Agree with this entirely.

As good as Jones' output has been for the Dees, anyone that thinks Jones deserves a 9 in comparison to the rest of the comp, is getting ahead of themselves.

I understand his stats etc re: his clearances but comparing him to the likes of Kennedy and Hannebery...seriously.

Maybe I'm a hard marker, but I can differentiate between stats and quality output.

I agree HT. Jonesy has become an outstanding warrior for the MFC, but there's no comparison between him and the handful of elite mids who could legitimately lay claim to a score of 9 or 10 based on 2013 performances.

In light of some people getting a bit excited about where we may finish next year and also because I have been in a list and chart making mood lately I thought it would be interesting to compare our top 5 mids against the top 5 of all other clubs. Obviously our midfield has been our weakness over the last few years with our spine looking strong this year. But quality midfields win games, particularly in modern footy. There will be dissagreements over who the top 5 at each club are and obviously depth is important, but in thinking about this I think it may reveal just how far back we are coming from.

Melbourne: N Jones, B Vince, D Tyson, D Cross, J Viney

GWS: C Ward, D Shiel, T Scully, Treloar, Greene

St Kilda: Hayes, Montagna, Steven, Armitage, Roberton

W Bulldogs: Griffen, Boyd, Cooney, Liberatore, Wallis

Brisbane: Rockliff, Rich, Redden, Adcock, Moloney
Gold Coast: Ablett, Swallow, O'Meara, Bennell, Prestia

Adelaide: Dangerfield, Thompson, Sloane, Douglas, Van Berlo,

West Coast: Priddis, Masten, Selwood, Shuey, Gaff

North Melbourne: (Harvey?) Wells, Dal Santo, Bastinac, Cunnington, Ziebell,

Essendon: Watson, Goddard, Zaharakis, Stanton, Heppell

Port Adelaide: Boak, Hartlett, Cornes, Hartlett, Wines

Carlton: Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Thomas, McClean

Richmond: Cotchin, Martin, Deledio, Jackson, Ellis

Collingwood: Pendleberry, Swan, Beams, Ball, Sidebottom,

Sydney: Hanneberry, Jack, Kennedy, O'Keefe, McVeigh

Geelong: Selwood, Bartel, Johnson, Duncan, Kelly

Freo: Fyfe, Mundy, Barlow, Crowley, Hill

Hawthorn: Mitchell, Lewis, Sewell, Burgoyne, Smith

On that list, even if Tyson is a gun I would say we still have the least impressive top line midfielders in the AFL, the rest of our team may be able to make up the difference on a lot of teams and we may bat deeper than some teams but I think this shows we still have a huge amount of work to do in terms of our midfield competing with top 8 teams.

Edited October 26, 201312 yr by deejammin'

Just guessing but probably better than 2013 !

In light of some people getting a bit excited about where we may finish next year and also because I have been in a list and chart making mood lately I thought it would be interesting to compare our top 5 mids against the top 5 of all other clubs. Obviously our midfield has been our weakness over the last few years with our spine looking strong this year. But quality midfields win games, particularly in modern footy. There will be dissagreements over who the top 5 at each club are and obviously depth is important, but in thinking about this I think it may reveal just how far back we are coming from.

