This is the stuff our group must produce

[Soidee 1,496]

I watch Essendon, I watch St Kilda to mention a few. Regardless of their plight, they play with passion, they bleed for the jumper and club. I have not seen this by a Demons team for 6 long bloody years.

I want some gut running, some fire and passion, ruthless attack on the ball this week for the whole game.

You cannot fault the resilience of Essendon players ... when will the dees grab their chance to be resilient? It's time!!!

NOW

[Dr. Gonzo 22,853]

I agree Soidee. Footy is 90% above the shoulders and if you have the mindset right often the rest will follow. Of course you need the talent etc but all things being equal the psychology is the most important thing to get right. Last week we came out and played pretty well for the first 10-15 minutes but as soon as we missed a few shots and St.Kilda took some momentum there was a noticeable shift in our players attitude. Getting this right will go a long way to improving our side.

By the way Melbourne sides have been mentally weak for as long as I've been supporting them (since late 80's). During the Northey era we would often kill our season with a string of poor losses meaning we'd have to struggle into the finals and have to fight our way through from the Elimination Final. '94 we began 5-0 and only just snuck into the finals. Same thing would happen during the Daniher era (particularly 2004-2006) when we would either get into a good position (1st after R18 2004) and then drop gimme games which would see us tumble to the bottom half of the 8 or lose games against weak opposition (lost to Carlton twice in 2006 and they only won 3 games for the season!) that would cost us a top 4 spot and a genuine chance at the flag.

Even during our 2 GF years the teams we played knew they were never in trouble because all they had to do was play a hard physical game and we would go to water. Some will say we came up against two "generational" teams and while there is some truth to that the other truth is that they are perceived that way in part because we never took it up to them on GF day. For example in 1989 Hawthorn were just as impressive yet Geelong only went down by a goal.

[rjay 24,204]

I agree Soidee. Footy is 90% above the shoulders and if you have the mindset right often the rest will follow. Of course you need the talent etc but all things being equal the psychology is the most important thing to get right. Last week we came out and played pretty well for the first 10-15 minutes but as soon as we missed a few shots and St.Kilda took some momentum there was a noticeable shift in our players attitude. Getting this right will go a long way to improving our side.

Don't agree with this at all, I reckon it's 90+% talent and then the mental side will give you the edge. You don't have the talent then all the mental application in the world won't get you there.

[Soidee 1,496]

Don't agree with this at all, I reckon it's 90+% talent and then the mental side will give you the edge. You don't have the talent then all the mental application in the world won't get you there.

rjay - yes talent is front an square, but you watch the resurgence of Port Adelaide and there is no doubt in my mind that they now have the mental strength to back up the talent.

Our list with exception of newbies 2014 have not a scintilla of resilience. That's what I want to see, take the game on FFS, give us something !!!!!

Guys with 50 plus games under their belt should stop going into their shells. Enough is enough.

As Roos said, he will find out who can play AFL at our club this year....well let's see!!!

[Ted Lasso 17,348]

Don't agree with this at all, I reckon it's 90+% talent and then the mental side will give you the edge. You don't have the talent then all the mental application in the world won't get you there.

I agree, Nick Maxwell is a perfect example, mentally very good, useless player with little talent.

Jack Viney, all the talent in the world, but the way he attacks the ball you wonder if there is anything between his ears sometimes

[rufus 956]

Yeah we always seem to be producing excuses for why we can't win. Other clubs don't seem to care much for excuses, and nor should they given that this is a professional sport. And why are our players now receiving a message that the scoreboard doesn't matter? That seems really odd and far from what I'd have thought this club needs.

Port went from rubbish to ultra competitive in one pre season by being well organised and committed to a cause. They went from playing like boys to playing like men which we show little sign of doing. Some will argue they had more talent available but I don't think that's the point. Westhoff is a great example of a bloke who had been cruising and underachieving but who has turned into a reliable and important cog in their unit. They've gotten that from many players on their list.

I still blame the players of the last 10 years for the predicament we're in, despite all the coaching and admin issues. The players are still being given an easy out by having Roos say 'they're coming from a long way back'. Bull $ hit. They're professional sportsman who are on the list because when playing as boys they got lots of kicks and kicked lots of goals and must have won lots of one on one contests, so start playing like men and get it done. Not sure there has been the pride in the jumper or the tendency to put club before yourself with our lot.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,853]

I agree, Nick Maxwell is a perfect example, mentally very good, useless player with little talent.

Premiership captain who has played 200 games over a career spanning more than a decade.

Thanks for proving my point.

[P-man 13,356]

I agree, Nick Maxwell is a perfect example, mentally very good, useless player with little talent.

