Post match discussion

[jumbo returns 6,738]

The dust has settled for a long time.

You won't beat any team with half a dozen NQRs on the park.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,358]

We were 0 and 5 last season and getting belted by anywhere between 50-150 points.

This season we are 1 and 4 with only 1 belting but being in the other 4 matches for longer and obviously winning one.

That's an improvement no matter which way u spin it or in what language u say it

We had this discussion last week. Win or loose we need to constructively critique the list. After yesterday's performance we have players actively asking to be delisted/traded and I thank them for that .

[jazza 1,323]

Bunch of idiots here spewing the same old rhetoric about Watts and his lack of 'hardness'.

It shows your ignorance more than anything else. For some reason you think he's capable of attacking the footy like Jones/Viney, yet still want him to have the skills of a player like Pendlebury.

You get one or the other in the majority of players. There aren't many out there with both skillsets except for players like Ablett. He's an outside player.

Pull your heads in. He had one bad game and you're calling for him to be delisted. Pathetic.

outside runners who can deliver the ball continually get 20 possies even in poor teams.

bob murphy

giansierracusa.

craig bradley.

heath shaw/t hunt,dont pick up opponents but get 20 possies.

many outside runners do this,JW is the puppy that all the kids love and looks great in photos and all that bs.

but he is forever chitting and pi55ing on the carpet,

PR,will sort this out,of that im very confident.

btw in the colac league we have about 30 blokes who can deliver the ball very well.when they are in space .its not astronaut stuff.

Edited April 20, 2014 by jazza

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,358]

outside runners who can deliver the ball continually get 20 possies even in poor teams.

bob murphy

giansierracusa.

craig bradley.

heath shaw/t hunt,dont pick up opponents but get 20 possies.

many outside runners do this,JW is the puppy that all the kids love and looks great in photos and all that bs.

but he is forever chitting and pi55ing on the carpet,

PR,will sort this out,of that im very confident.

btw in the colac league we have about 30 blokes who can deliver the ball very well.when they are in space .its not astronaut stuff.

Not sure if Seraph has resurfaced since positing that drivel yesterday.

[Melb16 491]

My "tsunami of support" consisted of:

- Saying that if he is left alone then he is a very damaging user of the footy,

- Saying that his running capacity has improved since he arrived at the club.

- ...................

I don't see how either of these are in any way controversial. It's just the fact that I said these things after he had a bad game, rather than a good game, that blinds people to what I actually said.

The problem with having a considered and balanced opinion, especially in the wake of a loss, is that other's rage will lead them to misinterperate it.

Agree with your points, especially the 'knowing how' in relation to work rate. I wonder if this also the case for him with the physical stuff. There's always been a lack of 'want' in Jack's game and it's the coaches job to find out why and rectify it. For those that think stringing him up in the city centre for 100 lashes is the answer, it isn't, Neeld tried that and it didn't work. Hopefully there is another way.

[What 18,810]

Looking forward to mid season and beyond when players like Hogan, Garland, Salem, Toumpas, Gawn etc etc have come in to replace the dead wood

[jumbo returns 6,738]

The problem with having a considered and balanced opinion, especially in the wake of a loss, is that other's rage will lead them to misinterperate it.

Agree with your points, especially the 'knowing how' in relation to work rate. I wonder if this also the case for him with the physical stuff. There's always been a lack of 'want' in Jack's game and it's the coaches job to find out why and rectify it. For those that think stringing him up in the city centre for 100 lashes is the answer, it isn't, Neeld tried that and it didn't work. Hopefully there is another way.

Great post.

JW will never be a physical, contact player.

Yesterday he had a shocker, but his previous couple of weeks were good.

In the Carlton game, he scythed through a congested area with ease and delivered a 40m pass to Dawes (I think). Unbelievable vision and time.

PR is still trying to work him out. JW is still trying to work out PR. Axing him would not be a good idea.

I have faith in the coach.

[Guest]

A lack of run all game killed Melbourne.

You could hear the frustration in the stands as players looked up with the ball and saw 17 flat-footed teammates.

