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Training - Thursday 24th April, 2014

Alcho Dee
Alcho Dee
in Melbourne Demons

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  On 24/04/2014 at 03:26, JackVineyForPresident said:

You're right though, he needs to lift. But im still conceding that it's only been one really bad match for the year, and that is acceptable, it happens.

It may happen but it isn't acceptable.

Getting dropped isn't the end of the world. I honestly think that some fans see a long term injury in a better light for a players career than being dropped.

Players lose form, they lose desire, they get dropped, they change roles, they lift after a spray, they get inspired by a teammate, et al.

I hope he bounces back because he was having a promising start to 2014.

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      On 24/04/2014 at 03:35, Django said:

    If I drew you a graph for his season so far, it may spike at the GWS game but the clear trend would be that he has been in decline since the start of the year. I was really impressed with his game in round 1 but should have suspected that he would not hold that sort of form.

    Yes, if you drew me a graph, based on YOUR opinion. I am sure you are also guilty or bashing him since he came to the club.

    While i thought his efforts on sunday were absolutely shocking, the rest of his games in my opinion have been fine-good. I am not sure what you were expecting, a new position, no forward line. 25 possessions, 2 goals, 10 marks and 10 tackles?

    If you take sunday out of the equation, his season has been fine. Certainly not worthy of being dropped.

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      On 24/04/2014 at 02:53, old dee said:

    Why?

    The worst player last week after very ordinary games since round 1

    I don't think he was the worst, but very likely had the largest gap between what he is capable of and actual output. If one was picking the team purely on output he would not be dropped before Terlich or Jetta.

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      On 24/04/2014 at 03:40, JackVineyForPresident said:

    Yes, if you drew me a graph, based on YOUR opinion. I am sure you are also guilty or bashing him since he came to the club.

    While i thought his efforts on sunday were absolutely shocking, the rest of his games in my opinion have been fine-good. I am not sure what you were expecting, a new position, no forward line. 25 possessions, 2 goals, 10 marks and 10 tackles?

    If you take sunday out of the equation, his season has been fine. Certainly not worthy of being dropped.

    Of course it's my opinion but there are statistics that back up my opinion that he has been in steady decline.

    His other games have not been good. We've all seen what Watts can do when he applies himself, which is why it makes me so disappointed seeing him play laconically and with no real hunger. I don't want to accept mediocrity from him, which you seem to be fine with, because he can do so much better.

    He needs to lift and Roos needs to send him a message, whether by dropping him or by some other means.

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      On 24/04/2014 at 03:54, Django said:

    Of course it's my opinion but there are statistics that back up my opinion that he has been in steady decline.

    His other games have not been good. We've all seen what Watts can do when he applies himself, which is why it makes me so disappointed seeing him play laconically and with no real hunger. I don't want to accept mediocrity from him, which you seem to be fine with, because he can do so much better.

    He needs to lift and Roos needs to send him a message, whether by dropping him or by some other means.

    I would trade tomorrow for a good deal.

    This is his sixth year on the list. this is as good as it gets

    What you see is what you get.

    Every year we all make excuses for him.

    I have run out the clock is ticking

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      On 24/04/2014 at 03:35, Django said:

    If I drew you a graph for his season so far, it may spike at the GWS game but the clear trend would be that he has been in decline since the start of the year. I was really impressed with his game in round 1 but should have suspected that he would not hold that sort of form.

    Statistically I think the whole team has gone backwards in terms of possessions etc since round one, and what does that actually mean if anything at all?

    Take a look at Vince and Tyson's stats... statistically speaking they have both gone backwards too, it's easy to use statistics to justify anything... in fact 89.4% of people use statistics incorrectly!! :)

    Watts had a poor game and whilst I was not there it does sound like his application to the game was sadly lacking. But if some people on these boards actually took the time (and had the stomach :wacko: ) to look at Watts in some of the replays of games, you would see that he is often blamed of shirking a contest when in fact I think he is attempting to receive the ball on the outside as he is instructed to do and others are supposed to feed it to him. Coupled with a fairly ordinary tackling technique either which doesn't help.

    If he is dropped then so be it, Roos obviously would do this so he can work on aspects of his game in the VFL,... but worse contributors to the team can be found up easily up until last week where he was definitely poor. That said he is still our best disposal of the ball, gives us flexibility in how we structure the team, and our guys need to look for him on the outside to take advantage of his kicking skills.

    If the rumours of Salem playing are true, it will be interested to see who does in fact make way. I think we are bringing him in too soon, but I guess we at least have someone with disposal skills comparable to Watts...

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      On 24/04/2014 at 01:04, Dees13 said:

    Rucks - Gawn Jamar King Fitzy and Pedersen doing ruck stuff

    A group doing some 4 on 4, seems to be the Casey bunch? (Garland Strauss Riley Harmes Hunt Barry Blease and a bloke wearing no.50?

