Training - Friday 9th January, 2015

[Goodvibes 3,596]

By ready made I mean physically ready, not another "Watts on debut type build". I think he can hold his own as he continues to grow/learn.

Gotcha. He certainly looks physically ready but I think we need to be patient. Dunn, McDonald, Garland should all be picked ahead of him come Round 1. Howe seems destined to play down back and I'm a Grimes fan so do really see a spot yet for Frost. Roos appears big on creating a culture where you have to prove yourself and not be gifted games. Going in his favour is the usually tall make-up of the Gold Coast forward line.

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

I always appreciate training reports from supporters that spend their free time watching the boys train, but I can live without the constant references to conversations had with, seemingly, every player and coach working for the MFC. Especially when it's readily apparent that many questions cross a line and are given the response they deserve.

Would feel less uneasy if MFC players had an absolute focus on their training regime, structures and retention of Roosy's gameplan, rather than discussing Arsenal's latest loss.

Was particularly perturbed by the probing of Michie on Wednesday, about an issue he clearly did not want to discuss. I certainly wouldn't walk up to a complete stranger in another workplace and ask what their problem is, if they looked upset.

Do you get a good view from your high horse.

If I cross the line with a question, the players tell me so, I have a really good relationship with most of them, having talked to them at other things besides training

I didn't lay a finger on Michie never mind probe him, when players are in the rehab group I try and find out why, most tell me, if they don't that's cool, Viv said nothing so I left it at that, he certainly wasn't upset.

Dave Misson will tell me why a player is missing, he even gave me advance warning about the run up Andersons Hill so I could get some good pictures for Twitter, the players like to favourite them

If the players tell me something that I consider not the norm, I ask their permission to quote on here, most do, Howie with his contract, Dawes with his fitness etc etc

I speak to the players once their training is finished, other supporters there do as well

Every player I asked for a time for the 3k volunteered it

Chris Salem loves soccer, he has finished training, it is his lunch time, we have a chat about a shared interest

I even had a chat with Max King yesterday in Swan St when I bumped into him whilst myself and lady were out shopping

To answer a couple of questions above, Howe was still with the defence, Vandenberg wasn't there this week, he looks ok been in rehab group so hasn't been doing much, Frost is big, strong and fast, reckon will have a real crack during NAB Cup, he is really happy being back in Melbourne, and feels part of the club already

Edited January 10, 2015 by The Devil Inside

[RalphiusMaximus 6,023]

Frawley at his best is a great defender.

He was also frustratingly lazy, and his pathetic defending cost us that Bulldogs game because he let an 18 year old find space metres from goal.

Not just find space but strip the ball from him, find space and kick the damn goal.

[Alcho Dee 269]

With saying that, I didn't ever see you speaking up at AGM's or putting yourself forward to assist the club, I attended a workshop recently and when asked for words that sprung to mind with MFC, I said whingers, and was howled down, then the whingeing started, but nobody came up with solutions as per the norm

I am a realist, the club fell in a hole of it's own making, and somebody kicked the ladder away, we have now found the ladder, we just have to climb out of the hole

The coaches do know better, that is why they are an AFL coach, and most if not all on here are not

Some on here can't even form their own opinions, I listen to or read a piece from one of the so called experts in the media and the next day it's quoted on here as fact

Jordie's disposal efficiency is around the normal for most solid AFL players over their career which is 75 to 80%, if it wasn't he wouldn't be on the list

Actually to make a point re the efficiency, Nev Jetta's was always in the 90% region yet he was delisted, why because his body continually let him down, let's see what McKenzie can do with a full preseason

Mate, as an interstate supporter I can't make it to watch the boys train. Your training reports that you share with us are much appreciated, you obviously have good relationships within the club which allows you to have conversations with the players and coaches, all which you can keep to yourself, but you kindly choose to share some of those conversations and information on here with us, take it from me mate, people like you keep a lot of others interested in the club.

[Alcho Dee 269]

Misleading stat.

Do you ever think that due to a player - (in this case McKenzie) - being aware of his weakness at a given skill, (in this case kicking) he will always go a safe/short/backward option for fear of making a mistake which will lift his disposal efficiency making this stat look awfully silly without context?