There was no movement, none.

This contributed heavily to Melbourne taking so long to dispose of the ball.

There appears to be more defensive run these days however.you are right. Run and spread when we have the pill is pretty average. Dawes and Chip often give 80 meter leads but besides that not so much.

[Guest]

The problem with having a considered and balanced opinion, especially in the wake of a loss, is that other's rage will lead them to misinterperate it.

Agree with your points, especially the 'knowing how' in relation to work rate. I wonder if this also the case for him with the physical stuff. There's always been a lack of 'want' in Jack's game and it's the coaches job to find out why and rectify it. For those that think stringing him up in the city centre for 100 lashes is the answer, it isn't, Neeld tried that and it didn't work. Hopefully there is another way.

One of the best posts I have read on here in quite a while.

You are dead right. While Jack does need to harden up and get more competitive, the answer in doing so mightn't be the suburban footy/1980's VFL way of giving a tongue lashing. I remember reading, in of all places Max Walker's biography, of how Norm Smith got some form out of him. One night he was called to Norm's office, who was sitting on a pile of footy jumpers gently tossing a footy from hand to hand, Maxy had heard of his propensity for fearful sprays and thought his time had come. Norm then simply asked him if he wanted to play seniors on the weekend and took him around for dinner at his home. Checker Hughes after that incident then summed up the coaching staff's opinion on Max 'You aren't a good player or a bad player. You are a confidence player. Think about that son.' Maxy then went on to play a pretty decent game against the Roos the next week.

While Big Max wasn't much of a footballer (we knew where his talents lie; cricket and playing the Wired World of Sports theme on a handkerchief), it does show how sometime the carrot does work besides the stick.

That being said, the stick may need to come out at some stage with Jack. As for now, he was probably one of the players in mind when Roos said the playing list needed a cuddle.

[Guest]

Thought Georgiou was our best back. Certainly the most reliable. I dreaded every time Tommy Mac, Terlich or Grimes got the ball and expected a turn over.

Some of the clangers Terlo performs make me cringe. He did kick a nice goal in the fourth that got us right in it but that out of bounds on the full in the first was a shocker.

I hope he is working on his kicking at training

[DeeZee 7,363]

As bad as Watts was he has still been better than Tyson or Vince have the last two weeks, Jordie was also terrible yesterday,so you cant really blame our woes on him, its a collective effort.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,358]

As bad as Watts was he has still been better than Tyson or Vince have the last two weeks, Jordie was also terrible yesterday,so you cant really blame our woes on him, its a collective effort.

Dom Tyson has played a whopping 18 games. Watts has played 78. Tyson has shown some great signs but in reality this will hopefully be his first full year. Regardless whether you buy into the crap that he has failed to get over his debut game or the rest of the fiction, he is a footballer as has the ability to think for himself and stand up for himself. I have seen him this year win the hard ball and speed away from the pack and deliver a beautiful kick, but it has to be on his terms. Someone threw up Pendles as a player similar to Watts, well Pendles wins his own ball at times, continually racks up effective tackles and doesn't allow himself to be man handled. Watts needs to have his training modified to include boxing with at least one sparing session a week, fail this trade him. Edited April 21, 2014 by Al's Demons

[jnrmac 20,055]

Great post.

JW will never be a physical, contact player.

Yesterday he had a shocker, but his previous couple of weeks were good.

In the Carlton game, he scythed through a congested area with ease and delivered a 40m pass to Dawes (I think). Unbelievable vision and time.

PR is still trying to work him out. JW is still trying to work out PR. Axing him would not be a good idea.

I have faith in the coach.

His weak efforts yesterday are worthy of being dropped. He showed incredible lack of interest. There is no possible defence of his game,

Now I back the coach to deal with that. They are not stupid. They see it too. How they deal with it is really the key.

We have seen 5yrs of it and our patience is exhausted. Maybe the new coaching panel still have reserves of patience. We will see.

[titan_uranus 24,974]

Jetta would have been smart. Watts would have been making a statement.