    Tapscott Toumpas Michie Georgiou doing rehab stuff

    Grimes Dawes Frawley doing their own thing

    Everyone else (yes including Salem) doing some keepings off in main part of ground

    I think that is that Kiwi international rookie isn't it? Westrupp or something like that?

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    This is me, I was at training, would not be surprised at all if Salem debuts, had a chat to him afterwards about the Premier League and other things haha

    All I could get about Spencer from anybody was he was inside training, would be surprised if he is hamed

    Spoke to a couple of the 'wounded'

    Kent is still a week away, Michie 2 weeks (has a plate in his jaw, and lost a wisdom tooth

    Riley is now on unrestricted game time, would not like to be playing against him this week, wants to get his name in the frame for the Adelaide game, asked him if he really lkes hurting opponents legally, you can guess the answer

    Nev Jetta's feedback was he had played the role he was instructed to play

    Bumped into Jesse Hogan on Swan St before training, getting frustrated, can't seem to shake it off when ramping up the training, Club is looking at all avenues to find the exact problem, told him to keep his chin up and he gave me a thumbs up

    For all the Watts fans out there, he did extra tackling drills and got knocked around quite a bit

    Luke Tapscott is finally ready to play, had a laugh about how normally he can't get through pre season, was overjoyed when he did nearly the whole of it and thinks he jinxed himself, thinks he might carry a lucky stone in his sock.

    And if he is picked for all the other haters it will be Roh Bail's 50th game

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      On 24/04/2014 at 03:36, rpfc said:

    It may happen but it isn't acceptable.

    Getting dropped isn't the end of the world. I honestly think that some fans see a long term injury in a better light for a players career than being dropped.

    Players lose form, they lose desire, they get dropped, they change roles, they lift after a spray, they get inspired by a teammate, et al.

    I hope he bounces back because he was having a promising start to 2014.

    That probably works for most players. Do you think that would work for Jack? I am of the opinion that dropping him isn't the way to motivate him, certainly not yet anyway.

    His application was very poor on Sunday but his other games haven't had any standout issues.

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      On 24/04/2014 at 03:54, Django said:

    Of course it's my opinion but there are statistics that back up my opinion that he has been in steady decline.

    His other games have not been good. We've all seen what Watts can do when he applies himself, which is why it makes me so disappointed seeing him play laconically and with no real hunger. I don't want to accept mediocrity from him, which you seem to be fine with, because he can do so much better.

    He needs to lift and Roos needs to send him a message, whether by dropping him or by some other means.

    They have been a steady decline, but that does not mean a thing. He changed his position from round 1 onwards, considering we literally had no forward line.

    I have never said i am fine with with accepting mediocrity. But i can accept one bad game.

    Please tell me what you're expecting from him, "statistically" because that all you seem to be focusing on .. ?

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      On 24/04/2014 at 03:57, old dee said:

    I would trade tomorrow for a good deal.

    This is his sixth year on the list. this is as good as it gets

    What you see is what you get.

    Every year we all make excuses for him.

    I have run out the clock is ticking

    Personally think thats a crock OD. 6 years yes, but I don't think that his time under Neeld and possibly Bailey was well managed, I think Roos needs more than one pre season to get Watts into the shape that he needs to be. I have no doubt you will come back that I am just making excuses, but other than Jones none of our list has shown much... if any significant development in the last 3-4 years.

    Goddard was slagged off for the first 5-6 years for being soft and a wasted talent, he did eventually come good, Watts is similar to Goddard to me in this sense, and I think Watts still has several years of improvement in him. He is still a better player than those like NicNat, Kruezer and co..., that and the fact that he has shown the club loyalty and re-signed when he was being heavily courted last year means something to me also.

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      On 24/04/2014 at 04:06, JackVineyForPresident said:

    They have been a steady decline, but that does not mean a thing. He changed his position from round 1 onwards, considering we literally had no forward line.

    I have never said i am fine with with accepting mediocrity. But i can accept one bad game.

    Please tell me what you're expecting from him, "statistically" because that all you seem to be focusing on .. ?

    I'm expecting him to lift his work rate and application, as I mentioned earlier so it's not all about statistics.

    If he works harder in the contest, runs harder, presents harder, it is more likely that he will get more of the ball, take more marks and therefore have more disposals.

    You can see when watching him that he doesn't run hard enough, doesn't attack the contest and definitely plays well within himself. If he changes this and plays like a maniac this week and his disposal count doesn't lift, I won't mind because at least I can then see that he is playing with some kind of effort.

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      On 24/04/2014 at 03:57, old dee said:

    I would trade tomorrow for a good deal.

    This is his sixth year on the list. this is as good as it gets

    What you see is what you get.

    Every year we all make excuses for him.

    I have run out the clock is ticking

    I'd wait until he's been under Roos for a good part of a season before saying any of that.