I can assure you that neither McKenzie nor Bail would still be on the list had our club not been so mismanaged in all areas over the past near decade.

Again, misleading.

Your training reports are fascinating. I enjoy reading them. But when it comes to objectively analyzing and critiquing players in which you have developed personal relationships with, it becomes impossible for you to do.

Of course as you say, there are those on this forum who perhaps completely write off/slag off players and the club unfairly. But there are also those in-between who know that once certain players are pushed out of the side or moved on from the club, it'll be further evidence that the playing list is becoming stronger.

Your care for each player on a personal level is endearing, but it stops you from seeing the bigger picture. Of course coaches know which individuals need to improve in certain areas of their game. Of course those individuals themselves know that there are areas of their game that need improving.

Of all clubs within the AFL we're the one that has lacked the most talent and depth for years now. That is a result of having drafted and developed so poorly over the same time period. Which is a result of having the worst playing leaders, coaches and administrators within the AFL over the same time period.

Do you not think that they're the reasons we've had players like McKenzie, Bail, Nicholson, Evans etc on our list for so long? Nicholson and Evans are gone. Why? Because we have now added talent and depth, which is a result of having competent on-field leaders, coaches, recruiters and admin. That will also continue next year. And whilst Jordie will be trying as hard as he can to improve areas of his game with coaches who will be working just as hard with him, the reality is he will not be on our list for much longer. And that is because he does not add enough at AFL level. Neither myself or any other Melbourne supporter needs to be an AFL qualified coach to be able to make that call. Nor do I need a print out of his kicking efficiency average from last year. It's the ability to critically analyze in an objective manner.

All of which is your opinion, others might disagree completely.

[CBDees 3,167]

Yeah I'm not as bullish on Frost as some are. GWS's asking price of pick 23 was very surprising.

He didn't impress me much at GWS and I wouldn't be surprised if he plays a chunk of games for Casey, which could leave a hole for us in defence.

If Frost makes it it may not be until 2016 or 17.

Yes but we also collected NB and O. McDonald as steak knives ( two picks that weren't going to be used by GWS but which were bl-- dy useful to us )! Picking Frost didn't leave a 'hole in our defence', Frawley did, if anyone, but even that is questionable considering the fact that he spent most of last year in attack!

p.s. As Oscar McDonald is also a defender, ( down the track ), trading pick 23 was inspired as it actually strengthened our defence by giving us two ( long-term) defenders.

Edited January 10, 2015 by CBDees

[CBDees 3,167]

James Frawley is a ready made player. Frost will need time. I'm worried for him. A couple of blunders (like the one he made against us this year) and he'll be very quickly placed under the Demonland microscope. He seems like a good kid with the physical tools to make it. Whether he can defend and read the play and make good choice with the pill remains to be seen. Give him a chance and be understanding of where he is at in his development. Frawley was far from the finished article after his first three seasons.

Why are you comparing Frawley with Frost? The person that you should be comparing is Brayshaw who was our compensation. IMO Brayshaw will prove as valuable for us long term as Frawley has been!

[Goodvibes 3,596]

Why are you comparing Frawley with Frost? The person that you should be comparing is Brayshaw who was our compensation. IMO Brayshaw will prove as valuable for us long term as Frawley has been!

Probably because I was making a point about the readiness and development of Frost and not assessing the appropriateness of our Frawley compensation. We lost a proven key defender in his prime and replaced him (positionally) with a young, still developing player with potential. Frost expectations need to be adjusted. That was my point.

[rpfc 28,261]

Lot of love for McDonald here. Apart from his running ability l find him bog ordinary.

How do you see that?

Tall young defender that rarely gets beaten and has a facet of his game, his endurance, that is a major weapon against the best forwards in the comp.

If you judge a tall defender on his basic skills, you are missing the point of; 1. What key position defenders should be primarily judged for, and 2. What makes skills so important for a team.

Defenders do their job when the opponents are not winning the footy, and skills are important for the 10 players on a team that get more than a handful of kicks a game, if they get less kicks than that and are still in the team - then they are not in the team to get kicks.

