has there actually been a side go through a whole season winless? if not then i won't be surprised to see us become the first. This side is a disgrace at the moment!

Back on topic, todays game was lost in the middle. -25 clearances and 60 hit outs to Mummy. The last goal they got was Mumford palming with his left hand over the back to the rover. We need a real ruck man and with all due respect to Spencer he isn't going to make it. I watched Carlisle compete tonight as Essendon's ruck man against a much bigger opponent. He was an asset, taking marks, and getting kicks around the ground and making a contest so the other ruck man didn't get his hands on the ball. Spencer has no idea of how to compete at this level. When he gets hit outs they are often to the opposition and so far this year the saints ruck monstered us, West Coast obliterated us and Mummy was 3 short of the record. It all begins in the middle so start planning now to poach a ruck man from somewhere.

Mate don't stop there. You are spot on with our problem at Melbourne. Too many of our players are mot up to AFL standard. They might make good local footballers but this is why we are so woeful.

There are too many on our list to mention but Frawley is one of them as well. You only have to look at his two costly turn overs against the saints in the last quarter and his performance against the Eagles. He has been poor for years and everybody keeps making excuses for him; he's under so much pressure. Boo hoo just check out Nate Jones attitude one of the few I would keep.

What part of "we've got a heap of key players out" do people not understand?

It effects everything.

Deadset kidding yourself.

No, it isn't.

Reading the hand-wringing on here every week; it's like this place has a collective amnesia of the ills of the list and the performance of the players we do have.

We have a bad list - and some of the players I would consider 'talented' are horribly out of form, battling career defining injuries, or have one major aspect of their game/career that has stunted that talent playing for this club.

How often can you be appalled? Shocked at the result? Tired of the performance?

I suppose it is a good thing that we 'expect more' but conclusions have been reached.

We are a bad team.

It's time to be less shocked.

I can't speak for others but I am shocked every time a player steps on to the field and doesn't show 100% commitment to the cause, including efforts to get loose, to chase, to make body contact and run through someone, to shepherd for their teammates etc etc I will never cease to be shocked by the ineptness and lack of heart shown by a player on the field even if the same player does it for 22 weeks of the year.

Also [censored] lol at "we are a bad team" - understatement of the century. I don't know what you do for a crust but you should consider a career in PR or politics, they appreciate the ability to spin bullcrap in those industries.

Edited April 6, 201411 yr by Dr. Gonzo

At least Carlton lost by 80!

We shouldn't forget the early picks with them haven't worked well either....

Kreuzer Cup II next week.

Remember kids. Tanking doesn't pay.

Spot on! Steve O Dwer and Byron Pickett

Deadset kidding yourself.

How bad we're Freo without Barlow and Fyfe, just like we are without Dawes, Clark, Graland, Hogan. It does have an effect, but we will never win with Fitzpatrick, Spencer, Byrnes, Pederson.

Are we look at the end of the oldest club in the AFL?

Deep down we all want this to happen so the pain will stop.

That's rubbish, mate. I love this club. Our football team has been hopeless since 2007, but I won't ever stop supporting and I will go along every week.

How bad we're Freo without Barlow and Fyfe, just like we are without Dawes, Clark, Graland, Hogan. It does have an effect, but we will never win with Fitzpatrick, Spencer, Byrnes, Pederson.

Hawthorn were "on" and Freo were frazzled, I doubt Barlow and Fyfe would have made a difference. No doubt Dawes, Hogan, Garland would help (Clark is not worth considering at this stage and I'm not gonna include Jamar or Gawn) but we still would have the same guys butchering the ball, giving weak efforts and handballing to teammates under pressure instead of taking the game on themselves with them in the side.

Those four ins will make a big difference but I think you should prepare yourself for not seeing Clark

Judd definitely does, maybe not so much anymore but when at West Coast and even his first year or so at Carlton he was dangerous around the goals.

Yeah, fair point, mate. I'm sure I could find another gun who doesn't kick many though. It's just fantastic seeing a bloke that consistently cracks 25+ possessions and his efficiency is fantastic. We're coming from a low base. I'm happy with him winning clearances and contested possessions for the moment.

How bad we're Freo without Barlow and Fyfe, just like we are without Dawes, Clark, Graland, Hogan. It does have an effect, but we will never win with Fitzpatrick, Spencer, Byrnes, Pederson.

