He didn't get done in by Drew Petrie. In the few 50-50 contests he had, he competed well. The issue was the lack of midfield/forward pressure we provided, which was very reminiscent of last years efforts. Was very disappointing all round.

  On 22/06/2014 at 11:48, deeflog said:

I was going to start the same topic but change the name to Colin Garland.

Then your profile name is true.

Spangher is better player ATM than Tom Mac and he can't get a regular game at Hawks and probably goes when Gibson comes back.

In fairness to Tom Mac, he is surrounded by butchers down in that back line. Imagine how much better he would be if he could offload to Birchall, Burgoyne, Hodge etc rather than Grimes, Howe, McKenzie etc.

The team overall fell short significantly today and it really exposed the weaknesses of some of our younger and/or less 'complete' players.

I've still got quite a bit of belief in Tom McDonald's future, as I do in Garland and Grimes.

Won't declare them to be future stars, but I can see all three being the 200-game stalwart types. And I think those types are very valuable in the current inflationary environment, when you see player salaries doubling and doubling again as you get into the A-graders and then the 'champions'.

  On 22/06/2014 at 12:41, wattsjurrahdunne said:

Spangher is better player ATM than Tom Mac and he can't get a regular game at Hawks and probably goes when Gibson comes back.

In fairness to Tom Mac, he is surrounded by butchers down in that back line. Imagine how much better he would be if he could offload to Birchall, Burgoyne, Hodge etc rather than Grimes, Howe, McKenzie etc.

No.

Just no.

Wow. I didn't think Tommy was our worst today. In fact, I can't remember him making an error by foot. I remember half a dozen great spoils and a little bit of run. The delivery to the North forwards was the best I've seen us face this year. Gave our defenders often no chance.

I'd generally agree though that his decision making and kicking is a real impediment, to not only the team, but himself.

Yes GG Drew Petrie. Yoss, he was beaten by Drew tonight. Can't talk toward TMacs forward pressure as I watched on TV but I'll check it out at Etihad next week. I do agree he needs to clean up his disposal but he's not the only one down back.

  On 22/06/2014 at 12:48, AdamFarr said:

Wow. I didn't think Tommy was our worst today. In fact, I can't remember him making an error by foot. I remember half a dozen great spoils and a little bit of run. The delivery to the North forwards was the best I've seen us face this year. Gave our defenders often no chance.

I'd generally agree though that his decision making and kicking is a real impediment, to not only the team, but himself.

Half of his long kicks to forwards were shanks. Even if you are bombing it long you should kick it long, with some height and to the forwards/rucks preferred side which is usually the boundary side. Instead he was kicking it and it was landing short and to the defenders side.

He certainly wasn't our worst. This thread isn't about him being our worst. It's about me not seeing improvement or as much potential in him.

I can't help but think we thought Al Nicholson was the future of our backline and player him year after year until we finally had to do something about it. My concern is that McDonald is going to be an Al Nicholson. You can win games with him. You might even win a final. But unless he gets a whole lot smarter you wont win big finals with him.

  On 22/06/2014 at 12:48, STN91 said:

Yes GG Drew Petrie. Yoss, he was beaten by Drew tonight. Can't talk toward TMacs forward pressure as I watched on TV but I'll check it out at Etihad next week. I do agree he needs to clean up his disposal but he's not the only one down back.

In case you haven't notice Petrie is on his last legs. He's pretty much done and hasn't played well all season.

  On 22/06/2014 at 11:48, Machsy said:

Still pretty young too.

I'm happy to give him time.

Haha.

Mate, you give everyone time.

Not saying that McDonald should get the flick but jeez you have time for any individual who dons the jumper it seems.

His kicking, slow decision making and brain fades are seriously concerning for a bloke playing at this level.

That goes for most of our backling. Do people believe time will change these things?

Roos has drilled into players the need to compete and none of us can question the majority of the team's 'efforts' at that.

But holy [censored], we have some serious troubles with our lack of skill and decision making.

Major concerns.

  On 22/06/2014 at 12:48, AdamFarr said:

Wow. I didn't think Tommy was our worst today. In fact, I can't remember him making an error by foot. I remember half a dozen great spoils and a little bit of run. The delivery to the North forwards was the best I've seen us face this year. Gave our defenders often no chance.

I'd generally agree though that his decision making and kicking is a real impediment, to not only the team, but himself.

Yes.

It's called players being able to kick adequately at the level they're playing at.

Hardly surprising.

Only at the MFC.

We have a team pretty much full of players who consistently miss targets and take way too long to move the ball forward.

Anyone reckon James Sellar was actually quite handy when he played in defense for us?

Tom McDonald is not a long-term solution to play as a KPD.

The reason for this is because 1) his disposal is sh!thouse and 2) his decision making is even worse.

People try and create excuses for him saying that he will improve with time and experience. However i disagree. To become a quality player (or even just a player you can rely on) they need to display at least some natural ability when it comes to skills and decision-making. McDonald has neither.

When you are working with 0 you end up with 0. If a club can improve a player by 'X' %, 'X' % of zero is still zero.

McDonald is more of a 3rd option (not tall) when it comes to getting the ball out of the back-line, in that he is neither the first or second choice to have the ball in hand.

Luckily Dunn has come in this year and held up one of these positions. But we are still a player or tall KPD short without Frawley (i see Garland as a third tall defender).

Should Frawley move on come end of year, it is imperative we bring in a quality tall defender by way of trade or the draft. That leaves the other early pick to bring in another young mid via the draft or trade period. Dream scenario would be bringing in one of Shiel or Coniglio with the compo pick, and Durdin falling through to our first rounder (but that's even more of as pipe dream than landing Roos).

Long story short, i wouldn't be relying on McDonald to be the cornerstone of our defence.

