Improvement is not the issue - we're talking about the pass mark.

Why not straight 50% wins? That used to be a pass.

11 wins in a season after what we have all endured over the last decade sounds pretty fair to me...

I would hope all MFC supporters feel the same way i do

Its the reason this club has had no success in 50 years

Close enough is not good enough. It's time to accept nothing less Curry

Even you must agree with that...hmmm??

I don't know what to say.

You are stating with a straight face that you expect us to 'be beating everyone'. You are actually saying that the only thing you would be satisfied with in 2015 is to go the season undefeated.

I would like to get home from work to find Olivia Munn and a bottle of Dom Perignon in my bed. It's not going to happen.

As old dee reminded me recently, season 2013 was quite simply one of the worst seasons any club has ever produced.

That was TWO years ago.

If we are good enough this year to lose to the Hawks by a point, as an example of our hypothetical improvement, that should logically mean we will finish about 5th-6th at least. If that happens I will be doing friggin cartwheels. So will you, I don't know why you are putting up this charade TBH.

I'm certainly not confident though. For 2015 or the future in general. In a few years cross, jamar, vince, lumumba, dunn, jones, garland and dawes will all be gone. Who is our next generation? Hogan, Viney and Tyson are the only three I can pencil in at this stage.

Let's not even get into the fact that Roos has an agreement to just take his money and wish us luck at the end of 2016. Apparently I am the only Melbourne supporter that finds that strange and concerning.

Improvement is not the issue - we're talking about the pass mark.

Why not straight 50% wins? That used to be a pass.

because to look at it so simplistically is weird and illogical and arbitrary

11 wins in a season after what we have all endured over the last decade sounds pretty fair to me...

Yes because what we have endured logically equates to improvement of the football team. By that logic we have the next five flags in the bag.

If we have six to eight wins and no, or very few losses over five goals and a cohesive football team that actually looks like it knows what it is doing then I will be happy. If we do better than that.....priapism.

If we have a number of young players consistently in our best players then I will be happy. If there are 2 or 3 of those that exhibit some "star" quality I will be happier.

If Roosy has to scratch his head most weeks and try to figure out who to leave out then I will be happy.

We are building incrementally. I would like to see us reach the next increment (hopefully not excrement) competetently.

I think one thing we all want is to go to the footy with excitement and not dread.

I don't know what to say.

You are stating with a straight face that you expect us to 'be beating everyone'. You are actually saying that the only thing you would be satisfied with in 2015 is to go the season undefeated.

I would like to get home from work to find Olivia Munn and a bottle of Dom Perignon in my bed. It's not going to happen.

As old dee reminded me recently, season 2013 was quite simply one of the worst seasons any club has ever produced.

That was TWO years ago.

If we are good enough this year to lose to the Hawks by a point, as an example of our hypothetical improvement, that should logically mean we will finish about 5th-6th at least. If that happens I will be doing friggin cartwheels. So will you, I don't know why you are putting up this charade TBH.

I'm certainly not confident though. For 2015 or the future in general. In a few years cross, jamar, vince, lumumba, dunn, jones, garland and dawes will all be gone. Who is our next generation? Hogan, Viney and Tyson are the only three I can pencil in at this stage.

Let's not even get into the fact that Roos has an agreement to just take his money and wish us luck at the end of 2016. Apparently I am the only Melbourne supporter that finds that strange and concerning.

No i am not stating anything Curry. You are.

I am saying any season this club does not aim to make finals is a fail.

There are many on here who have stated 6 wins is a pass mark. No it is not.

Now we may well win 6 games this season but it will be and should be marked as a fail

Just like the previous pathetic decade

Yes because what we have endured logically equates to improvement of the football team. By that logic we have the next five flags in the bag.

If we have six to eight wins and no, or very few losses over five goals and a cohesive football team that actually looks like it knows what it is doing then I will be happy. If we do better than that.....priapism.

If we have a number of young players consistently in our best players then I will be happy. If there are 2 or 3 of those that exhibit some "star" quality I will be happier.

If Roosy has to scratch his head most weeks and try to figure out who to leave out then I will be happy.

We are building incrementally. I would like to see us reach the next increment (hopefully not excrement) competetently.

