I know it is pointless to look back at the past and this has probably been done to death already but as a supporter overseas when I talk to someone about AFL and the team I follow (maybe I should lie) I am often asked why my team is so rubbish. The quick answer I give is that we haven't drafted the right players in recent years. As I currently have some time on my hands I have had a look into this in more detail and it is shocking reading.

As obvious as it is, clearly the biggest reason the club is where it is now is our drafting, in particular our inability to get value from our top 20 draft pics. I know that development of players is also an issue (who knows how much) but very few players that we have selected in the top 20 have gone on to forge successful careers at other clubs once we parted ways with them so I'd suggest they were not up to it in the first place.

I think you can trace the issues as far back as 2001/2002, if you look at the players to come out of these drafts a number are club captains/legends of the game. We have no leadership from this era other than what we have brought in from outside the club.

I know that if we made better selections in the earlier years then we would not have finished so low on the ladder and got the early draft picks in subsequent years but ignoring this for the sake of the exercise our records for picks 1 to 20 is horrific and makes for some terrible reading:

I have excluded 2012/2013 as they are too soon to call definitively. And I also snuck in pick 21 from 2007 (near enough)

2001 - FAIL....Could be a 200 plus game leader of the club in the final year or two of career

Pick 9: Luke Molan – Zero Games

Pick 17: Traded to Geelong along with Pick 41 for Clint Bizzell (Geelong Selected James Kelly with 17)

Notable players available at these selections who are still playing:

Nick Dal Santo #13, James Kelly #17, Steve Johnson #24, Sam Mitchell #36, Leigh Montagna #37, Dane Swan #58, Brian Lake #71, Andrew Carazzo #5 Rookie Draft (RD), Matthew Boyd #23 (RD), Aaron Sandilands #33 (RD)

2002 – FAIL.....Again could be a 200 plus game leader at club in the final year or two of career

Pick 14: Daniel Bell – 66 Games

Pick 15: Nicholas Smith – 4 Games

Notable players available at these selections who are still playing:

Will Minson #20, Tom Lonergan #23, Daniel Merrett #30, Kade Simpson #45, Ryan Crowley #55, Nick Malceski #64, Brad Sewell #7 (RD), Michael Firrito #10 (RD)

2003 – FAIL.....OK this was a rubbish draft to have a priority selection but with two picks in the top 5 should have at least one very solid player out of this draft still on our list and a leader at the club

Pick 3: Colin Sylvia – 157 Games

Pick 5: Brock McLean – 94 Games

Notable players available at these selections who are still playing:

Beau Waters #11, Brent Stanton #13, Troy Chaplin #15, David Mundy #19, Jed Adcock #33, Daniel Jackson #53, Sam Fisher #55, Michael Rischitelli #61, Michael Johnson #8 Pre-Season Draft (PSD)

2004 - LOW PASS.....Both have played 100 games for the club and Dunn has been one of our better players this year, neither though have been consistent performers over their career

Pick 13: Matthew Bate – 102 Games

Pick 15: Lynden Dunn – 138 Games

Notable players available at these selections who are still playing:

Angus Monfries #14, Nathan Van Berlo #24, Matt Rosa #29, Mark Lecras #37, Ivan Maric #40, Eddie Betts #3 (PSD), Dale Morris #19 (RD)

2005 – WIN.........Finally a winner, can’t fault Nathan Jones at Pick 12

Pick 12: Nathan Jones - 178 Games

2006 – WIN.....Probably have to say this is a win too, although I am in the camp hoping Frawley is not at the club next year and we can use the compensation to good effect

Pick 12: James Frawley

Notable players available at this selection:

Jack Riewoldt #13, Mitchell Brown #16, Eric MacKenzie #29, Kurt Tippett #32, Todd Goldstein #37, Robbie Gray #55, Justin Westhoff #71, Sam Jacobs #1 (RD),

2007 – FAIL.......Grimes gets a pass although as a footballer he has his limitations, the other two are clear busts, especially Morton considering the quality of players available at pick 4