Like the excellent Tom McDonald.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Lot of love for McDonald here. Apart from his running ability l find him bog ordinary.

He's very good in a lot of ways without the ball in his hands.

[Vagg 2,439]

Mate, as an interstate supporter I can't make it to watch the boys train. Your training reports that you share with us are much appreciated, you obviously have good relationships within the club which allows you to have conversations with the players and coaches, all which you can keep to yourself, but you kindly choose to share some of those conversations and information on here with us, take it from me mate, people like you keep a lot of others interested in the club.

Agree totally, JVF. I, too, am interstate, and very much appreciate Saty's regular reports and comments re his banter with the players. Absolutely nothing wrong with it, and the constant sniping at him frankly pisses me off.

[CBDees 3,167]

Probably because I was making a point about the readiness and development of Frost and not assessing the appropriateness of our Frawley compensation. We lost a proven key defender in his prime and replaced him (positionally) with a young, still developing player with potential. Frost expectations need to be adjusted. That was my point.

Leaving aside Brayshaw and NB, we actually replaced Frawley (who we used in attack last year) with two defenders in Frost and Oscar McDonald. On balance, i think that we came out on top, defence-wise!

[Goodvibes 3,596]

Leaving aside Brayshaw and NB, we actually replaced Frawley (who we used in attack last year) with two defenders in Frost and Oscar McDonald. On balance, i think that we came out on top, defence-wise!

Long term. Possibly.

[Moonshadow 17,675]

Do you get a good view from your high horse.

Irony.

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

I just read Ben Newton's article on club website, where he reiterated what he had told me about the similarities with Port training

One thing I have noticed and it may be a Roos thing, very minor but shows the new mindset, and after viewing vision of both Bombers and Saints training on the telly.

Once a drill has finished, particularly a running drill, no player is allowed to sit on their haunches or lay down, immediately they get shouted at or another player goes across to keep them upright, seen this with Jamar and King, Viney and Harmes and a few others

Other good bits from training, Bernie Vince presser, the club had 10 guys under 10 minutes which is elite, but Bernie says it counts for nothing if it doesn't translate to game day.

Me thinking that the ball movement and kicking at one training was looking very good and Ben Mathews telling me it was 'ordinary', high standards

Justin (his surname escapes me), the Casey coach, being at most of the training sessions, learning from the best

Shannon Byrnes being a Casey player and coach, total professional and will ensure consistent standards on the field there as well

The total professionalism in everything, no more complaints from anybody about development, everybody from Roos to the property guys has a piece of paper dealing exactly what will occur during a particular session

Watching Jess Hogan, Jack Viney, Daniel Cross and Jack Grimes train, two young guns and two highly respected guys leading the way

Edited January 11, 2015 by The Devil Inside

[dazzledavey36 54,266]

I just read Ben Newton's article on club website, where he reiterated what he had told me about the similarities with Port training

One thing I have noticed and it may be a Roos thing, very minor but shows the new mindset, and after viewing vision of both Bombers and Saints training on the telly.

Once a drill has finished, particularly a running drill, no player is allowed to sit on their haunches or lay down, immediately they get shouted at or another player goes across to keep them upright, seen this with Jamar and King, Viney and Harmes and a few others

Other good bits from training, Bernie Vince presser, the club had 10 guys under 10 minutes which is elite, but Bernie says it counts for nothing if it doesn't translate to game day.

Me thinking that the ball movement and kicking at one training was looking very good and Ben Mathews telling me it was 'ordinary', high standards

Justin (his surname escapes me), the Casey coach, being at most of the training sessions, learning from the best

Shannon Byrnes being a Casey player and coach, total professional and will ensure consistent standards on the field there as well

The total professionalism in everything, no more complaints from anybody about development, everybody from Roos to the property guys has a piece of paper dealing exactly what will occur during a particular session

Watching Jess Hogan, Jack Viney, Daniel Cross and Jack Grimes train, two young guns and two highly respected guys leading the way

You were telling us all this same time around the Mark Neeld/Neil Craig days

Think I will wait till game day to see the proof in the pudding.

