I am not convinced that they have all been wrong - I think we have taken young talent and put them into our cesspool of a club and just expected them to thrive.

I totally agree, my point was that it's impossible that we could have picked a dud every single time while the teams around us picked better. It's clearly development which has been the main factor, for me.

Its pointless including players taken before our picks. A better exercise would be to include the best plater taken within 5 picks our our top 10 picks and within 10 of all other picks as a guide to the the quality of the drafting. Hindsight can be cruel mistress. In 2003 for example, David Mundy was predominantly a key or third tall back with good kicking ability. He was never in the frame for a top 5 pick on the basis of need. In reality Brent Stanton was the only possibly realistic better pick that could have been made that year. And we didnt have a pick 21 that year.

It wasn't so much showing players we could have taken but the type of players that went around our missed picks and how those players are now key ingredients to there current teams. It was showing how we have missed out on over half a team in fail draft picks and I know every team has failed picks but it just shows what sort of players we are now lacking in a major way.

Edited April 8, 201411 yr by Grimes Times

I've met his Dad and I know someone who has known him for some time. He's a ripping bloke, not the problem as far as I could tell.

Cale thought he was the smartest bloke in the room, never listened to the coaches, probably needed to go to somewhere like the Swans, Hawks or Cats to have the arrogance beaten out of him.

Interesting. Early on at the Eagles, there were suggestions he interfered too much/tried to have too much input into what position Mitch played, how he trained et cetera and it had a negative effect on his football. Could be apocryphal though.

Edited April 8, 201411 yr by goodoil

I was thinking more about the club getting worth out of its early picks.

Thompson was an excellent pick but fate has judged that poorly aswell...

McLean and Sylvia are now flailing at other clubs, and yes we had 3 and 5 in the wrong year but there is a pattern - we have been picked poorly with early picks for a generation.

Development is an unkown unknown as Donal Rumsfeld used to say...

I know a lot of other clubs look down on our development and with good reason but I just don't think we have picked well (or had a great deal of luck) from 1999 to 2004 and again from 2007 to 2011.

You just can't have failed year after failed year.

You're right. You can't just have failed at recruiting year after year. The talent pool is big enough at the picks we've had that you could take any one of the players reasonable to go at that pick and get a decent player.

The common thread is not the individual choices, but the club they came to.

I've filled in the blanks below and its a damming list. In red are players taken around our failed pick and all those players (13 of them) are keys players in there respective teams and shows what we are missing.

1999 (ND5*) -

2000 (ND16) – SCOTT THOMPSON

2001 (ND9) – LUKE MOLAN (8 BARTEL)

2002 (ND14, 15) – DANIEL BELL, NICK SMITH (12 SCHULZ)

2003 (ND3, 5, 21) – SYLVIA, MCLEAN, (19 MUNDY)

2004 (ND13, 15) - Dunn – BATE (14 MONFRIES)

2005 (ND12) - Jones

2006 (ND12) - Frawley

2007 (ND4, 14, 21) – Grimes – MORTON, MARIC (3 MASTEN, 19 WARD)

2008 (ND1, 17, 19) – Watts BLEASE STRAUSS ( 18 SHUEY, 23 ZAHARAKIS)

2009 (ND1, 2, 11, 18) – Trengove, SCULLY GYSBERTS, TAPSCOTT ( 3 MARTIN, 13 TALIA, 20 FYFE)

2010 (ND12) – COOK ( 11, LYNCH)

2011 (ND12) – CLARKE (11-TOBY GREEN)

2012 (ND4) - Toumpas

There is almost nothing to be gained from these sorts of comparisons.

Left-field picks are criticisable, like Cook and Gysberts. Otherwise, our recruiters took players that were expected to be taken around where we took.

Our biggest recruiting issue has been trends. We took players in batches - in the late Daniher era we took a few too many stocky bodies (Bate, Dunn, Bartram, Jones, Moloney). Then, we overcorrected under Bailey in looking for the more skilled players (Morton, Blease, Strauss, Gysberts). Those kinds of trends are much more worth debating than individual picks.

I think our drafting has followed the game plan and requirements of the current coach.

I feel that until we can get some sort of consistency in that area the recruiting and subsequent playing list will always be a 'hodge-podge' of 'could-have-beens' that won't get the appropriate coaching or opportunity because they 'don't fit into the current coaches mould'.