Jack Viney, all the talent in the world, but the way he attacks the ball you wonder if there is anything between his ears sometimes

The example you give with Maxwell actually contradicts rjay, and I'm not sure how Viney's attack on the ball is relevant to a debate about talent vs mental strength. Having a will for the contest is a positive, not a negative.

I'm with Gonzo and Soidee. The mental part of the game is enormous. Confidence breeds. We have none of it.

[jumbo returns 6,619]

We have minimal talent.

Poor, poor drafting has cost us.

There will be more pain - Roos knows this....he's not saying much, but he'll make some hard (easy) calls at year's end.

[Cards13 9,117]

We have minimal talent.

Poor, poor drafting has cost us.

There will be more pain - Roos knows this....he's not saying much, but he'll make some hard (easy) calls at year's end.

I think we will find it hard to keep Frawls and Jones this year and next year due to the pain still being around this year and into next.

It annoys me no end, but I get more enjoyment out of watch a Sydney or a Geelong than my own Fing club.

[jumbo returns 6,619]

I think we will find it hard to keep Frawls and Jones this year and next year due to the pain still being around this year and into next.

It annoys me no end, but I get more enjoyment out of watch a Sydney or a Geelong than my own Fing club.

Jonesy strikes me as being loyal, steadfast and committed.

Chip looks disinterested and is almost certainly 90% out the door*

*DISCLAIMER....opinion only.

I prefer Freo, GWS and GCS..

[rufus 956]

Jonesy strikes me as being loyal, steadfast and committed.

Chip looks disinterested and is almost certainly 90% out the door*

*DISCLAIMER....opinion only.

I prefer Freo, GWS and GCS..

I assume it was considered last year but I was hoping we'd trade Frawley during the trade period. He's been disinterested for a few years and frankly I've had enough of watching blokes who don't seem to care.

Still can't reconcile the idea of all these blokes who say they want to change clubs to chase success. How about taking accountability for the success of the club you started with? The strength of most of the best clubs has been driven by the commitment of their players.

[jumbo returns 6,619]

I assume it was considered last year but I was hoping we'd trade Frawley during the trade period. He's been disinterested for a few years and frankly I've had enough of watching blokes who don't seem to care.

Still can't reconcile the idea of all these blokes who say they want to change clubs to chase success. How about taking accountability for the success of the club you started with? The strength of most of the best clubs has been driven by the commitment of their players.

No truer words have been spoken.

Too few do too much.

Frawley's meant to be a leader....he's a big sook, atm.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,853]

I assume it was considered last year but I was hoping we'd trade Frawley during the trade period. He's been disinterested for a few years and frankly I've had enough of watching blokes who don't seem to care.

Still can't reconcile the idea of all these blokes who say they want to change clubs to chase success. How about taking accountability for the success of the club you started with? The strength of most of the best clubs has been driven by the commitment of their players.

There is truth in that but it's hard for one player to change the direction of an entire club if he has no support.

[P-man 13,356]

Frawley is one player and he's had a gutful of losing on the weekend, year after year after year. He's good enough to play in premiership sides. I won't blame him one iota for leaving.

[rufus 956]

There is truth in that but it's hard for one player to change the direction of an entire club if he has no support.

Yeah that's a fair call but I reckon Nathan Jones is a great example to put up against Frawley. As a team we've been losing more and more yet he has obviously worked his butt off to just get better and better as a player. I can't comment to how hard Frawley has worked behind the scenes but the reality is he does not seem to have improved much as a player since his breakout AA year. His disposal seems worse and his decision making is no better. All I can see from the sidelines is a bloke blaming everything that goes wrong on everyone else.

Jones' improvement curve is not out this world in comparison to players at other clubs but it is a shining beacon at the MFC of the last 6 or 7 years.

[jumbo returns 6,619]

Frawley is one player and he's had a gutful of losing on the weekend, year after year after year. He's good enough to play in premiership sides. I won't blame him one iota for leaving.

How about this?

'My name's Chip and I'm putting my hand up! Let's change this culture!!'

No? Okay, show me the money.

[P-man 13,356]

How about this?

'My name's Chip and I'm putting my hand up! Let's change this culture!!'

No? Okay, show me the money.

Why should his entire career suffer because of the incompetent peanuts that have been running the show for the past decade? He didn't ask for the horrendous drafting for one. He had absolutely no say in that.

People say he hasn't improved. Perhaps not. He still accounts for his man more often than not. He still does his primary role, more often than not.

You need to be realistic. Everything is a two way street.

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

You have to learn to play the game plan first.

Once it becomes second nature, confidence will build in each other.

Along with confidence, you know who has your back.