Melbourne: N Jones, B Vince, D Tyson, D Cross, J Viney

GWS: C Ward, D Shiel, T Scully, Treloar, Greene

St Kilda: Hayes, Montagna, Steven, Armitage, Roberton

W Bulldogs: Griffen, Boyd, Cooney, Liberatore, Wallis

Brisbane: Rockliff, Rich, Redden, Adcock, Moloney

Gold Coast: Ablett, Swallow, O'Meara, Bennell, Hall

Adelaide: Dangerfield, Thompson, Sloane, Douglas, Van Berlo,

West Coast: Priddis, Masten, Selwood, Shuey, Gaff

North Melbourne: (Harvey?) Wells, Dal Santo, Bastinac, Cunnington, Ziebell,

Essendon: Watson, Goddard, Zaharakis, Stanton, Heppell

Port Adelaide: Boak, Hartlett, Cornes, Hartlett, Wines

Carlton: Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Thomas, McClean

Richmond: Cotchin, Martin, Deledio, Jackson, Ellis

Collingwood: Pendleberry, Swan, Beams, Ball, Sidebottom,

Sydney: Hanneberry, Jack, Kennedy, O'Keefe, McVeigh

Geelong: Selwood, Bartel, Johnson, Duncan, Kelly

Freo: Fyfe, Mundy, Barlow, Crowley, Mayne

Hawthorn: Mitchell, Lewis, Sewell, Burgoyne, Smith

On that list, even if Tyson is a gun I would say we still have the least impressive top line midfielders in the AFL, the rest of our team may be able to make up the difference on a lot of teams and we may bat deeper than some teams but I think this shows we still have a huge amount of work to do in terms of our midfield competing with top 8 teams.

Melbourne: N Jones, J. Viney, B Vince, D. Tyson and Viv Michie (from what i have seen), Cross will be more of a mentor.

In light of some people getting a bit excited about where we may finish next year and also because I have been in a list and chart making mood lately I thought it would be interesting to compare our top 5 mids against the top 5 of all other clubs. Obviously our midfield has been our weakness over the last few years with our spine looking strong this year. But quality midfields win games, particularly in modern footy. There will be dissagreements over who the top 5 at each club are and obviously depth is important, but in thinking about this I think it may reveal just how far back we are coming from.

Melbourne: N Jones, B Vince, D Tyson, D Cross, J Viney

GWS: C Ward, D Shiel, T Scully, Treloar, Greene

St Kilda: Hayes, Montagna, Steven, Armitage, Roberton

W Bulldogs: Griffen, Boyd, Cooney, Liberatore, Wallis

Brisbane: Rockliff, Rich, Redden, Adcock, Moloney

Gold Coast: Ablett, Swallow, O'Meara, Bennell, Hall

Adelaide: Dangerfield, Thompson, Sloane, Douglas, Van Berlo,

West Coast: Priddis, Masten, Selwood, Shuey, Gaff

North Melbourne: (Harvey?) Wells, Dal Santo, Bastinac, Cunnington, Ziebell,

Essendon: Watson, Goddard, Zaharakis, Stanton, Heppell

Port Adelaide: Boak, Hartlett, Cornes, Hartlett, Wines

Carlton: Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Thomas, McClean

Richmond: Cotchin, Martin, Deledio, Jackson, Ellis

Collingwood: Pendleberry, Swan, Beams, Ball, Sidebottom,

Sydney: Hanneberry, Jack, Kennedy, O'Keefe, McVeigh

Geelong: Selwood, Bartel, Johnson, Duncan, Kelly

Freo: Fyfe, Mundy, Barlow, Crowley, Mayne

Hawthorn: Mitchell, Lewis, Sewell, Burgoyne, Smith

On that list, even if Tyson is a gun I would say we still have the least impressive top line midfielders in the AFL, the rest of our team may be able to make up the difference on a lot of teams and we may bat deeper than some teams but I think this shows we still have a huge amount of work to do in terms of our midfield competing with top 8 teams.

Disagree, we have a better midfield (under Roos we will anyway) then alot of them.

Disagree, we have a better midfield (under Roos we will anyway) then alot of them.

Ok first of all our midfield will be better then this year but to say we have a better midfield then alot of them is laughable.. we are still inexperienc and lack a bit of depth. Give us another year or two of good trading and drafting under Roos then we laughing!

Btw Gold Coast have some serious midfield talent going. Add Jack Martin to that list is a very scary prospect.

Ok first of all our midfield will be better then this year but to say we have a better midfield then alot of them is laughable.. we are still inexperienc and lack a bit of depth. Give us another year or two of good trading and drafting under Roos then we laughing!