He made a lot of comments alluding to the fact that turnovers don't bother him as much as players who just don't put in the effort. I'm getting a better understanding of Roos' ethos and decisionmaking every week. He persists with Terlich because, despite the shonky turnovers, there's always effort.

I've been saying the same thing about our list. I'd rather have a team of less skilled but harder working players, than one filled with skilled players that amble around with their head in the clouds. Terlich and Pederson still get games based on that mantra.

I don't think Watts ever was going to be subbed off, it would have just made the focus all on him again, and that's the last thing he or the club needs.

As for the skill v hard working thing, yes, we'd all love to know we have 22 players who are putting their head over the ball, but the reality is we will never be a decent side whilst we carry so many unskilled players.

You can have a Terlich, but you can't have a side with Terlich, McKenzie, Jetta, Georgiou, Bail, Spencer, Grimes (kicking-wise, anyway) and McDonald (kicking). That's the problem, and we cannot progress until either these players improve their disposal, or we upgrade them to players who are skilled.

Anyone who defends Watts' game but watched it on TV needs to understand that they would have missed 90% of his soft, lazy and weak efforts around the ground.

Most of if happened off the ball so unless you were at the game, please understand this.

Who has defended Watts' game?

We were 0 and 5 last season and getting belted by anywhere between 50-150 points.

This season we are 1 and 4 with only 1 belting but being in the other 4 matches for longer and obviously winning one.

That's an improvement no matter which way u spin it or in what language u say it

We actually won in Round 4 like we did this year and were 1-4.

Your point is valid though, the four losses this year have been by 17, 93, 32 and 8, with the 32 blowing out in the fourth after we trailed by just one point. Last year the four losses were 79, 148, 94 and 28.

The dust has settled for a long time.

You won't beat any team with half a dozen NQRs on the park.

Except Carlton.

Lol Carlton.

[Arrow 1,257]

Positives and Negatives a plenty for yesterday's game.

I'll get the bad out of the way.

It beggars belief that Spencer can play so well against Warnock, 210 cm and a solid unit, than get beaten comprehensively by a stick figure in Nicholls.

1 mark in perfect football conditions.. I love Jake's attitude but it's not good enough to turn up once every few weeks.

Evans offered nothing as a sub. Georgiou for the first time was soundly beaten.
I don't know for sure but I'm led to believe Terlich was on Brandon Matera who ran rings around him. He's an average footballer who was made to look brilliant with the weak defending he was up against. I'm very keen on Dean having a few weeks to work on his defensive mechanics at Casey, before bringing him back in to test at AFL level.

Watts was average and Tyson looked burnt out. A week off training might give him the energy boost he needs. Still important.

If I notice one thing about Dom it's that he regularly shows little awareness. I like that he tries to play on after a mark but far too often it's with someone already on his back.

Just a bit of poise is the difference between him being an accumulator and an A-grade midfielder.

Positives:

Melbourne of old would've lost that game by 50 points. It's impressive to see them continue to go from 19 points down back to 13 in the 4th quarter, and continue to put pressure on. Sadly we just didn't have the finesse to put them to the sword.

Dawes is showing his worth, and god Frawley is by far our second best player. I was questioning his ability in the backline for the last 12 months, but he's clearly enjoying his football and whether he stays or goes I'll respect James for always giving his all for the Dees.

Nathan Jones is a bloody gun. I love the guy. He moves on a dime and his ability to skip in between players is elite.

Bernie Vince was off, his disposal wasn't his normal self but he still had 22 touches. We'd have killed for that last year!
Jack Viney was great, he's a clearance machine. At one point he won a clearance over Ablett just by going low and wanting the footy more.

I feel like Roos' gameplan is starting to take place with the players but there's so many bit players who need to do more. Obviously I don't want all of these gone this week but the following aren't deserving of AFL football at THIS point in time: Bail, Evans, Spencer, Terlich, Jetta. McKenzie, M Jones and Pederson have week reprieves after previous good weeks but also need monitoring.

[jumbo returns 6,738]

Except Carlton.