I think one thing we all want is to go to the footy with excitement and not dread.

But 6-8 wins in a season is 14-16 losses.

That is dread to me Jabb. Improvement by little increments won't cut it for me. That is how the last 10 years were sold

If this club is to win flags again we need massive improvement otherwise any good players we have will walk at the end of each season.

Look at the dogs. The Captain walked....

Yes because what we have endured logically equates to improvement of the football team. By that logic we have the next five flags in the bag.

If we have six to eight wins and no, or very few losses over five goals and a cohesive football team that actually looks like it knows what it is doing then I will be happy. If we do better than that.....priapism.

If we have a number of young players consistently in our best players then I will be happy. If there are 2 or 3 of those that exhibit some "star" quality I will be happier.

If Roosy has to scratch his head most weeks and try to figure out who to leave out then I will be happy.

We are building incrementally. I would like to see us reach the next increment (hopefully not excrement) competetently.

I think one thing we all want is to go to the footy with excitement and not dread.

this x1000

No i am not stating anything Curry. You are.

I am saying any season this club does not aim to make finals is a fail.

There are many on here who have stated 6 wins is a pass mark. No it is not.

Now we may well win 6 games this season but it will be and should be marked as a fail

Just like the previous pathetic decade

are you serious? I am directly quoting your post

you have now just changed what you are saying from 'beating everyone' to 'finals'

about 2 people have said 6, yes that is a fail, 8 is more realistic

this x1000

Good for you Curry i am so happy you have found your place.

Little increments may get the club a flag in the next 300 years...

WYL, the way of the world is that improvement happens in increments. If you're training a kid to ride a bike, you don't label him a failure if he falls off on his first, second, third go. You give him time to master it.

Demanding instant success and talking tough is all well and good but it is distanced from reality. Clubs undertake rebuilds and ours was unlike most others in its scale. We are entering year two of the new MFC.

Of course the club will be aiming for finals. But for a team coming off 4 wins, if we make finals this season it won't be a Pass. It will be a High Distinction. With honours. And naked models.

I would hope all MFC supporters feel the same way i do

Its the reason this club has had no success in 50 years

Close enough is not good enough. It's time to accept nothing less Curry

Even you must agree with that...hmmm??

I'm with you WYL. Nothing honourable in a loss.

I will only ever be happy with a win and will never walk away from a loss happy we tried.

WYL, the way of the world is that improvement happens in increments. If you're training a kid to ride a bike, you don't label him a failure if he falls off on his first, second, third go. You give him time to master it.

Demanding instant success and talking tough is all well and good but it is distanced from reality. Clubs undertake rebuilds and ours was unlike most others in its scale. We are entering year two of the new MFC.

Of course the club will be aiming for finals. But for a team coming off 4 wins, if we make finals this season it won't be a Pass. It will be a High Distinction. With honours. And naked models.

Exactly - I don't understand this 'aiming for finals' idea. Of course we are, everyone is. You prepare each week for the side you are playing and hope to execute effectively on gameday. Then you do it again the next week.

Agreed that everything that happened under Neeld and Bailey is completely irrelevant now. You are correct, this is year two under a new regime coming from the lowing depths. Roos made this very clear when he took the job.

are you serious? I am directly quoting your post

you have now just changed what you are saying from 'beating everyone' to 'finals'

about 2 people have said 6, yes that is a fail, 8 is more realistic

You just love being absolutely literal on here don't you Curry

Analyzing each word...

Fcuk yeah i would love beat every side Smash them to a pulp and that is what we should aim to do. As we did under Checker & Norm. We tore the comp apart.

Making finals is the first step in that direction

Can i make it any more clearer to you??

I am at work. I don't wish to argue all day...

I'm with you WYL. Nothing honourable in a loss.

I will only ever be happy with a win and will never walk away from a loss happy we tried.

This is not how sporting groups or athletes operate.

And that includes close losses. If the MFC is in a close game late in the last Q we must aim to win it.

Massive improvement can be achieved through hard work and the right attitude.

Close enough is a fail.