Btw Gold Coast have some serious midfield talent going. Add Jack Martin to that list is a very scary prospect.

Under Roosy i think we have a better midfield then some of them

And since when is Mayne a midfielder?

Disagree, we have a better midfield (under Roos we will anyway) then alot of them.

Prestia and Jack Martin are better than Hall.

N Jones 8.6
Trengove 7
Viney 8 (will be a 9 in the future)
Mckenzie 4
Evans 6
Bail 4
Kent 6
Toumpas 6 (will turn into a gun in the future(
M Jones 6
Barry 5

Cross 7

Michie 7 (future gun)

Vince 8

Tyson 7 (future gun)

Taggert 6 (get some games into him will be an 8 in no time)

Magner 5

Laughable ratings deeman.

Taggert a 6? The same as Matt Jones?

Our midfield just climbed out of the primordial ooze with the arrival of Tyson and Michie.

It is going to take a while, and we don't have the base ingredients yet either.

We are still going to be playing a number of the same strugglers that have got us this far...

Edited October 24, 201312 yr by rpfc

In reality the essence of whats just happened is that prior to this trade period we simply didnt have a midfield. We had bits of one but nothing cohesive or capable.

Now we have sufficient players to mould into something resembling a competent unit. Cue the maestro Stone and wave your wand.

We really have no idea how good or bad until they play. Now we have something where before there was next to nothing . Thats not to take away anything from the likes of Jones and Viney But two legged chairs dot work too well.

This is without doubt the major area of hopefully massive change in this team. We should present quite differently in 2014... but as to what ...well. Im happy to wait and watch.

Effective clearances should get a boost. The old adage, one we get is one they dont. Momentum of games change. The confidence of the unit ought to grow and affect games even more. Quite a few games in 2013 turned ugly when opponents got big runs on us. I think this will stop. With more able players to hand they ought to be able to slow this down, indeed turn it around. When games blow out its all over.. Keep scores closer and outcomes can sometimes become coin tosses.

With some quality injected into the middle those tasked currently to hit above weight can get back to their jobs in a more normalised pecking order. Its going to be fascinating to see how Stone changes things.

N Jones 8.6

Trengove 7

Viney 8 (will be a 9 in the future)

Mckenzie 4

Evans 6

Bail 4

Kent 6

Toumpas 6 (will turn into a gun in the future(

M Jones 6

Barry 5

Cross 7

Michie 7 (future gun)

Vince 8

Tyson 7 (future gun)

Taggert 6 (get some games into him will be an 8 in no time)

Magner 5

After reading your ratings I'd be keeping that future gun handy as you will be shooting yourself in your future foot.

With the loss of Colin Sylvia and the addition of three new recruits it appears our mid field is about the same as it was in the 2013 season. I can not see the massive improvements that are needed at this stage.

IMO Vince is similar to Colin Sylvia if not a little better, Tyson has never completed a pre season (Other injury prone player), Michie found it hard to get a senior game at Freo.

In reality the essence of whats just happened is that prior to this trade period we simply didnt have a midfield. We had bits of one but nothing cohesive or capable.

Now we have sufficient players to mould into something resembling a competent unit. Cue the maestro Stone and wave your wand.

We really have no idea how good or bad until they play. Now we have something where before there was next to nothing . Thats not to take away anything from the likes of Jones and Viney But two legged chairs dot work too well.

This is without doubt the major area of hopefully massive change in this team. We should present quite differently in 2014... but as to what ...well. Im happy to wait and watch.

Effective clearances should get a boost. The old adage, one we get is one they dont. Momentum of games change. The confidence of the unit ought to grow and affect games even more. Quite a few games in 2013 turned ugly when opponents got big runs on us. I think this will stop. With more able players to hand they ought to be able to slow this down, indeed turn it around. When games blow out its all over.. Keep scores closer and outcomes can sometimes become coin tosses.

