Can people now finally realise that players don't really improve that much over a pre-season, despite how good they may look at training.

The same can be said for the standard of posts from certain posters, apart from just the general whingeing, do you actually have any comment to make

This was the first game in slightly difficult conditions, nobody was horrible, in the video both Rawlings and Roos were pleased, of course there is still work to do, but we had guys playing in different positions

If Grimes is not in the team at Rd 1, it will mean there is somebody who is in better form and playing better than him, I won't be cheering or moaning, but it is the coaches who will decide this

Some posters already have Vandenberg elevated and in the Rd 1 team, what happens if Riley or Terlich or anybody else who missed out this week comes in and has a good game, oh that's right they are the NQR

My observation on Dunn, he was trying at times to marshal a defence that he didn't recognize, particularly after half time

I also observe that a lot of the Gawn lovers who demand he be the nr 1 ruck are a bit quiet , he was ordinary

The same can be said for the standard of posts from certain posters, apart from just the general whingeing, do you actually have any comment to make

This was the first game in slightly difficult conditions, nobody was horrible, in the video both Rawlings and Roos were pleased, of course there is still work to do, but we had guys playing in different positions

If Grimes is not in the team at Rd 1, it will mean there is somebody who is in better form and playing better than him, I won't be cheering or moaning, but it is the coaches who will decide this

Some posters already have Vandenberg elevated and in the Rd 1 team, what happens if Riley or Terlich or anybody else who missed out this week comes in and has a good game, oh that's right they are the NQR

My observation on Dunn, he was trying at times to marshal a defence that he didn't recognize, particularly after half time

Think the difference with between Vanders and Terlich/Reilly is that Vanders offers flexibility (from the very limited footage I've seen of him).

I'm willing to give Reilly time, but I think Terlich has done his dash.

The same can be said for the standard of posts from certain posters, apart from just the general whingeing, do you actually have any comment to make

This was the first game in slightly difficult conditions, nobody was horrible, in the video both Rawlings and Roos were pleased, of course there is still work to do, but we had guys playing in different positions

If Grimes is not in the team at Rd 1, it will mean there is somebody who is in better form and playing better than him, I won't be cheering or moaning, but it is the coaches who will decide this

Some posters already have Vandenberg elevated and in the Rd 1 team, what happens if Riley or Terlich or anybody else who missed out this week comes in and has a good game, oh that's right they are the NQR

My observation on Dunn, he was trying at times to marshal a defence that he didn't recognize, particularly after half time

I also observe that a lot of the Gawn lovers who demand he be the nr 1 ruck are a bit quiet , he was ordinary

In a real game has every been more?

A few good quarters here and there does not make a AFL player.

Think the difference with between Vanders and Terlich/Reilly is that Vanders offers flexibility (from the very limited footage I've seen of him).

I'm willing to give Reilly time, but I think Terlich has done his dash.

So you are basing that on one half of a practice game, we also have Vince, Viney, Watts, Hunt, White, Stretch Riley, Howe and Terlich, think it is a bit of an early call

A lot of the postings I could guess what they would say without even reading them, like counting sheep

We will be competitive against most sides which is all we really want and be in with a chance to win.

I just did a best 22 up and came up with this. Not sure how accurate I am though, but this is the way I see it in my eyes.

B: Jetta, McDonald, Frost

HB: Lumumba, Dunn, Howe

C: Vince, Viney, Cross

HF: Kent, [Pedersen], Watts

F: Garlett, Hogan, Dawes

Fol: Jamar, N. Jones, Tyson

I/C: VandenBerg, M.Jones, Salem, Newton

Em: JKH, Toumpas, Garland, Grimes, Bail

A good looking line up. Maybe I would swap Dunn and Frost positions. Frost is going to be a fantastic rebound defender alongside Lumumba.

That struck me too. I sweat profusely at the slightest exertion so I'm familiar with the symptoms. It makes you feel really down.