This is what you said

I've argued that from where we are coming from, certain losses should be regarded as a 'pass' - if it was a good performance against quality opposition

If in a couple of years we are knocking on the door of the top4 I will agree with your statement above - but that is not the reality of the here and now

But 6-8 wins in a season is 14-16 losses.

That is dread to me Jabb. Improvement by little increments won't cut it for me. That is how the last 10 years were sold

If this club is to win flags again we need massive improvement otherwise any good players we have will walk at the end of each season.

Look at the dogs. The Captain walked....

What about if we look like we are actually learning how to win?

If we bash up the Saints one week only to get flogged by the Hawks by 100 points the next I won't be happy. If we can keep our losses against the strong teams minimal, maybe even win a couple, or at least show that with some growth and experience we can knock them off soon that would be awesome.

The key is doing that consistently....the whole season.

Tyson, Salem, and Hogan consistently in the best....McDonald beating his man. Brayshaw and Stretch showing a bit.

A pass mark is our consistent effort throughout the year.

Last year we didn't get belted as much, this year we need to continue to apply pressure at all times.

Port are relentless with their pressure and run. Hopefully we can become that side this year.

We shouldn't be thinking of the 8, we should be just thinking of winning the next quarter - and so on.

...

I'm certainly not confident though. For 2015 or the future in general. In a few years cross, jamar, vince, lumumba, dunn, jones, garland and dawes will all be gone. Who is our next generation? Hogan, Viney and Tyson are the only three I can pencil in at this stage.

Let's not even get into the fact that Roos has an agreement to just take his money and wish us luck at the end of 2016. Apparently I am the only Melbourne supporter that finds that strange and concerning.

Hopefully, once those players you list are gone, there will be a winning culture instilled at the club and their absence won't make a difference.

Put me down for 8. Reckon it may be 6 tops.

Beating St.Kilda, GWS, GC and Footscray gives us 7 wins. Last year we dropped games against those sides and we simply shouldn't have.

When the sword of Damocles drops at Windy Hill next month, we can ink in a certain win against them as well.

We beat Richmond and Adelaide, neither who have added anything substantial to their list. We were more than competitive in half a dozen other games. I expect the same again this year.

10 wins as a rock bottom bare minimum

I think you're going to be very disappointed if you think 10 wins is bare minimum.

Given that we haven't won at least 5 games in a season since 2011, I think it's a bit rich and unrealistic to suddenly expect 10 or 11 wins to be the bare minimum.

6-7 wins is a realistic pass mark.

Failing is disappointing.

And, for a student averaging 20 or 30%, significant improvement doesn't necessarily mean passing. But the pass mark doesn't change just because they were very poor last season. So, some of you appear to be saying, "there's very little likelihood of MFC passing this year".

What exactly was this discussion about?

We would some serious luck if we were to win 10+ games for the year.

My biggest worry is come Rd 1 that Jones and Tyson go for the same ball and destroy each other for 10 weeks. Then we are left with an old timer in Cross (body could go any minute), Vince who's struggling to get back on the park and a couple kids who could choke if they are forced to be the main men.year

If we were to win 10+ we would need Tyson, Jones, Vince, Cross, Hogan and Dawes all to play 22 games to there potential and the rest to all have better years than last year.

Hoping for 8 wins but think we will still struggle for that.

Its going to be very even on the ladder between 6th - 16th imo

I believe the following games, if all goes to planned, are winnable.

Highlighted are the games i think we should win

round 1 vs GCS

round 2 vs GWS

round 3 vs Crows

round 4 vs Richmond

round 8 vs bulldogs

round 9 vs Port

round 10 vs Collingwood

Round 11 vs Stkilda

Round14 vs WCE

Round 15 vs drug cheats

round 16 vs Lions

round 17 vs Stkilda

round 18 vs Collingwood

round 19 vs Norf

round 20 vs Bulldogs

round 21 vs Carlton

round 23 vs Giants

So 7 games i think we should be able to win, and the rest there is no excuse to not go close to winning if not win imo.

Improvement is not the issue - we're talking about the pass mark.

Why not straight 50% wins? That used to be a pass.

Robbie YOU are a freak'n genius!

I'll add that in addition to 50% wins, we need a percentage over 100%...