Pick 4: Cale Morton - 73 Games

Pick 14: Jack Grimes – 86 Games

Pick 21: Addam Maric – 21 Games

Notable players available at this selection:

David Myers #6, Lachlan Henderson #8, Ben McEvoy #9, Patrick Dangerfield #10, Cyril Rioli #12, Brad Ebert #13, Harry Taylor #17, Alex Rance #18, Callan Ward #19, Scott Selwood #22, Scott Thompson (NM) #37, Chris Mayne #40, Jack Steven #42, Cale Hooker #54, Nathan Grima #14 (RD), Brodie Martin #52 (RD), Shane Mumford #57 (RD)

2008 – HUGE FAIL.....Very doubtful any of these 3 will be at the club next year. From these picks we should have at least 2 near 100 game players to build a side around. The list of available players at these picks makes for hard reading.

Pick 1: Jack Watts – 94 Games

Pick 17: Sam Blease – 33 Games

Pick 19: James Strauss – 24 Games

Notable players available at these selections:

Nick Naitanui #2, Stephen Hill #3, Hamish Hartlett #4, Michael Hurley #5, Chris Yarran #6, Daniel Rich #7, Jack Ziebell #9, Phil Davis #10, Steele Sidebottom #11, Luke Shuey #18, Hayden Ballantyne #21, Jackson Trengove #22, David Zaharakis #23, Jack Redden #25, Dayne Beams #29, Daniel Hannebery #30, Liam Shiels #34, Stephen Motlop #39, Rory Sloane #44, Tom Rockliff #5 (PSD), Luke Breust #47 (RD)

2009 – HUGE FAIL......Another terrible effort, ultimately Tom $cully pissing off could do us a favour in the long run with Hogan now on the list but we have had no use of that pick for the last 2 years now and will have to wait another year or two of development. Trengrove is a solid but limited footballer and Gysberts who was a surprise selection amounted to nothing at the club or at North Melbourne

Pick 1: Tom Scully – 31 Games

Pick 2: Jack Trengrove – 81 Games

Pick 11: Jordan Gysberts – 19 Games

Notable players available at these selections:

Dustin Martin #3, Ben Cunnington #5, Daniel Talia #13, Lewis Jetta #14, Nat Fyfe #20, Ryan Bastinac #21, Jake Carlisle #24, Mitch Duncan #28, Jack Gunston #29, Sam Reid #38, Allen Christensen #40,

2010 – FAIL.....Cook was another surprise selection and didn't play a single game nor was he picked up by another club subsequently. You have to go very deep in this draft to find another player that did not play a single game

Pick 12: Lucas Cook – Zero Games

Notable players available at these selections:

Brodie Smith #14, Shaun Atley #17, Issac Smith #19, Cameron Guthrie #23, Jack Darling #26, Scott Lycett #29, Josh Green #32, Luke Parker #40, Paul Puopolo #66, Josh Jenkins #12 (RD), Luke Dahllhaus #22 (RD)

2011 – FAIL.......Can’t blame the club for this one but at the end of the day it is another one that has not gone our way and cost us a useful player that we could have drafted if we used the pick (although with our strike rate, probably not)

Pick 12: Traded to Brisbane for Mitch Clark – 15 Games

Notable players available at these selections:

Taylor Adams #13, Devon Smith #14, Brandon Ellis #15, Jackson Merrett #31, Bradley Hill #33, Sam Rowe #44, Jordon Murdoch #48,

This is a terrible record. Ten years of bad drafting which makes we wonder, is there a way back? how many years will it take to rebuild this list that has a very limited core group of players to build around?

Edited August 24, 201411 yr by Demon Abroad

Makes me want to cry as I have done the same analysis many times. Ohhh what might have been!

What a disgraceful performance by the football department over the decade. Lets hope our new professional team will make immediate impact I am very hopeful

Trouble is it will take 3 - 4 years to fix the mess

And please dont say "" hind sight is a wonderful thing" Its a cop out and smacks of complete denial of reality

Great timing for this thread. Good way to ruin any excitement about the up and coming draft by reminding us that we'll most likely blow it again.....

Thanks mate!

