On 19/01/2015 at 04:03, The Devil Inside said:

I find it rather baffling that most have not got Grimes in the leadership group, the respect he has amongst the other players is probably second only to Jones

My group

Jones - Grimes, Dawes, Cross, Dunn and as a smokey Nev Jetta

Saty, why do you say Jetta's a smokey? What does he have that makes you think he might be leadership material?

I can see why you might have the others in your list, but I was surprised with Jetta's name popping up there.

  On 19/01/2015 at 04:03, The Devil Inside said:

I find it rather baffling that most have not got Grimes in the leadership group, the respect he has amongst the other players is probably second only to Jones

My group

Jones - Grimes, Dawes, Cross, Dunn and as a smokey Nev Jetta

What do you think about Jamar, I haven't seen his name on anyone's list?

Jones (captain) Dunn (vice) Dawes Grimes Vince Cross

Smokeys, Jamar, M.Jones

  On 19/01/2015 at 05:58, J VINEY FAN said:

What do you think about Jamar, I haven't seen his name on anyone's list?

Jones (captain) Dunn (vice) Dawes Grimes Vince Cross

Smokeys, Jamar, M.Jones

Mat Jones is very smoky he struggles to make the 22 most weeks.

  On 19/01/2015 at 06:01, old dee said:

Mat Jones is very smoky he struggles to make the 22 most weeks.

Rohan Bail for another smokey.

  On 19/01/2015 at 06:04, J VINEY FAN said:

Rohan Bail for another smokey.

I suspect they are both lost in the smoke JVF.

If either of those get a run I will be seriously worried about our ability to rise in 2015

  On 19/01/2015 at 06:01, old dee said:

Mat Jones is very smoky he struggles to make the 22 most weeks.

He's played 42 from a possible 44 games since we picked him up. Hardly been struggling for a game.

Not big on this leadership group thing. Preferred the old captain & vice captain model

However, in these modern times I would think Jones, Grimes (if he wanted it), Dawes and Cross are the types you'd be looking for. Probably HL as well. After that, Garland, maybe Jamar. Dunn is supposedly a leader on the track but I still can't bring myself to trust him.

I think there are a lot of future leaders there but they are a year or two away. Let them consolidate their footy careers first

  On 19/01/2015 at 06:43, Go the Biff said:

He's played 42 from a possible 44 games since we picked him up. Hardly been struggling for a game.

Not big on this leadership group thing. Preferred the old captain & vice captain model

However, in these modern times I would think Jones, Grimes (if he wanted it), Dawes and Cross are the types you'd be looking for. Probably HL as well. After that, Garland, maybe Jamar. Dunn is supposedly a leader on the track but I still can't bring myself to trust him.

I think there are a lot of future leaders there but they are a year or two away. Let them consolidate their footy careers first

My point is how many games would he get in the top 12 teams I suggest nil.

Getting a game at the MFC over the last two years does not say much about your ability.

  On 19/01/2015 at 07:15, old dee said:

My point is how many games would he get in the top 12 teams I suggest nil.

Getting a game at the MFC over the last two years does not say much about your ability.

To paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld "you play with the leaders you have, not the leaders you wish to have, or hope to have at a later time."

From an outside perspective and view of who should be in our LG:

Jones (Captain)
Dawes (VC)
Lamumba
Cross
Grimes
Dunn

The first four of those to me are no brainers. They're all highly driven and professional trainers and they're the ones who our younger crop will look up to. Especially on game day. Dawes and Lamumba love to direct and vocalise instruction on-field and Jones and Cross just lead the way with their unrelenting attack and focus on winning the ball.

Whilst of course Grimes displays many leadership qualities, relinquishing the captaincy does say something about his own form on game day. As Saty says, I have no doubt that players respect him highly as a leader in some areas of his game, but as far as form goes, you don't want your captain turning the ball over consistently. Im sure he'll remain in the LG and I'm looking forward to seeing him concentrate solely on his own game day performance.