Knowing that gives you the confidence to go harder because you have support.

You will then find that all players will lift and play the game tougher.

Those that don't are on the list out the door.

[jumbo returns 6,619]

Why should his entire career suffer because of the incompetent peanuts that have been running the show for the past decade? He didn't ask for the horrendous drafting for one. He had absolutely no say in that.

People say he hasn't improved. Perhaps not. He still accounts for his man more often than not. He still does his primary role, more often than not.

You need to be realistic. Everything is a two way street.

Perhaps. But he rarely stands up.....figuratively speaking.

Won't take charge.

Not a leader's armpit.

Footnote: I used to back Chip, but I'm with stevethemanjordan here that has declared all along that Chip is a lazy, 'dumb' footballer who should have been traded ages ago.

Edited March 29, 2014 by jumbo returns

[jumbo returns 6,619]

You have to learn to play the game plan first.

Once it becomes second nature, confidence will build in each other.

Along with confidence, you know who has your back.

Knowing that gives you the confidence to go harder because you have support.

You will then find that all players will lift and play the game tougher.

Those that don't are on the list out the door.

Or walk for coin.

[rjay 24,204]

rjay - yes talent is front an square, but you watch the resurgence of Port Adelaide and there is no doubt in my mind that they now have the mental strength to back up the talent.

Our list with exception of newbies 2014 have not a scintilla of resilience. That's what I want to see, take the game on FFS, give us something !!!!!

Guys with 50 plus games under their belt should stop going into their shells. Enough is enough.

As Roos said, he will find out who can play AFL at our club this year....well let's see!!!

As I said the mental side gives is what gives you the edge. There is no doubt about the talent on Port's list.

I agree, Nick Maxwell is a perfect example, mentally very good, useless player with little talent.

Jack Viney, all the talent in the world, but the way he attacks the ball you wonder if there is anything between his ears sometimes

You don't play 200 games of AFL with little or no talent. He might not be the most talented player in the game but he is still a very good footballed as was seen again tonight.

I'm not sure what the point on Viney is but give him time, I'm sure he will realise his talent in the long run.

I watch Essendon, I watch St Kilda to mention a few. Regardless of their plight, they play with passion, they bleed for the jumper and club. I have not seen this by a Demons team for 6 long bloody years.

I want some gut running, some fire and passion, ruthless attack on the ball this week for the whole game.

You cannot fault the resilience of Essendon players ... when will the dees grab their chance to be resilient? It's time!!!

NOW

St Kilda have their captain, he makes a big difference and there is a core group who only a few years ago played off in GF's. Essendon have been building a list for a while now, they've just done it much better than us. Having Fletcher and Watson doesn't hurt them.

Our problem has come from out list (well really mis management at the club but we've been through this a number of times) and this has started to be addressed. Jones has stood up as the sole leader at the club and now he has a bit of help. Sorry, I should also say last season that Col Garland really stood up.

I have mixed feelings about Frawley. I understand the club has let him and a lot of the players down but I don't think he is showing the leadership required at the moment. Interesting that other players who have put their clubs on notice Danger and Gibbs have both struggled a bit this year. Rambling a bit here but in our leadership group we have Jones, Grimes (who is yet to prove himself as a player, must show it this year), Garland who is a leader, Frawley who's not sure he wants to be here and Clark who is not here.

I don't blame Frawley for having doubts, the club have let everyone down over the last number of years but maybe he could have handled this a bit better.

I've said this a few times but I think it's time for Roos and Jackson to commit to at least 3 years as well, as supporters I'm sure we're very uneasy about the short term nature of the assignment and if we are then what's at the back of the players minds.

[Chook 14,711]

There is truth in that but it's hard for one player to change the direction of an entire club if he has no support.

If a few people stand up, others will follow. That's what leadership is.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,853]

If a few people stand up, others will follow. That's what leadership is.

How do you know he hasn't tried though? To be fair we only see what's happening on the field not what goes on behind the scenes. He is in the leadership group so you would assume he has some leadership qualities.

The comparison to Jones is fair but I'd also argue that playing midfield for MFC, while not easy, has been easier than playing FB for the last few seasons.

[jackaub 1,402]

Perhaps. But he rarely stands up.....figuratively speaking.

Won't take charge.

Not a leader's armpit.

Footnote: I used to back Chip, but I'm with stevethemanjordan here that has declared all along that Chip is a lazy, 'dumb' footballer who should have been traded ages ago.

I agree Jumbo Chip was one of my favourite players in the past I loved the way he took the oposition on. He got cuaght al ot but i thought he would learn. He hasnt and now has found his excuse and wants to go. Lazy and dumb is a good description.