That is a very very dangerous way to think.

And this isn't?

This period of governance under Roos and PJ is going to be nothing more than a sloight levelling out in a terminal death spiral.

If you think the demise of the club is a fait accompli then logically you should be giving the game away. It will only hurt more the longer you stay..

Having board members with business and community influence is all well and good but how long has it been since we've had a truly competent coach and CEO working towards the same end? A long damn time is the answer.

This is every bit as important a piece of the puzzle, and I would argue moreso. Onfield success is what will lift the club out of the mire. That is the club's core business. From that, everything else follow, including attracting supporters and members. We are "Melbourne" ffs. That is a large pool of youngsters to attract to our club. We just have to stop playing rubbish football and create a strong, stable environment for the players.

Roos' real test is coming in his second year, but no-one can honestly say that Jackson has put a foot wrong since he's arrived. My confidence in their abilities is what is keeping my faith, because I know how important their roles are in transforming a football club.

Happy with two years, I believe he is what we need now but his defensive style may be dated, his protégés Longmire and Lyon have been out coached recently with better sides.

He is no God, just a one time premiership coach who bailed on the Swans.

Maybe after three years a younger coach like Goodwin will be the answer.

I agree with your summary Bluey.

I like slot of things Roos has done so far but for mine the jury is out on the defensive game style we are playing. I hope it evolves in 2015.

As a club that could kick more than 100 points in a game it was embarrassing and boring to watch.

I think it's also right to be skeptical on the messiah aura around Roos.

Clubs including this one have been duped because they put blind faith in past player messiahs only to be badly let down by the reality of the situation.

Leigh Matthews says that the ultimate ingredient for premiership success is 90% the talent on your list. The rest of the ingredients including coaching, admin and a touch of luck at times makes up the remaining 10%.

Strong and competent club admin is important but it is not everything.

You are right in that MFC have been badly hamstrung by incompetent administrations. But that only been part of our problems.

yes talent is the important thing. but who chooses the young talent? And who employs the people who choose the talent. And further to that, who creates a stable environment that talent wants to join?

It all starts at the top.

And this isn't?

If you think the demise of the club is a fait accompli then logically you should be giving the game away. It will only hurt more the longer you stay..

Having board members with business and community influence is all well and good but how long has it been since we've had a truly competent coach and CEO working towards the same end? A long damn time is the answer.

This is every bit as important a piece of the puzzle, and I would argue moreso. Onfield success is what will lift the club out of the mire. That is the club's core business. From that, everything else follow, including attracting supporters and members. We are "Melbourne" ffs. That is a large pool of youngsters to attract to our club. We just have to stop playing rubbish football and create a strong, stable environment for the players.

Roos' real test is coming in his second year, but no-one can honestly say that Jackson has put a foot wrong since he's arrived. My confidence in their abilities is what is keeping my faith, because I know how important their roles are in transforming a football club.

The four most important positions in an AFL are

Chairman/President

Coach

CEO

Captain

Successful clubs that win premierships have these positions filled by competent experienced and capable people.

How long since MFC got all four of those positions right?

I can't recall a time when it's occurred in the past 40 years.

yes talent is the important thing. but who chooses the young talent? And who employs the people who choose the talent. And further to that, who creates a stable environment that talent wants to join?

It all starts at the top.

Football Dept not admin.

See my post on the 4 key positions in the club.

It's not admin......it's leadership at each critical level.

And it starts from the Board.

The four most important positions in an AFL are

Chairman/President

Coach

CEO

Captain

Successful clubs that win premierships have these positions filled by competent experienced and capable people.

How long since MFC got all four of those positions right?

I can't recall a time when it's occurred in the past 40 years.

I believe we've got 3 out of 4 on that one, jury is still out on Bartlett. Not doubting him, just at this stage there isn't much to suggest he'll be any better than any of his predecessors.

And you're dead right, we haven't been in a position where we've nailed every one of those roles in decades.

I believe we've got 3 out of 4 on that one, jury is still out on Bartlett. Not doubting him, just at this stage there isn't much to suggest he'll be any better than any of his predecessors.

And you're dead right, we haven't been in a position where we've nailed every one of those roles in decades.

At this stage, Bartlett isnt any worse than some of his predecessors..