Dunn is an interesting one. After his first really consistent year as a full-back, people are throwing his name up as a leader. It seems as though last year has given him a boost of confidence and after hearing him speaking about wanting to display more leadership qualities, I'm glad the penny has dropped for him and I hope last year will be a benchmark for him in terms of competitiveness and discipline levels.

The most important thing I see in all of this is that the players who are voted into the leadership group really nurture and show the way for what will hopefully be a really strong younger crop of leaders coming through. It's of utmost importance and will be a big factor in regards to how far we can go as a side over the next 5+ years.

Hogan
Viney
Petracca
Brayshaw
McDonald
Salem
Toumpas

These players show leadership characteristics and some of them have been leaders/captains at 18's level. We need to see these guys grow and really follow in the footsteps of guys like Jones, Cross, Dawes. They need to adopt the same habits on and off-field.

It's exciting because we have some really good senior leaders on our list (unlike in years gone by) and we also have an unbelievable coaching group in Roos, Goodwin and Macca which is something any young team would be envious of.

The early signs are good, let's hope we get a bit of luck along the way.

Can't wait for Round 1.

  On 19/01/2015 at 07:15, old dee said:

My point is how many games would he get in the top 12 teams I suggest nil.

Getting a game at the MFC over the last two years does not say much about your ability.

Dude, he is not playing in one of the top 12 teams

And the thread is about the 2015 MFC leadership group

Not sure how your point fits in here. Maybe start a "Matt Jones is tripe" thread & go your hardest there

  On 19/01/2015 at 22:58, Go the Biff said:

Dude, he is not playing in one of the top 12 teams

And the thread is about the 2015 MFC leadership group

Not sure how your point fits in here. Maybe start a "Matt Jones is tripe" thread & go your hardest there

He does not deserve to be in the LG.

How is that happy.

  On 19/01/2015 at 23:11, old dee said:

He does not deserve to be in the LG.

Appointment to the LG is not a bag of lollies you get for being good. It's a job you're given by people who trust you to do it, it's got nothing to do with anyone's idea of what you deserve. No-one's suggesting Matt will be appointed, but if you still see life in the horse, keep flogging.

  On 20/01/2015 at 01:23, Elusive Tunbridge said:

Appointment to the LG is not a bag of lollies you get for being good. It's a job you're given by people who trust you to do it, it's got nothing to do with anyone's idea of what you deserve. No-one's suggesting Matt will be appointed, but if you still see life in the horse, keep flogging.

I was having a discussion with Go the biff about Jones being a smoky for the LG.

I don't think he will get a regular game in 2015, I think that is a basic requirement for being in the LG.

Fairly simple Go the Biff thinks he is good enough I don't.

just two peoples opinions that vary not sure why you want turn this into me being a Jones basher.

  On 19/01/2015 at 05:53, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Saty, why do you say Jetta's a smokey? What does he have that makes you think he might be leadership material?

I can see why you might have the others in your list, but I was surprised with Jetta's name popping up there.

Didn't see this till now sorry, tend not to read some topics depends on who has taken it over Jetta is a highly respected member of the squad, had the support of a lot of the players when he was delisted and rookied, not the most vocal but when he does speak at team meetings etc, they listen, other players have told me that. Roos is an advocate for indigenous players, think he may look at him

  On 20/01/2015 at 03:22, The Devil Inside said:

Roos is an advocate for indigenous players, think he may look at him

Silly line this one mate.

Jetta will be a smoky for the other reasons that you have listed, not this one.

  On 20/01/2015 at 03:28, Rod Grinter Riot Squad said:

Silly line this one mate.

Jetta will be a smoky for the other reasons that you have listed, not this one.

What I meant chap was that some do not see indigenous players as leaders, you only have to look, listen and read some of the utter rubbish Goodes has to put up with, Roos also likes to make statements, not even sure whether the players will have the final say this time, if they do yes what I have put, but if not hence my comment about Roos...either way Nev will have earned it

  On 19/01/2015 at 05:58, J VINEY FAN said:

What do you think about Jamar, I haven't seen his name on anyone's list?