From those 21 picks, almost a full side of early picks that should be between 21-30yo, we will have 4 maybe even 3 players left on our list at seasons end.

Definitely depressing reading, I hope to hell the club has done analysis on who they drafted and why as well as what went wrong so that they hopefully do not repeat such vast stupidity.

Great timing for this thread. Good way to ruin any excitement about the up and coming draft by reminding us that we'll most likely blow it again.....

Thanks mate!

I don't think it does anything of the sort but it does show we are a long way back and is pretty good evidence of the need for a PP.

^^ Potato, potatoe....each person will interpret it differently.

I will say that I have a lot more faith with this recruitment team than previously. However, I don't think you could blame me for being apprehensive about every pick we choose, especially given our track history.

Depressing to read.

Clint Bizzell wasn't a failure, but I am biased and agree with the rest.

Perhaps what it shows is the attempt to equalize the competition is more difficult than it appears.

There is no doubt our underfunded football department over the last decade has been one of the major factors in our failure.

Recruiting is a rare skill, few can do it. Until we get someone that can we will struggle. Lets hope Jason Taylor and Todd Viney have the smarts.

You forgot Mr Ceramic Tapscott.

Perhaps what it shows is the attempt to equalize the competition is more difficult than it appears.

There is no doubt our underfunded football department over the last decade has been one of the major factors in our failure.

Recruiting is a rare skill, few can do it. Until we get someone that can we will struggle. Lets hope Jason Taylor and Todd Viney have the smarts.

The thing that I find strange is that it feels as though Melbourne have drafted better with their late picks. Therefore, I would have thought that a lack of funding would impact on these picks more as they are more speculative and require more research.

It would be interesting to compare prominent phantom drafts with real draft results and assess which have been more successful.

2009 – HUGE FAIL......Another terrible effort, ultimately Tom $cully pissing off could do us a favour in the long run with Hogan now on the list but we have had no use of that pick for the last 2 years now and will have to wait another year or two of development. Trengrove is a solid but limited footballer and Gysberts who was a surprise selection amounted to nothing at the club or at North Melbourne

Pick 1: Tom Scully – 31 Games

Pick 2: Jack Trengrove – 81 Games

Pick 11: Jordan Gysberts – 19 Games

Notable players available at these selections:

Dustin Martin #3, Ben Cunnington #5, Daniel Talia #13, Lewis Jetta #14, Nat Fyfe #20, Ryan Bastinac #21, Jake Carlisle #24, Mitch Duncan #28, Jack Gunston #29, Sam Reid #38, Allen Christensen #40,

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9VLwV48OHs&list=PL5839DAE6FDB764BD but you've given 2009 a huge fail without including Luke Tapscott at 18.

You're welcome.

Edit: Olisik beat me to it while I was learning the wonders of cut and paste.

Edited August 25, 201411 yr by pantaloons

I know it is pointless to look back at the past and this has probably been done to death already but as a supporter overseas when I talk to someone about AFL and the team I follow (maybe I should lie) I am often asked why my team is so rubbish. The quick answer I give is that we haven't drafted the right players in recent years. As I currently have some time on my hands I have had a look into this in more detail and it is shocking reading.

As obvious as it is, clearly the biggest reason the club is where it is now is our drafting, in particular our inability to get value from our top 20 draft pics. I know that development of players is also an issue (who knows how much) but very few players that we have selected in the top 20 have gone on to forge successful careers at other clubs once we parted ways with them so I'd suggest they were not up to it in the first place.

I think you can trace the issues as far back as 2001/2002, if you look at the players to come out of these drafts a number are club captains/legends of the game. We have no leadership from this era other than what we have brought in from outside the club.

