fed what they are told...The recruiters & coaches are the only ones who talk to these kids....Get inside their heads

How we picked all those duds in such a short time is just staggering and heart breaking

Part of it is because we didn't do our due diligence. Word is that Barry Prendergast didn't feel it was worth his time to interview Dustin Martin, for example. Now you may say "Thank God" on that one; but it really just shows a complete lack of care from those who were most responsible for shaping our list. They were so sure of where they were going that they didn't stop to make sure they'd missed anything along their way.

[Macca 17,127]

Wyl

I've never called the draft a "complete" lottery ... there are many truths to the draft

The issue is the recruiters trying to put the draftees in an order where that order will be accurate 5 years down the track

It's an impossible task

[Sir Why You Little 37,450]

  On 06/05/2015 at 07:53, Chook said:

Part of it is because we didn't do our due diligence. Word is that Barry Prendergast didn't feel it was worth his time to interview Dustin Martin, for example. Now you may say "Thank God" on that one; but it really just shows a complete lack of care from those who were most responsible for shaping our list. They were so sure of where they were going that they didn't stop to make sure they'd missed anything along their way.

Totally agree...we were told weeks and sometimes months who we were going to pick through all that period of time

Not one came through...

[Sir Why You Little 37,450]

  On 06/05/2015 at 07:55, Macca said:

Wyl

I've never called the draft a "complete" lottery ... there are many truths to the draft

The issue is the recruiters trying to put the draftees in an order where that order will be accurate 5 years down the track

It's an impossible task

i don't call it impossible...you do proper research eg: 30% Athletic 70% above the shoulders, & there is no reason why you cannot expect a high return

Mental toughness is so important once the body is aching

[Macca 17,127]

  On 06/05/2015 at 07:58, Sir Why You Little said:

i don't call it impossible...you do proper research eg: 30% Athletic 70% above the shoulders, & there is no reason why you cannot expect a high return

Mental toughness is so important once the body is aching

Big picture

If you analyse the drafts from 1986 - 2007, not one of those drafts is even semi-accurate - 5 years down the track.

You need to look at this from an unemotional & dispassionate viewpoint.