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

You were telling us all this same time around the Mark Neeld/Neil Craig days

Think I will wait till game day to see the proof in the pudding.

Training was very good during the Neeld era, different method of coaching though that didn't work, Craig knew his chops as well, Mission was only in his first year of dragging the players to correct level of fitness

I agree, won't know properly till June, but we are now looking like a Roos coached team, and the standards he sets

Edited January 11, 2015 by The Devil Inside

[Alcho Dee 269]

You were telling us all this same time around the Mark Neeld/Neil Craig days

Think I will wait till game day to see the proof in the pudding.

He is just relaying what he see's and hears, give it a break.

[Demon 16 209]

Toumpas needs to put himself up towards the top.

[the grint 71]

Could we trial Frost as a fwd in round 1? Although Pedo has the runs on the board for Dawesys spot

[durango 2,004]

I have not been to training for some years but I went to one at Moorabbin in Neeld/Craig last year and told Neeld/Craig after training I thougth the level was poor and very unstructured with most assistant coach goofing off and not doing their jobs. So if the new training methods mean the assistants doing some teaching/work this would be a change in itself. The training session I attended was about 2 weeks before the NAB cup. I was not surprised the team performed so poorly for the year.

We supporters seem to watch training with rose coloured glasses, I find that people who say something negative are attacked and made to look stupid.

By the way when my son was 19 he ran 5K in less than 16 minutes and he was a decathlete who's strengths were 100's and explosive events. So running 3K in over 12 minutes is reasonably poor.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I have not been to training for some years but I went to one at Moorabbin in Neeld/Craig last year and told Neeld/Craig after training I thougth the level was poor and very unstructured with most assistant coach goofing off and not doing their jobs. So if the new training methods mean the assistants doing some teaching/work this would be a change in itself. The training session I attended was about 2 weeks before the NAB cup. I was not surprised the team performed so poorly for the year.

We supporters seem to watch training with rose coloured glasses, I find that people who say something negative are attacked and made to look stupid.

By the way when my son was 19 he ran 5K in less than 16 minutes and he was a decathlete who's strengths were 100's and explosive events. So running 3K in over 12 minutes is reasonably poor.

Every time a new coaching regime comes in we hear how the training standards are lifting, personally I noticed very little difference between when Bailey and Neeld were coaching.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,023]

Every time a new coaching regime comes in we hear how the training standards are lifting, personally I noticed very little difference between when Bailey and Neeld were coaching.

I did.

When Bailey was coaching it looked like the local side down the park. They yelled a lot, dropped balls all over the place and generally stuffed around. Neeld got rid of that crap and tried to make them act like they were professional athletes. Unfortunately he turned out to have no people skills and alienated pretty much the entire list by being too blunt and harsh. Roos came in and said basically he same things as Neeld, followed a lot of the same strategies, but he has the people skills and the experience to sell it to the players and the supporters. It's still the same mantra of get them fitter and bring in some older, bigger and more experienced players to balance the young list, but Roos managed to get better quality imports and got the playing group behind him.

[dazzledavey36 54,266]

He is just relaying what he see's and hears, give it a break.

And good on him.

But on his past results he has jumped the gun way too early and sucked everyone in. Every year he talks about Professionalism this, Professionalism that..

My personal opinion is that this year I will wait till round 1 to see if he is on the board.

[rpfc 28,261]

Every time a new coaching regime comes in we hear how the training standards are lifting, personally I noticed very little difference between when Bailey and Neeld were coaching.

Training is training I will admit, but when I went to a recent training session it struck me how easily I knew the 'point' of everything they were doing. It may have been basic (kick to kick with four players in a cross formation to make players 'meet' the footy with the dukes out and hand it to either side), or more complex (game situation planning with a short lateral kick to CHB and then follow up runs through the other wing and the corridor), but I could easily see what they were trying to achieve.

When I went to a Neeld training at exactly the same time of the year (maybe a bit later in PS even), some of the drills were foreign to me or seemed 'pointless' to my eyes, players seemed to be just running through the motion of the drill, not much repeated by a majority of the players and I found it difficult to describe to myself what was happening.

Edited January 11, 2015 by rpfc