As already stated, all clubs have a huge list of monumental fails with regard to early round drafting. But we ALL have a record of picking up 'gems' late in the draft too.

What we currently need is a leader of MEN who can bring the best out of what they have to work with.....NOT.......someone who will highlight the groups deficiencies and use that as an excuse for not being competitive.

At the end of the day there are very few AFL coaches that have been able to hand pick each and every player on their list. The good ones work with what they have and don't make excuses or complain about it; they build a culture and the team follows.

Let's hope Roosie has the hunger he needs to get the job done.....just like Ronald Dale did in the late eighties.

Go Dees

The real cherry on the top is our recruiting was shite then we get done for not tanking.

We actually failed at failing.

'

this post reminds me of the Norsworthy and Diamond Jim

times. perhaps a team of bad drafts is in order.

when were these Guys drafted?

Warnok

Maloney

Martin

Pettard

Cheney

Rivers

Sylvia

Mohr

McLean

Scully

'

this post reminds me of the Norsworthy and Diamond Jim

times. perhaps a team of bad drafts is in order.

when were these Guys drafted?

Warnok

Maloney

Martin

Pettard

Cheney

Rivers

Sylvia

Mohr

McLean

Scully

Warnok, Maloney and Pettard were never drafted by Melbourne. Neither was Mohr

Edited April 8, 201411 yr by angrydee

Pettard pick # 30 2006 draft melbourne

Warnock pick # 26 rookie draft melboune

The real cherry on the top is our recruiting was shite then we get done for not tanking.

We actually failed at failing.

Ha ha ha ha ha!!!

Absolutely right! We failed at failing and then got caught and punished for the failing that we failed at

'

this post reminds me of the Norsworthy and Diamond Jim

times. perhaps a team of bad drafts is in order.

when were these Guys drafted?

Warnok

Maloney

Martin

Pettard

Cheney

Rivers

Sylvia

Mohr

McLean

Scully

Lay off the sweet mary jane for a while pants.

I agree nutbean develop them in the reserves.

In your opinion then how many years should we develop a player before we decide he's not up to it?

And yes maybe I should apply for a recruiters job. When I first heard that Watts had never been in a fight and that Darling had been in plenty I suspected we had made a mistake. I was hoping to be proven wrong though, as like you all I wanted Watts to be our next Neitz. He hasn't developed and lacks a key essential to become great; he doesn't want it bad enough, he has no ticker. Ouch! this hurts us all and is a major problem with our list.

Dennis Pagan used to do it well at Nth Melb. He would take his four worst players from the seniors that week and pair them up with his four best from the reserves. he would tell them that there are only four spots available and then watch them at training all week smash into each other to see who wanted that spot the most. That's what I call development and that's what we have to find at Melbourne the 22 who want it the most. Move the others on and bring new ones in.

At Melbourne too many players get games who don't deserve it.

I agree nutbean develop them in the reserves.

In your opinion then how many years should we develop a player before we decide he's not up to it?

And yes maybe I should apply for a recruiters job. When I first heard that Watts had never been in a fight and that Darling had been in plenty I suspected we had made a mistake. I was hoping to be proven wrong though, as like you all I wanted Watts to be our next Neitz. He hasn't developed and lacks a key essential to become great; he doesn't want it bad enough, he has no ticker. Ouch! this hurts us all and is a major problem with our list.

Dennis Pagan used to do it well at Nth Melb. He would take his four worst players from the seniors that week and pair them up with his four best from the reserves. he would tell them that there are only four spots available and then watch them at training all week smash into each other to see who wanted that spot the most. That's what I call development and that's what we have to find at Melbourne the 22 who want it the most. Move the others on and bring new ones in.

At Melbourne too many players get games who don't deserve it.

CS. The great List Manager.

I would love to read that last post he wrote on here again.

Does it exists i wonder?

Should be sent to the Hun and or Denham. They would crucify him!!

Why you little, could you be clearer? I'm not sure I fully understand.

Sarcasm perhaps.

Why you little, could you be clearer? I'm not sure I fully understand.

Sarcasm perhaps.

Cameron would sporadically post on here Frosty. His last entry that i saw was about list management and how he was glad 'land members were not involved.