And FWIW, I think we have nailed 2 out of 4 with the CEO and Captain (Jones).

who has coached a better season at the MFC (with a worse list mind you)

Bailey or Roos

Put it this way.

Now even when we win, its garbage to watch.

If this club is to prosper, it needs to put bums on seats or persuade folks to watch on TV.

If we keep down the path were heading, thats not gonna happen.

Even if we do win a few games by strangulation.

So you are not happy with Roos and you think he is overrated. Fair enough.

You're also not happy with Goodwin and succession plans.

So what's your solution?

Lets not just fall into the Roos messiah mentality for a start.

He's the present coach, not sure he should be employing a puppet/coach and deciding what game plan they are to use.

We wait for Roos to finish his tenure.

Then see whos available at the time.

If having Roos coaching has taught me 1 thing.

We need a coach with senior AFL coaching experience who has a steady hand on the wheel.

Hows that?

Edited October 4, 201410 yr by Fork 'em

who has coached a better season at the MFC (with a worse list mind you)

Bailey or Roos

At this stage Bailey.....with a worst list.

For mine 2015 will be a very important year for Roos.

I can understand that Roos was trying to block holes in the MFC ship this year but we cant prolong this defensive only game style.

It wont be successful and as others have pointed out......its awful to watch.

I want MFC to win.....but I also want to enjoy the spectacle of winning.

Put it this way.

Now even when we win, its garbage to watch.

If this club is to prosper, it needs to put bums on seats or persuade folks to watch on TV.

If we keep down the path were heading, thats not gonna happen.

Even if we do win a few games by strangulation.

Have patience, basically.

People say "offense is important too" like it's some mystery that Roos isn't aware of. Of course he is. But he believes in building blocks, with defence coming first. In the first half of the season at least, before the legs ran out of gas, that building block was put in place.

Neeld spoke about a team that was "hard to play against". In the first half of the season, Roos didn't need to talk about it. He achieved it.

Now it's a matter of re-enforcement. The attacking side will come, but it was always unlikely to come in the first sason under a Roos coached side that is coming from as far back as we were/are.

Edited October 4, 201410 yr by P-man

At this stage Bailey.....with a worst list.

For mine 2015 will be a very important year for Roos.

I can understand that Roos was trying to block holes in the MFC ship this year but we cant prolong this defensive only game style.

It wont be successful and as others have pointed out......its awful to watch.

I want MFC to win.....but I also want to enjoy the spectacle of winning.

I couldn't give a toss how we win, just bloody win. That's the aim of the game, FCS. Given where we've been, I can't believe people are whingeing about game style.

The four most important positions in an AFL are

Chairman/President

Coach

CEO

Captain

Disagree

Try

Coach

CEO

List Manager

Head recruiter

I couldn't give a toss how we win, just bloody win. That's the aim of the game, FCS. Given where we've been, I can't believe people are whingeing about game style.

It's just more of the same carp that we have been seeing for so long.

Oh, it's not making us win either....I mean that is the aim of the game.

Maybe game result could be linked to game style and people don't like it....just saying.

Disagree

Try

Coach

CEO

List Manager

Head recruiter

And who appoints the Coach and CEO?

It's just more of the same carp that we have been seeing for so long.

Oh, it's not making us win either....I mean that is the aim of the game.

Maybe game result could be linked to game style and people don't like it....just saying.

It's linked to the available cattle most of the time. You only had to watch even half of our games this year to see our players were incapable of basic AFL skills once under pressure. Get another 6-8 AFL standard players, add them to the 6 or so we picked up last off season and the four or five others we have and we can field a side that can win 8 or so games next year. We're not going to be playing Bailey's style of football, so if you expect that you'll be disappointed. With a functioning forwardline, you'll see a rise in forward thrusts and more attacking play.

Edited October 4, 201410 yr by AdamFarr

And who appoints the Coach and CEO?

Roosey apparently.

I agree with your summary Bluey.

The claim that Longmire and Lyon have been "out-coached" sits at odds with their records. Of the last 6 grand finals, only one hasn't included a "Roos protégé".

Also an odd claim given that Longmire has been recently voted "coach of the year" by his peers - for the second time in 3 years.

The claim that Longmire and Lyon have been "out-coached" sits at odds with their records. Of the last 6 grand finals, only one hasn't included a "Roos protégé".