I know that if we made better selections in the earlier years then we would not have finished so low on the ladder and got the early draft picks in subsequent years but ignoring this for the sake of the exercise our records for picks 1 to 20 is horrific and makes for some terrible reading:

I have excluded 2012/2013 as they are too soon to call definitively. And I also snuck in pick 21 from 2007 (near enough)

2001 - FAIL....Could be a 200 plus game leader of the club in the final year or two of career

Pick 9: Luke Molan – Zero Games

Pick 17: Traded to Geelong along with Pick 41 for Clint Bizzell (Geelong Selected James Kelly with 17)

Notable players available at these selections who are still playing:

Nick Dal Santo #13, James Kelly #17, Steve Johnson #24, Sam Mitchell #36, Leigh Montagna #37, Dane Swan #58, Brian Lake #71, Andrew Carazzo #5 Rookie Draft (RD), Matthew Boyd #23 (RD), Aaron Sandilands #33 (RD)

2002 – FAIL.....Again could be a 200 plus game leader at club in the final year or two of career

Pick 14: Daniel Bell – 66 Games

Pick 15: Nicholas Smith – 4 Games

Notable players available at these selections who are still playing:

Will Minson #20, Tom Lonergan #23, Daniel Merrett #30, Kade Simpson #45, Ryan Crowley #55, Nick Malceski #64, Brad Sewell #7 (RD), Michael Firrito #10 (RD)

2003 – FAIL.....OK this was a rubbish draft to have a priority selection but with two picks in the top 5 should have at least one very solid player out of this draft still on our list and a leader at the club

Pick 3: Colin Sylvia – 157 Games

Pick 5: Brock McLean – 94 Games

Notable players available at these selections who are still playing:

Beau Waters #11, Brent Stanton #13, Troy Chaplin #15, David Mundy #19, Jed Adcock #33, Daniel Jackson #53, Sam Fisher #55, Michael Rischitelli #61, Michael Johnson #8 Pre-Season Draft (PSD)

2004 - LOW PASS.....Both have played 100 games for the club and Dunn has been one of our better players this year, neither though have been consistent performers over their career

Pick 13: Matthew Bate – 102 Games

Pick 15: Lynden Dunn – 138 Games

Notable players available at these selections who are still playing:

Angus Monfries #14, Nathan Van Berlo #24, Matt Rosa #29, Mark Lecras #37, Ivan Maric #40, Eddie Betts #3 (PSD), Dale Morris #19 (RD)

2005 – WIN.........Finally a winner, can’t fault Nathan Jones at Pick 12

Pick 12: Nathan Jones - 178 Games

2006 – WIN.....Probably have to say this is a win too, although I am in the camp hoping Frawley is not at the club next year and we can use the compensation to good effect

Pick 12: James Frawley

Notable players available at this selection:

Jack Riewoldt #13, Mitchell Brown #16, Eric MacKenzie #29, Kurt Tippett #32, Todd Goldstein #37, Robbie Gray #55, Justin Westhoff #71, Sam Jacobs #1 (RD),

2007 – FAIL.......Grimes gets a pass although as a footballer he has his limitations, the other two are clear busts, especially Morton considering the quality of players available at pick 4

Pick 4: Cale Morton - 73 Games

Pick 14: Jack Grimes – 86 Games

Pick 21: Addam Maric – 21 Games

Notable players available at this selection:

David Myers #6, Lachlan Henderson #8, Ben McEvoy #9, Patrick Dangerfield #10, Cyril Rioli #12, Brad Ebert #13, Harry Taylor #17, Alex Rance #18, Callan Ward #19, Scott Selwood #22, Scott Thompson (NM) #37, Chris Mayne #40, Jack Steven #42, Cale Hooker #54, Nathan Grima #14 (RD), Brodie Martin #52 (RD), Shane Mumford #57 (RD)

2008 – HUGE FAIL.....Very doubtful any of these 3 will be at the club next year. From these picks we should have at least 2 near 100 game players to build a side around. The list of available players at these picks makes for hard reading.