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      On 24/04/2014 at 04:08, Ouch! said:

    Personally think thats a crock OD. 6 years yes, but I don't think that his time under Neeld and possibly Bailey was well managed, I think Roos needs more than one pre season to get Watts into the shape that he needs to be. I have no doubt you will come back that I am just making excuses, but other than Jones none of our list has shown much... if any significant development in the last 3-4 years.

    Goddard was slagged off for the first 5-6 years for being soft and a wasted talent, he did eventually come good, Watts is similar to Goddard to me in this sense, and I think Watts still has several years of improvement in him. He is still a better player than those like NicNat, Kruezer and co..., that and the fact that he has shown the club loyalty and re-signed when he was being heavily courted last year means something to me also.

    You can think it Ouch after all we are only giving our opinions.

    There are 16 games to go I hope you are correct but I am not holding my breath.

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      On 24/04/2014 at 03:57, old dee said:

    I would trade tomorrow for a good deal.

    This is his sixth year on the list. this is as good as it gets

    What you see is what you get.

    Every year we all make excuses for him.

    I have run out the clock is ticking

    The clock got wound back three years over the summer, OD.

    And, once again, 'Yay, we have Paul Roos as coach! Everyone gets a clean slate... except for the players I don't like/rate.'

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      On 24/04/2014 at 04:15, old dee said:

    You can think it Ouch after all we are only giving our opinions.

    There are 16 games to go I hope you are correct but I am not holding my breath.

    Certainly hope not OD!

    16 weeks with you holding your breath might be fatal!

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      On 24/04/2014 at 02:55, stevethemanjordan said:

    Announced where and by whom?

    After training the group got together and something was announced that got a big cheer from the group and them everyone proceeded to pat Salem on the back and high five him....Salem then went over to say hi to a friend/member of family who was next to me and kept saying 'can't believe it, it's f*****'

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      On 24/04/2014 at 04:20, Dees13 said:

    After training the group got together and something was announced that got a big cheer from the group and them everyone proceeded to pat Salem on the back and high five him....Salem then went over to say hi to a friend/member of family who was next to me and kept saying 'can't believe it, it's f*****'

    He obviously feels his development would be harmed if he plays...

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      On 24/04/2014 at 04:13, Django said:

    I'm expecting him to lift his work rate and application, as I mentioned earlier so it's not all about statistics.

    If he works harder in the contest, runs harder, presents harder, it is more likely that he will get more of the ball, take more marks and therefore have more disposals.

    You can see when watching him that he doesn't run hard enough, doesn't attack the contest and definitely plays well within himself. If he changes this and plays like a maniac this week and his disposal count doesn't lift, I won't mind because at least I can then see that he is playing with some kind of effort.

    This post should be pinned at the top of the board.

    Spot on.

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      On 24/04/2014 at 04:20, Dees13 said:

    After training the group got together and something was announced that got a big cheer from the group and them everyone proceeded to pat Salem on the back and high five him....Salem then went over to say hi to a friend/member of family who was next to me and kept saying 'can't believe it, it's f*****'

    Maybe he just got engaged?

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      On 24/04/2014 at 03:59, Satyriconhome said:
    ...

    Bumped into Jesse Hogan on Swan St before training, getting frustrated, can't seem to shake it off when ramping up the training, Club is looking at all avenues to find the exact problem, told him to keep his chin up and he gave me a thumbs up

    ....

    Pity. <irony> Obvious those secretive buffoons on the medical staff are spinning him a line to cover their incompetence. </irony>

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      On 24/04/2014 at 04:18, rpfc said:

    The clock got wound back three years over the summer, OD.

    And, once again, 'Yay, we have Paul Roos as coach! Everyone gets a clean slate... except for the players I don't like/rate.'

    That may well be rpfc but the look is very familiar

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      On 24/04/2014 at 03:59, The Flying Hellfish said:

    I think that is that Kiwi international rookie isn't it? Westrupp or something like that?

    Ah of course, good call, they were calling him Westy

    I might have been the only one to spot him go off about 20 min into training to have a pee on a tree

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      On 24/04/2014 at 05:00, Dees13 said:

    Ah of course, good call, they were calling him Westy

    I might have been the only one to spot him go off about 20 min into training to have a pee on a tree

    To quote Greg Champion - You can get arrested for that - and so you should (stalking not peeing)

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      On 24/04/2014 at 03:59, Ouch! said:

    If the rumours of Salem playing are true, it will be interested to see who does in fact make way. I think we are bringing him in too soon, but I guess we at least have someone with disposal skills comparable to Watts...

    I am interested in why you think we are bringing him in too soon.

    Robert Shaw his former coach said he is a tough kid, who will handle himself in the AFL. He is not a skinny runt. He is not the first young player to be blooded in the AFL this year. Several of those are doing very well. Our recruiters thought, as does a mate of mine, who has seen him play a lot, that he will be a very good AFL player. He has played at Casey with at least 1 BOG against men. His Coaches have now seen him in action and training.

    I don't know if we are bringing him in too soon, I just wonder why you think that. When do you think the right time would be?

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