Jones (captain) Dunn (vice) Dawes Grimes Vince Cross

Smokeys, Jamar, M.Jones

I am not sure about Jamar, he is a senior player, think he might not show a lot of interest himself, getting to the point in his career where he needs to put himself first and ensure he is ready to go each week,and not have any distractions, saying that he is not very vocal at training although he does a lot of talking and instructing with the other rucks during sessions

  On 20/01/2015 at 02:02, old dee said:

I was having a discussion with Go the biff about Jones being a smoky for the LG.

I don't think he will get a regular game in 2015, I think that is a basic requirement for being in the LG.

Fairly simple Go the Biff thinks he is good enough I don't.

just two peoples opinions that vary not sure why you want turn this into me being a Jones basher.

Not what I said at all. You said he struggles to get a game most weeks. I pointed out he's played 42 from a possible 44 since drafted which is hardly struggling. At which point you went off on some weird tangent concernig top 12 clubs. Whatever.

I mentioned my thoughts on the leadership group. StevethemanJordan's excellent post better explains what I was too lazy to write

To finish on Matt Jones, he is a footballer with obvious limitations but he has a crack & provides run that others can't (or won't). I don't think many understand why he gets a game and I don't think he deserves a lot of the cheap shots he gets on here. Same applies to Bail. However neither would remotely be candidates for the LG in my view. I do agree OD that we will be a better team when those two, among others, have been supplanted in the team by better players.

  On 20/01/2015 at 03:22, The Devil Inside said:

Didn't see this till now sorry, tend not to read some topics depends on who has taken it over Jetta is a highly respected member of the squad, had the support of a lot of the players when he was delisted and rookied, not the most vocal but when he does speak at team meetings etc, they listen, other players have told me that. Roos is an advocate for indigenous players, think he may look at him

Thanks Saty. Appreciate the insight.

  On 20/01/2015 at 03:49, The Devil Inside said:

I am not sure about Jamar, he is a senior player, think he might not show a lot of interest himself, getting to the point in his career where he needs to put himself first and ensure he is ready to go each week,and not have any distractions, saying that he is not very vocal at training although he does a lot of talking and instructing with the other rucks during sessions

Saty - There has been some discussion on Matt Jones - doesn't really scream "leader" to me but I only see him from afar on game day. You see him at training. Your thoughts ?

Bernie Vince would be stiff not to get in the leadership group, would love to see him vice captain under Jonesy.

Captain - N Jones

VC - Dunn

LG - Grimes, Cross, Dawes, Jamar

These are the players that set the standards week in amd week out. I think Dunn for VC because of his form over the past few years, competitiveness, durability and his clubman status.

Grimes needs to focus on his own form so I dont think will be VC, while Dawes needs to play every game.

Garland also needs to get back to his 2011-2012 form to be a leadership candidate.

Jetta is a great role player and I don't think he needs to be in the LG to bring what he brings.

Gawn would be a candidate next year if he can play most games this season.

The younger brigade - Tyson, Viney, T Mac are probably 2-3 seasons away from taking on leadership responsibilty. Let the step up as the older players - Jamar, Cross and Vince retire.

Captain - Jones

VC- Dawes, Dunn (bookends)

Rest - Grimes, Cross, Vince, McDonald

TMac is ready for this, and there's no point waiting til the old guys are retired and there's a vacuum before realizing the younger guys need to start honing their leadership skills.

Garland and Lumumba just miss out due to the leadership group being to defence heavy other wise.

Prince - Lamumba

Serf's - the rest

Putting Grimes in the leadership group is like some posters naming him on the bench, some kind of constellation prize. If being part of the leadership group means so much as one extra meeting a year than he shouldn't be in it. He's currently busting his backside to be best 18, he can lead by the way he trains and attempts to play. He needs to focus 100% on salvaging his career.