Clark is all but gone, at least as a player for this club.

Dawes has done little to suggest he will be much better than what we currently have. He might kick a bit straighter.

Hogan hasn't played a game yet.

Garland is missed with what he provides creatively, but really, their inclusion won't fix the quality of ball use overall. It won't stop the turnovers happening all over the ground. It won't solve the horrible communication problems. We might kick a couple more goals but that's the extent of it.

can't understand why Spencer has been given 3 games, he was woeful first and second week as well

I actually thought he was dominant for a period of about four or five minutes at the start of the last quarter. In that time, surprise, surprise, we hit the lead. The rest of the day he was smashed though. As he was last week and the week before.

The answer is no replacements.

Yeah, fair point, mate. I'm sure I could find another gun who doesn't kick many though. It's just fantastic seeing a bloke that consistently cracks 25+ possessions and his efficiency is fantastic. We're coming from a low base. I'm happy with him winning clearances and contested possessions for the moment.

I agree and have loved watching Tyson's work this year it was just an observation he needs to add this to his game to be a really damaging gun mid for us. Obviously hasn't been helped by his teammates either.

At least it was an improvement on last week. It's a pity it all fell in a heap in the last quarter. The win was there for the taking.

The turnovers are still killing us. That and the brain explosions once we get close to the forward arc. And the stopping and propping is driving me up the wall. Move the bloody ball on. You don't score when you give them ample opportunity to get back and set up.

Not sure where a win is going to come from this year. Can almost pencil in a 0 win season.

The stopping and propping comes from the lack of upfield options though, P. Give us a Dawes or Hogan and you'd see less indecision and quicker ball movement. It really has made it almost impossible for Roos the first three weeks. What can he do? There have been a couple of facets that I think he could have been a little more imaginative with (kick outs being one example), but it really has (pardon the pun) hamstrung our side.

has there actually been a side go through a whole season winless? if not then i won't be surprised to see us become the first. This side is a disgrace at the moment!

With tragic irony, the last time a side went winless was in our Premiership year, 1964.(Fitzroy, I think)

I was hoping( a few years ago), that 2014 would be our next Premiership, 50 years on.

It looks quite possible that we'll be seeing an abysmal result at the end of 2014.

Have a look at carton play the bombers I'm not so sure we won't actually.

Also I am surprised at the amount of negativity about today's game.

Agree we turned it over too much but it was a big improvement on last wk.

Because we don't have a forwardline to kick goals or play through.

There's just no way we'll be able to kick a winning score against anyone until we get Dawes and/or Hogan back. It's just not going to happen.

Edited April 6, 201411 yr by AdamFarr

Kreuzer Cup II next week.

Remember kids. Tanking doesn't pay.

The Wright cup

Kreuzer Cup II next week.

Remember kids. Tanking doesn't pay.

Will also be The Battle of Kursk Mark II.

Blues will win convincingly.

Spot on, mate. The Blues always clean up against the weak sides and struggle against the good ones.

Carlton struggling does provide me with a little bit of solace though.

Edited April 6, 201411 yr by AdamFarr

Carlton accused us of playing soft no bruise footy and i cannot see that we have changed. Players are not trying to put in shepherds and bumps when they can, tackling numbers especially on a day like today were poor compared to the giants, a bunch of kids toweled us up and gave our guys a football lesson, shame so few of our players actually learn anything from these weekly lessons.

2007 - 5/22
2008 - 3/22
2009 - 4/22
2010 - 8.5/22 (heady days indeed!)
2011 - 8.5/22
2012 - 4/22
2013 - 2/22
2014 - 0/2

totals

35/156 games or 22.43%

if you take out 2010 and 2011, that makes it 18 wins from 114 games.

2007 - 5/22

2008 - 3/22

2009 - 4/22

2010 - 8.5/22 (heady days indeed!)

2011 - 8.5/22

2012 - 4/22

2013 - 2/22

2014 - 0/2

totals

35/156 games or 22.43%

if you take out 2010 and 2011, that makes it 18 wins from 114 games.

This club does not learn anything does it.

I feel ill looking at those stats.

What part of "we've got a heap of key players out" do people not understand?

It effects everything.

Not everything.