I thought Garland looked like he didn't want to be out there. He's been like that for the past year . Head down, looks downcast, no zip or spark. Compare Nathan Jones.

I thought Garland looked like he didn't want to be out there. He's been like that for the past year . Head down, looks downcast, no zip or spark. Compare Nathan Jones.

Oh dear, one of your best, at least it made me laugh, how long does it take for you to think these up

He played his role, it was hot and blustery, they had a big forward line

The same can be said for the standard of posts from certain posters, apart from just the general whingeing, do you actually have any comment to make

This was the first game in slightly difficult conditions, nobody was horrible, in the video both Rawlings and Roos were pleased, of course there is still work to do, but we had guys playing in different positions

If Grimes is not in the team at Rd 1, it will mean there is somebody who is in better form and playing better than him, I won't be cheering or moaning, but it is the coaches who will decide this

Some posters already have Vandenberg elevated and in the Rd 1 team, what happens if Riley or Terlich or anybody else who missed out this week comes in and has a good game, oh that's right they are the NQR

My observation on Dunn, he was trying at times to marshal a defence that he didn't recognize, particularly after half time

I also observe that a lot of the Gawn lovers who demand he be the nr 1 ruck are a bit quiet , he was ordinary

Let me say this for the final time

IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU!

Now, please go back to apologising for being entirely wrong despite weeks of desperate insistence.

TDI , this is when your posts annoy me. This is a perfect opportunity for someone as so learned as yourself to give an opinion on players performance both good and bad. However you nit pick and criticise those who have been proven correct on this occasion that some players(yet again) have fallen short of the required AFL standard - Gawn,Griems & Garland.

A tasty steak has both succulent meat and gristle.

Let me say this for the final time

IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU!

Now, please go back to apologising for being entirely wrong despite weeks of desperate insistence.

Ah again, I am the one poster not allowed to express an opinion, so it must be about me

I have nothing to apologise for as it is my opinion.

Lke my opinion of a blowhard that has to put a bigger font to make a poiint

So you are basing that on one half of a practice game, we also have Vince, Viney, Watts, Hunt, White, Stretch Riley, Howe and Terlich, think it is a bit of an early call

A lot of the postings I could guess what they would say without even reading them, like counting sheep

And vice versa.

I suggest that many posters have differing opinions to you as to what makes an AFL footballer.

The same can be said for the standard of posts from certain posters, apart from just the general whingeing, do you actually have any comment to make

This was the first game in slightly difficult conditions, nobody was horrible, in the video both Rawlings and Roos were pleased, of course there is still work to do, but we had guys playing in different positions

If Grimes is not in the team at Rd 1, it will mean there is somebody who is in better form and playing better than him, I won't be cheering or moaning, but it is the coaches who will decide this

Some posters already have Vandenberg elevated and in the Rd 1 team, what happens if Riley or Terlich or anybody else who missed out this week comes in and has a good game, oh that's right they are the NQR

My observation on Dunn, he was trying at times to marshal a defence that he didn't recognize, particularly after half time

I also observe that a lot of the Gawn lovers who demand he be the nr 1 ruck are a bit quiet , he was ordinary

How you can glean that on television is beyond me.

TDI , this is when your posts annoy me. This is a perfect opportunity for someone as so learned as yourself to give an opinion on players performance both good and bad. However you nit pick and criticise those who have been proven correct on this occasion that some players(yet again) have fallen short of the required AFL standard - Gawn,Griems & Garland.

A tasty steak has both succulent meat and gristle.

I agree, but some just don't want to hear it

I have expressed an opinion, I didn't think anybody was horrible, was only watching the game on TV, a few were ordinary, but it was the first hit out, in slightly difficult conditions, as for falling below AFL standard, that's just laughable

McKenzie, one of the perennials, did ok, so there is not a word of praise, can't have that

The midfield lost control in the 2nd quarter, so if I was going to 'lay blame', I would start there, Dom Tyson said the same thing

A lot of posters have their 'easy targets' so they just go at them.