Pick 1: Jack Watts – 94 Games

Pick 17: Sam Blease – 33 Games

Pick 19: James Strauss – 24 Games

Notable players available at these selections:

Nick Naitanui #2, Stephen Hill #3, Hamish Hartlett #4, Michael Hurley #5, Chris Yarran #6, Daniel Rich #7, Jack Ziebell #9, Phil Davis #10, Steele Sidebottom #11, Luke Shuey #18, Hayden Ballantyne #21, Jackson Trengove #22, David Zaharakis #23, Jack Redden #25, Dayne Beams #29, Daniel Hannebery #30, Liam Shiels #34, Stephen Motlop #39, Rory Sloane #44, Tom Rockliff #5 (PSD), Luke Breust #47 (RD)

2009 – HUGE FAIL......Another terrible effort, ultimately Tom $cully pissing off could do us a favour in the long run with Hogan now on the list but we have had no use of that pick for the last 2 years now and will have to wait another year or two of development. Trengrove is a solid but limited footballer and Gysberts who was a surprise selection amounted to nothing at the club or at North Melbourne

Pick 1: Tom Scully – 31 Games

Pick 2: Jack Trengrove – 81 Games

Pick 11: Jordan Gysberts – 19 Games

Notable players available at these selections:

Dustin Martin #3, Ben Cunnington #5, Daniel Talia #13, Lewis Jetta #14, Nat Fyfe #20, Ryan Bastinac #21, Jake Carlisle #24, Mitch Duncan #28, Jack Gunston #29, Sam Reid #38, Allen Christensen #40,

2010 – FAIL.....Cook was another surprise selection and didn't play a single game nor was he picked up by another club subsequently. You have to go very deep in this draft to find another player that did not play a single game

Pick 12: Lucas Cook – Zero Games

Notable players available at these selections:

Brodie Smith #14, Shaun Atley #17, Issac Smith #19, Cameron Guthrie #23, Jack Darling #26, Scott Lycett #29, Josh Green #32, Luke Parker #40, Paul Puopolo #66, Josh Jenkins #12 (RD), Luke Dahllhaus #22 (RD)

2011 – FAIL.......Can’t blame the club for this one but at the end of the day it is another one that has not gone our way and cost us a useful player that we could have drafted if we used the pick (although with our strike rate, probably not)

Pick 12: Traded to Brisbane for Mitch Clark – 15 Games

Notable players available at these selections:

Taylor Adams #13, Devon Smith #14, Brandon Ellis #15, Jackson Merrett #31, Bradley Hill #33, Sam Rowe #44, Jordon Murdoch #48,

This is a terrible record. Ten years of bad drafting which makes we wonder, is there a way back? how many years will it take to rebuild this list that has a very limited core group of players to build around?

well done Demon abroad.

I highlighted some players I wanted us to pick above, as the Types I wanted us to recruit. Some boys with some aggressive edge to them, from the ones I saw.

I wanted us to get more aggression into our list & abandon the choir boys. We can recruit skilled players who aren't also boys next door.

I would have taken blease before Zarharakis, but there ya go? the game changed into a less space game.

I disagree with 2009. Drafting Scully was a master stroke! With him defecting to GWS and the ridiculous compensation that the AFL had in place enabled us to get rid of a player who has been a complete bust and get Hogan and Barry, a big win.

Trengove will be quite ok.

I can only agree with you on Gysberts. Having said that, there must have been something there. Not many players get two Rising Star nominations and then do not kick on. Also, we essentially swapped him for Pederson which I would have previously said was a wash but now I think we came out way in front.

I tend to agree with others that suggest that more pick gives you greater opportunity to get one or 2 "stars"

IF our development and list management has improved, I would be looking at trading for known talent and getting extra picks in the top 20 by trading. Another 2 for one like Tyson may be the way to go?

If the AFL was serious about equalisation. It would give the bottom 4 clubs access to the top 12 picks.

The competition can not be equal until all clubs have a chance of winning.

^^ Potato, potatoe....each person will interpret it differently.

I will say that I have a lot more faith with this recruitment team than previously. However, I don't think you could blame me for being apprehensive about every pick we choose, especially given our track history.

I shall now think of you as Dan Quayle reincarnate, and that cannot be a good thing.

The thing that I find strange is that it feels as though Melbourne have drafted better with their late picks. Therefore, I would have thought that a lack of funding would impact on these picks more as they are more speculative and require more research.

It would be interesting to compare prominent phantom drafts with real draft results and assess which have been more successful.

Fair point. I haven't done the analysis but I suspect most clubs have players drafted late.