Lol Carlton.

They beat the Doggies.

I rate Bullies over Tiges...

[TGR 1,367]

Thought that we just couldn't get it out of D50 with any confidence or purpose. Roos' move to make Howe the target out of D50 was a good one. Our outlet kick needs to be to a mobile and contested marking option; and Howe fit that bill. Watts need to suggest "kick it to me" as well.

Dawes does a heap of running off the ball. Got to persist with JKH, as he is lively and doesn't squib it either (3rd Q contest CHB).

How Jetta gets a gig ahead of Blease is a big concern for Blease.

[DemonOX 8,783]

Why the hell did Pedo start forward and dunny back?

They have been doing well in there roles last wk why change it now especially when it wasn't working?

[Melb16 491]

His weak efforts yesterday are worthy of being dropped. He showed incredible lack of interest. There is no possible defence of his game,

Now I back the coach to deal with that. They are not stupid. They see it too. How they deal with it is really the key.

We have seen 5yrs of it and our patience is exhausted. Maybe the new coaching panel still have reserves of patience. We will see.

Don't think people are necessarily defending his game. The key is how to fix it.

He may well be dropped but I don't think he will be as I don't see it getting the response it would for most players. I just don't see him getting hurt enough by it and coming back with an attitude of trying to prove people wrong.

Seemed to play forward a lot more yesterday when he really should be on the wing when we have key forwards on the park. He is our best player by foot so we need more than 4 kicks from him.

[jumbo returns 6,738]

Why the hell did Pedo start forward and dunny back?

They have been doing well in there roles last wk why change it now especially when it wasn't working?

Good question - dunno.

The whole team may have been flat.

Frustrating loss.

[titan_uranus 24,974]

Why the hell did Pedo start forward and dunny back?

They have been doing well in there roles last wk why change it now especially when it wasn't working?

I assume it's because we wanted to ruck him for longer than we did last week, to give Spencer a longer breather. The longer he needs to spend out of the backline, the harder it is to use him there. As second ruck it's easier to be taken out of the forward line for a spell in the ruck than out of the back line.

I agree though, we're better with Pedersen in defence and Dunn on half forward, and IMO Roos needs to work out (fast) a way to make that happen.

[jumbo returns 6,738]

I assume it's because we wanted to ruck him for longer than we did last week, to give Spencer a longer breather. The longer he needs to spend out of the backline, the harder it is to use him there. As second ruck it's easier to be taken out of the forward line for a spell in the ruck than out of the back line.

I agree though, we're better with Pedersen in defence and Dunn on half forward, and IMO Roos needs to work out (fast) a way to make that happen.

In the 60s and 70s, the resting ruckman was always in the back pocket.....

[DemonOX 8,783]

I assume it's because we wanted to ruck him for longer than we did last week, to give Spencer a longer breather. The longer he needs to spend out of the backline, the harder it is to use him there. As second ruck it's easier to be taken out of the forward line for a spell in the ruck than out of the back line.

I agree though, we're better with Pedersen in defence and Dunn on half forward, and IMO Roos needs to work out (fast) a way to make that happen.

Could we fit Jamar and Spencer in the same team and rest one of them in the forward line? By forward line I mean in the goal square.

That way Pedo can be down back.

[Alcho Dee 269]

As bad as Watts was he has still been better than Tyson or Vince have the last two weeks, Jordie was also terrible yesterday,so you cant really blame our woes on him, its a collective effort.

I disagree, Tyson has been excellent for us and much better than Watts. Go and watch the replays. Kidding yourself.

[jackaub 1,402]

The problem with having a considered and balanced opinion, especially in the wake of a loss, is that other's rage will lead them to misinterperate it.

Agree with your points, especially the 'knowing how' in relation to work rate. I wonder if this also the case for him with the physical stuff. There's always been a lack of 'want' in Jack's game and it's the coaches job to find out why and rectify it. For those that think stringing him up in the city centre for 100 lashes is the answer, it isn't, Neeld tried that and it didn't work. Hopefully there is another way.

Too late he is now a problem!