Me I already put in another thread that yes Tyson got a lot of the ball but his options or disposal was ordinary to say the least,

Frost looked exciting coming out of the backline but his following disposal(s) weren't damaging

It took Lumumba a half to find his feet which was understandable, but I though he was just good, not wonderful

The last kick a lot of the time into the 50 was ordinary and it wasn't the 'usual suspects' delivering it, the only two really decent deliveries were Lumumba to Hogan and JKH to Vandenberg, both lowering their eyes

And vice versa.

I suggest that many posters have differing opinions to you as to what makes an AFL footballer.

How you can glean that on television is beyond me.

Er by looking at who was picking up the Freo forwards, that's how you usually do it, and looking at the goals on replay to see why they got them, it is called analysing, a concept that may be alien to some

I get it when players make a skill error from time to time but what annoys the living carp out of me s when guys like Matt Jones simply falls into the back of a player already on the ground to give away a free kick. Its just dumb football.

I'm not sure you can coach some players out of that but having said that I thought last night our tackling was pretty good and players generally waited or at least were thoughtful before tackling so as to try not to infringe....

I agree, but some just don't want to hear it

I have expressed an opinion, I didn't think anybody was horrible, was only watching the game on TV, a few were ordinary, but it was the first hit out, in slightly difficult conditions, as for falling below AFL standard, that's just laughable

McKenzie, one of the perennials, did ok, so there is not a word of praise, can't have that

The midfield lost control in the 2nd quarter, so if I was going to 'lay blame', I would start there, Dom Tyson said the same thing

A lot of posters have their 'easy targets' so they just go at them.

Me I already put in another thread that yes Tyson got a lot of the ball but his options or disposal was ordinary to say the least,

Frost looked exciting coming out of the backline but his following disposal(s) weren't damaging

It took Lumumba a half to find his feet which was understandable, but I though he was just good, not wonderful

The last kick a lot of the time into the 50 was ordinary and it wasn't the 'usual suspects' delivering it, the only two really decent deliveries were Lumumba to Hogan and JKH to Vandenberg, both lowering their eyes

Do you realise how ridiculous you sound when you post?

Basically the premise of nearly everything you post is that you are allowed to express your opinion but others are not.

Alas though, you will not see it or understand.

Do you realise how ridiculous you sound when you post?

Basically the premise of nearly everything you post is that you are allowed to express your opinion but others are not.

Alas though, you will not see it or understand.

Of course everybody is allowed to post an opinion, and of course everybody is allowed to disagree, that is why it is a public forum, I put why I disagree with an opinion, you just put I look foolish, spot the difference

We can discuss Tyson's disposals/options if you like?, or don't you disagree with my opinion?

Geez, you'd think we lost by 10 goals or something; there is a lot of people out there drinking from a half empty glass!

To help put this in perspective.

It was the first game of the season, skill levels are expected to be down a little. Compound this by the heat which made conditions difficult. Compound this again my the fact that it was against Fremantle where even the best sides, under ideal conditions, at the peak of their powers struggle to execute their skills. Low scoring games is a norm against the dockers. Remember also this was on the road, and to their training base.

but still there will be those who will take the ["We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan] approach, so I challenge thee ..............................

to do a list of players who won their positions.

at a very quick attempt I came up with:

Pavlich

Mzungu

Duffield

perhaps Johnson, Taberner (1st half)

Jetta

McKenzie

Tyson

Perhaps N Jones, Frost (2nd half)

Note: for obvious reasons you can't state Hogan won his position then say Silvagni also won.

I also recall docker players kicking it out on the full as often as Dees.

this is not a justification for the rose coloured glasses approach, there were players who did not perform as well as the would have liked and passages of play that were ordinary; but another game should see improvements in both (by the players or inclusion of new players.

there were also passages of play, particularly inside clearance and releases which were very encouraging.