Edited June 22, 201410 yr by Demon Disciple

  On 22/06/2014 at 12:41, wattsjurrahdunne said:

Spangher is better player ATM than Tom Mac and he can't get a regular game at Hawks and probably goes when Gibson comes back.

In fairness to Tom Mac, he is surrounded by butchers down in that back line. Imagine how much better he would be if he could offload to Birchall, Burgoyne, Hodge etc rather than Grimes, Howe, McKenzie etc.

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHA

no he is not.

Not even close.

Tom Mac is close to the best young key defenders in the league in my opinion.

I do agree, that he can be very frustrating. But get real here.

Born: September 18, 1992 (age 21)

Edited June 22, 201410 yr by The Song Formerly Known As

  On 22/06/2014 at 13:08, dazzledavey36 said:

Anyone reckon James Sellar was actually quite handy when he played in defense for us?

probably would have flourished under roos. Always thought he had more skill than pedo.

Poor bastard.

Should be easier on everyone when Hogan finally gets a gig so Frawley can go back to where he should be and make the match-ups better for everybody.

  On 22/06/2014 at 13:14, The Song Formerly Known As said:

Born: September 18, 1992 (age 21)

Cool fact.

  On 22/06/2014 at 13:08, dazzledavey36 said:

Anyone reckon James Sellar was actually quite handy when he played in defense for us?

Yes but way way too slow. Good kick, really nice size, good intercept mark. But Pedo has pace especially since he's got his fitness up. Sellar always lacked a yard I thought.

My answer to the McDonald problem is Pedersen by the way. If Gawn steps up and we get some more mature and fitter forward flankers then I'd put Pedersen down back. He's got run and faith in his kicking.

Spangher in the best players once again for Hawks on Saturday in front of 70,000 people. Endurance is as good as Tom's, he is a much better kick and doesn't perform the clangers every single week.

FCS we've won 10 games in 3 years, we're absolutely shite so please don't defend them blindly.

  On 22/06/2014 at 13:21, stevethemanjordan said:

Cool fact.

thanks pal, didn't expect a pissant such as yourself to be able to decipher a deeper meaning.

Carry on treading water on the surface little one, me and a few others are going diving for treasure.

  On 22/06/2014 at 13:22, Georgiou R.R. Martin said:

Yes but way way too slow. Good kick, really nice size, good intercept mark. But Pedo has pace especially since he's got his fitness up. Sellar always lacked a yard I thought.

My answer to the McDonald problem is Pedersen by the way. If Gawn steps up and we get some more mature and fitter forward flankers then I'd put Pedersen down back. He's got run and faith in his kicking.

So Gawn is your answer to Pederson being the answer to McDonald then?

  On 22/06/2014 at 13:32, The Song Formerly Known As said:

thanks pal, didn't expect a pissant such as yourself to be able to decipher a deeper meaning.

Carry on treading water on the surface little one, me and a few others are going diving for treasure.

Oh I deciphered it old mate. But I can't say I necessarily agree with it.

Kicking ability and decision making are not things that can be EASILY changed once you reach AFL level.

Tommy Mac defends admirably and has a real knack for spoiling and contesting well, but as I keep saying...

Within the AFL, you need players that display a number of attributes at the elite level and tonight was yet further evidence that we are battlers of the highest order.

Skill level and decision making change marginally with confidence and momentum. Not monumentally.

We need to hit the draft hard and trade well again to get rid of the [censored] that is still on our list.

  On 22/06/2014 at 13:55, stevethemanjordan said:

Oh I deciphered it old mate. But I can't say I necessarily agree with it.

Kicking ability and decision making are not things that can be EASILY changed once you reach AFL level.

Tommy Mac defends admirably and has a real knack for spoiling and contesting well, but as I keep saying...

Within the AFL, you need players that display a number of attributes at the elite level and tonight was yet further evidence that we are battlers of the highest order.

Skill level and decision making change marginally with confidence and momentum. Not monumentally.

We need to hit the draft hard and trade well again to get rid of the [censored] that is still on our list.

May i direct you to this thread, my old chum:

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/36752-kicking-handballing-and-catching/

  On 22/06/2014 at 12:58, Georgiou R.R. Martin said:

Half of his long kicks to forwards were shanks. Even if you are bombing it long you should kick it long, with some height and to the forwards/rucks preferred side which is usually the boundary side. Instead he was kicking it and it was landing short and to the defenders side.

He certainly wasn't our worst. This thread isn't about him being our worst. It's about me not seeing improvement or as much potential in him.

I can't help but think we thought Al Nicholson was the future of our backline and player him year after year until we finally had to do something about it. My concern is that McDonald is going to be an Al Nicholson. You can win games with him. You might even win a final. But unless he gets a whole lot smarter you wont win big finals with him.

Fair enough. I must admit, I have very low expectations of Tommy Mac's kicking. As long as he's not kicking it directly to the opposition in our defensive 50, I tend to view it as a win.

I agree that we'll never win finals with players with ordinary decision making. Improve the decision making and you'll find the errors will be minimised. He's an excellent defender and 21, so I'm happy to give him another two years to improve that kicking. I'd offer him a three year contract though.

  On 22/06/2014 at 13:24, wattsjurrahdunne said:

Spangher in the best players once again for Hawks on Saturday in front of 70,000 people. Endurance is as good as Tom's, he is a much better kick and doesn't perform the clangers every single week.

FCS we've won 10 games in 3 years, we're absolutely shite so please don't defend them blindly.

Spangher is also 27 and at his third club. He's played 41 games of footy in 8 years of being on a list, unbroken. The football world has shown him a patience almost unprecedented, and he finally seems to have arrived.

Tom McDonald is 21, and has already played 52 games, often holding his own in one of the most under siege defences of all time. Yet plenty here are ready to burn him at the stake.