Now your really messing with me. funny

You're right. You can't just have failed at recruiting year after year. The talent pool is big enough at the picks we've had that you could take any one of the players reasonable to go at that pick and get a decent player.

The common thread is not the individual choices, but the club they came to.

That's an interesting way to turn what i was saying around.

Jones has seemingly bucked the trend of poor development at the club.

We haven't picked well with early picks.

Bad development at the fringes but the theme is we have chosen poorly.

That's an interesting way to turn what i was saying around.

Jones has seemingly bucked the trend of poor development at the club.

We haven't picked well with early picks.

Bad development at the fringes but the theme is we have chosen poorly.

Poor development does not mean 'every player is doomed to fail when they come to Melbourne'.

Jones clearly has improved whilst he's been here, as have plenty of others (e.g. Garland, Jamar, McDonald, Dunn).

But the point perhaps is reinforced looking at it like this - even if we took players higher than they should have, they were all still rated to go about where we picked them (save for the abominations, like Cook and Gysberts). For example, even if Blease at 17 was a touch too high at the time, it would be fair to put him around, say 25. For a pick 25, Blease hasn't been good enough. The players we have taken haven't met their subjective draft position value, but they also haven't met their objective value (where there is a difference).

With the reports at the time suggesting that almost all our picks (again, with the abominations the exception) were easily justifiable at the time, the focus comes down to whether or not they were given the best chance of fulfilling their potential at Melbourne. I think it's patently obvious they were not.

Bad development was not at the fringes - it was, and remains, at the core of this club's malaise.

There's no doubt that the 2 new teams have hurt our rebuild stage. They have taken all the good pick over the past 3 drafts plus they stole our number 1 pick player of 09.

No wonder the AFL feels the need to help us now.

We got [censored] over.

Cameron would sporadically post on here Frosty. His last entry that i saw was about list management and how he was glad 'land members were not involved.

'WYL', I think you are talking "Chinese Whispers", he wasn't talking list management (although he thought he was an expert lol). I think it was something to do with sponsorship, but he certainly thought we had no idea. The all seeing all knowing CS.

Pettard pick # 30 2006 draft melbourne

Warnock pick # 26 rookie draft melboune

Wrong. PettErd was drafted. I also said Warnok was not. Warnock was.

'WYL', I think you are talking "Chinese Whispers", he wasn't talking list management (although he thought he was an expert lol). I think it was something to do with sponsorship, but he certainly thought we had no idea. The all seeing all knowing CS.

yes you are right rjay. I re read the post on tuesday night. Let's just call it a "Grey Area"!!

Kelly is playing Salem is not

Salem missed the preseason with a thyroid condition which caused him to lose 6 kilos. He is slowly working his way back to fitness. Get your facts right before you start condemning players.

Tells you something about our organisation - Hawks/Swans/Cats have coaches that would have done that - demanded and instilled the attitude of excelling. But not only the coaches. Young players need a good core of older players who are talented on the field, that are disciplined off the field and on the training track - someone to emulate. They need good strong leaders - we have been bereft in this area.

This is closer to the mark. I believe the Leadership void started under Daniher. Jolly wrote an article a few years ago saying Daniher had an inner sanctum of favorites and if you weren't in that group he virtually ignored you. He said Daniher would walk past him and ignore him. If the coach was doing that you can be sure those inner sanctum players who should have been the cultural leaders of the club were probably also acting elitist and not leading the junior players. That's certainly they way it looked over those years. Those players used to go missing every year for a month eg '06 when we were on top of the ladder around round 18 and then lost every game. None of them stood up.

I have watched Sydney closely in intra club games and their leaders are out there directing players exactly where to stand, when to go, when to stay on their man etc. It's like they have 12 or so onfield coaches. You can see them doing it constantly during games. That's leadership. That results in unbelievable development of Junior players. The coaches are only part of the equation. Daniher never developed a leadership culture like that. Bailey didn't really have any leaders to work with. Neitz was the exception but he used to go missing during those down periods. Neeld tried to recruit older players to at least bring it into the Club, mostly off field. Roos has a lot of work to do.

Wrong. PettErd was drafted. I also said Warnok was not. Warnock was.

gee the spelling police are in town