We get ok players late but nobody "special"! Bloody frustrating.

And please dont say "" hind sight is a wonderful thing" Its a cop out and smacks of complete denial of reality

And statements like this show absolutely zero understanding in relation to drafting - you can only pick the best at the time.

Again Cook, Strauss and Gysberts were NOT the best available at that time and the recruiters should definitely be held to account for those picks. Watts vs Niknat is a comparison that will be made until the end of days as they were clearly the pick of the bunch - if anything Niknat was slightly favoured however we went the home grown boy.

But for anyone to suggest that Scully and Trengove should not have been taken at the time, as you so eloquently put it, are in complete denial of reality.

How was Tapscotts body in juniors as his whole senior career his had the body of a 30 yr old. I cant remember when his ever had 5 games straight without injury. It has been his downfall.

Have done a similar depressing thread before about this. Probably a couple of times...

I go back a couple of years earlier as we also surrendered Pick 5 in 1999 after the Jeff White poaching stuff...

It really is the fundamental reason why we are in the wilderness and while I hope we get a PP as it helps us get back to civilisation - we can do it. But it will take so very special drafting and a success rate of top 30 picks close to 100%.

The last couple of years have looked promising, but it is too early to tell.

We simply can't take a wrong turn in the next few Octobers and Novembers.

And statements like this show absolutely zero understanding in relation to drafting - you can only pick the best at the time.

Again Cook, Strauss and Gysberts were NOT the best available at that time and the recruiters should definitely be held to account for those picks. Watts vs Niknat is a comparison that will be made until the end of days as they were clearly the pick of the bunch - if anything Niknat was slightly favoured however we went the home grown boy.

But for anyone to suggest that Scully and Trengove should not have been taken at the time, as you so eloquently put it, are in complete denial of reality.

Yes Nut you are right but you must be able to determine which player is best and we havent been very good at that have we?It surely cant be as difficult as our guys have nade it that the point isnt it failed miserably under any analysis Its about the outcomes surely is the only way of measuring it>

Yes Nut you are right but you must be able to determine which player is best and we havent been very good at that have we?It surely cant be as difficult as our guys have nade it that the point isnt it failed miserably under any analysis Its about the outcomes surely is the only way of measuring it>

I disagree vehemently ! This idea that you must be able to determine the best - you can only determine the best at the time - as to how they will turn out - its crystal ball and tattslotto stuff. As i said before go backthrough drafts - Wines went down the order and IMO is the best from that draft. Bontempelli is looking the best from this draft to date ( we are judging way too early). The order in which players are selected compared to their careers is proof enough of how inexact the science. If you had to rearrange every draft going back on what we know now not one would be in the correct order. What does that tell you ?

I have said elsewhere though - it is extra difficult for us - we have had poor structures, poor coaching, poor senior players ( mentors). Imagine JKH sitting in the forward pocket at the Hawks - Clarkson coaching, Roughead, Gunston, Rioli around you - make life a bit easier ?

I have maintained that we have developed our youth very poorly and I am hoping the new structure will get it right. I do fear though that we dont give our players enough time to develop in the magoos as we have no one in the seniors that will keep them out.

Have done a similar depressing thread before about this. Probably a couple of times...

I go back a couple of years earlier as we also surrendered Pick 5 in 1999 after the Jeff White poaching stuff...

It really is the fundamental reason why we are in the wilderness and while I hope we get a PP as it helps us get back to civilisation - we can do it. But it will take so very special drafting and a success rate of top 30 picks close to 100%.

The last couple of years have looked promising, but it is too early to tell.

We simply can't take a wrong turn in the next few Octobers and Novembers.

Spot on 'rpfc', in particular we can't afford any mistakes the next few years.

Spot on 'rpfc', in particular we can't afford any mistakes the next few years.

key to me - is stability

stability with admin

stability with coaching

My two concerns is

Not enough good senior players to protect, mentor and teach the kids

Not enough good senior players meaning juniors have to play out of their skin consistently to get a game.

Have a look at the Hawks for instance - how many first year players are getting a gig with them ?