Also an odd claim given that Longmire has been recently voted "coach of the year" by his peers - for the second time in 3 years.

Longmires record is better than Lyon's no doubt.

And only one GF has been won by a Roos protege. And the common theme in all those losses they cant kick winning score. In particular Lyons strangulation of games is being picked apart with the evolution of game tactics.

And its interesting this year's coach of the year didnt see the 2014 GF result coming. Its monkey on his back given the Swans had bought their way to GF and then as raging favourites gave little more than a whimper.

I'm with you C&B, this succession thing is BS.

Not happy we've locked in Goodwin either.

Who knows who will be available in a year or 2?

Reakon Roos is overrated too.

He was in the right place at the right time at the Swans.

Inherited Eades list.

Used Lyons game plan.

Handed over to Longmire when the list aged and become time to rebuild.

I liked this based on the fact the post is dripping in sarcasm... isn't it?

God, please tell me it is.

I'm convinced the 18 team competition has split the depth of coaches just as much as it has players. At any one time I don't believe there is more than 6-8 Premiership capable coaches in the AFL, to be honest I think this flows through virtually every elite sporting competition. Having on of those capable in charge of your club is crucial for player retention, attraction, the confidence it gives the broader club etc.

Roos is clearly a Premiership capable coach, it's proven. The capable coach then needs a capable playing list, and in this aspect we are miles and miles off.

I don't believe Buckley, Hardwick, mcCartney or B Scott are premiership capable. They may be, but I don't see it. They all do, or have had a more capable player group than Roos has though.

My nervousness is all about whether Goodwin is premiership capable, and too be honest I've no idea. Yes I'd rather Clarkson, who wouldn't......but to get a new coach like Goodwin I am comforted by the fact his learning environment prior to taking over couldn't be any smoother or better, it's well thought, well planned and will ensure capable players understand it.

I'd love Roos for longer, but given the situation and our deplorable 40+ years I'm very relieved we've got him for a mini generation.

I expect big things in 2015, and think we will see the fruition of that over the next two weeks at the trade table and draft. Premiership capable coaches don't sit idle and wait for it to happen for them (as the Bulldogs have done for ten years in finding a forward), they crack in and get it done.

Having coached several state level premierships I do truly believe defence wins flags, but only if you have the attacking quality players to make the most of it.......and we don't, yet.

Go Demons.

^^^^ Well Said 64...

Hawthorn have great scoring power and they have players who can play in any role on the field, but don't be fooled about them not being defensive like Freo. Hawks won that game last week with their tenacity and also their defensive pressure in their forward 50. The big difference in them and Freo is Hawthorns ability to have multiple attacking options, Freo's style always keeps them in most games and Sydney also rely heavily on defensive pressure in the forward arc and around the clearances.

Premierships are not easy to win and as we improve Roos defensive game will be tweaked as Longmire has with the Swans since taking over adding a greater attacking flair whilst still maintaining the defensive aspect around the ground.

As for Ross Lyon not being a Premiership coach, from where we are now I'd gladly take over the next few years two close GF losses and a GF draw. Matty Scarlett's toe poke in the centre of the ground from Dawson's spoil and Lenny Hayes's bomb inside 50 bouncing away from Milne had nothing to do with tactics or coaching by Lyon and those are two of the main reasons why he is not a two time Premiership coach

Edited October 4, 201410 yr by Pennant St Dee

As for Ross Lyon not being a Premiership coach, from where we are now I'd gladly take over the next few years two close GF losses and a GF draw. Matty Scarlett's toe poke in the centre of the ground from Dawson's spoil and Lenny Hayes's bomb inside 50 bouncing away from Milne had nothing to do with tactics or coaching by Lyon and those are two of the main reasons why he is not a two time Premiership coach

Maybe, because of Lyons overly defensive game plan, the opposition's always within a toe poke and a dodgy bounce of victory themselves.

Maybe, because of Lyons overly defensive game plan, the opposition's always within a toe poke and a dodgy bounce of victory themselves.

Six of one and half a dozen of the other, Freo certainly lacked fire power. His sides were big time underdogs against the white hot Pies in 2010, were underdogs last season but timed their run and fitness levels perfectly. Still believe 2009 was the missed chance for Lyon and the Saints