I get it when players make a skill error from time to time but what annoys the living carp out of me s when guys like Matt Jones simply falls into the back of a player already on the ground to give away a free kick. Its just dumb football.

I'm not sure you can coach some players out of that but having said that I thought last night our tackling was pretty good and players generally waited or at least were thoughtful before tackling so as to try not to infringe....

If you slow down the incident you are referring to, Matt Jones did the right thing and had the majority of his body to the side of the player who then flopped forward, compare to the Tommy Mc holding the ball where because Tommy was face up, Pavlich just fell on him and got holding the ball

Er by looking at who was picking up the Freo forwards, that's how you usually do it, and looking at the goals on replay to see why they got them, it is called analysing, a concept that may be alien to some

Freo kicked 2 legitimate goals after half time so that wouldn't have taken too long.

Dunn just didn't get involved in the play for whatever reason. To say that he was too busy marshalling the troops is laughable.

I do not understand how anyone can say that a game played in clear skies, 30 degrees and a 10 knot wind to cool them down is anything but great conditions to play AFL.

My observations:

• Garland had a poor game but he clearly needs to get some games under his belt and will get better.

• Grimes made the same mistakes as last year and will need to improve significantly to make it into best 22.

Garland made the same mistakes as last year but you think he will get better yet you have written off Grimes.Garland had a shocking year in 2014 and needs to improve dramatically as there is competition for his spot.

Of course everybody is allowed to post an opinion, and of course everybody is allowed to disagree, that is why it is a public forum, I put why I disagree with an opinion, you just put I look foolish, spot the difference

We can discuss Tyson's disposals/options if you like?, or don't you disagree with my opinion?

The difference is if I criticise a player it is because he is one of the "easy targets" or because I am "glass half empty" or I am a "player basher"

If you do it it is legitimate because you have have had a few words with Christian Salem now and then about the soccer.

I know that you won't get it, never have, never will. I would not give you the credit to be able to hold an objective discussion about footy, you'd probably call me a "lemon sucker". You are incapable of objectivity. You have said it yourself. I am over your bullying and elevated sense of importance.

If you slow down the incident you are referring to, Matt Jones did the right thing and had the majority of his body to the side of the player who then flopped forward, compare to the Tommy Mc holding the ball where because Tommy was face up, Pavlich just fell on him and got holding the ball

The Pavlich incident is legal. The Matt Jones thing I will respectfully disagree with you. He fell into his back when the guy was on the ground.

I get it when players make a skill error from time to time but what annoys the living carp out of me s when guys like Matt Jones simply falls into the back of a player already on the ground to give away a free kick. Its just dumb football.

I'm not sure you can coach some players out of that but having said that I thought last night our tackling was pretty good and players generally waited or at least were thoughtful before tackling so as to try not to infringe....

The opposition player is as often responsible for this; with momentum also is a large contributing factor, and if you dragged every player who gave away a free kick when someone collapses their knees or dives forward into the ground; then there would be know one left playing against teams like Geelong or West Coast.

Free kicks will happen, particularly if you are in the play more often than not. N Jones was continually penalised for holding the ball until he got a bit more assistance from his team mates (Tyson, Cross, Viney and Vince)

If you slow down the incident you are referring to, Matt Jones did the right thing and had the majority of his body to the side of the player who then flopped forward, compare to the Tommy Mc holding the ball where because Tommy was face up, Pavlich just fell on him and got holding the ball

Matt Jones just sat in his back. It was terrible technique. He also gave away another 3 or 4 free kicks for too high, where a loose arm of his in a soft attempted tackle made high contact.

He has no idea how to tackle and it's because he tries to protect himself and he has no grunt.

He may be inexperienced at AFL level but he's not a young man, if he isn't willing to play with some conviction then he shouldn't be out there. And that goes for Grimes, Garland and others.