With some quality injected into the middle those tasked currently to hit above weight can get back to their jobs in a more normalised pecking order. Its going to be fascinating to see how Stone changes things.

One must also take into account pick #9 who presumably will be a top midfield gun (albeit not in 2014 but watching Ollie Wines this year you cannot discount the possiblility)!

With the loss of Colin Sylvia and the addition of three new recruits it appears our mid field is about the same as it was in the 2013 season. I can not see the massive improvements that are needed at this stage.

IMO Vince is similar to Colin Sylvia if not a little better, Tyson has never completed a pre season (Other injury prone player), Michie found it hard to get a senior game at Freo.

Sorry frog, cant help but disagree somewhat

I see the notion of Sylvia as a loss as an oxymoron. He was as much a liability as he was gifted. He added to a game as much as he stifled it. His value was just above zero ( for mine ) in a game. He didnt really add value to the midfield he was just there. He wasnt alone either . Vince isnt a replacement for Sylvia in this regard hes a giant upgrade. We lacked some maturity in the guts Cross will fill this role admirably in my estimation. he wont be fazed, he will calm things when needed. He also takes pressure off of Jones. If Trenners if fit and up then that alone is a plus over 13. Tyson seems determined ( already ) to impact. Seems a bit of a bull at a gate. I think he'll really stamp himself on the team.

Jordie can stick to negating.. he does this quite ok. He can leave the ball skills to others . Toumpas will be better for another preseason. have No idea what Michie will or wont be but he wasnt there in 13 . We lacked 3-4 able bodies this year. Weve got them. We must be improved just for that.

Add in #9 at some point and its another element. i really hope Roos goes for less shiny and more able. I fess to being intrigued as to what Watts might become as a tall running mid. he is immensely talented but hasnt jelled ( to date ) As a skilled outside type who can land a ball on a 10c piece , could be interesting.

I think the midfield will benefit form some players playing through it whilst not being it per se. Cue Grimes. I like Garland at FB and Frawley at CHB and amongst the reasons is Chip imposing himself by coming into the midfield in play scenarios has promise and excitement. with , hopefully less game pressure on the backline , their offensive capabilities will come more into play.

Viney will relish support as will Jones. The other support bit players can be just that, relief hitters , nothing special.

But the magic of out bettering is George Stone.I really dont think we've been coached particularly well in the guts. I know you need cattle, but the decision making and direction taken at times was beyond confusing to be laughable.

i reckon we'll get our hands on the ball at least 25-30% more and our efficiency with it to lift 50%. We now have some players with ability to link through the guts. Massive improvement potential.

Just wait , you'll be hearing "Jones, to Viney handballs to Dyson who immediately pumps it to Vince as he runs to the arc ...GOAL"

I reckon we now HAVE a midfield where we had only a bit of one before. Thats a huge improvement for mine.

If Vince has one of his better years and Jones stays in form then we will already be ahead of 2013.

Tyson, Viney, Toumpas, Michie and Trengove. If these guys step up this year, we'll win games. I have high hopes that

Trengove will come good under Roos. He was fantastic in his first two seasons under Bailey.

What stands out, as it has for many years, is the lack of a genuine midfield star. I can't help but get excited about Tyson....

Sorry frog, cant help but disagree somewhat

I see the notion of Sylvia as a loss as an oxymoron. He was as much a liability as he was gifted. He added to a game as much as he stifled it. His value was just above zero ( for mine ) in a game. He didnt really add value to the midfield he was just there. He wasnt alone either . Vince isnt a replacement for Sylvia in this regard hes a giant upgrade. We lacked some maturity in the guts Cross will fill this role admirably in my estimation. he wont be fazed, he will calm things when needed. He also takes pressure off of Jones. If Trenners if fit and up then that alone is a plus over 13. Tyson seems determined ( already ) to impact. Seems a bit of a bull at a gate. I think he'll really stamp himself on the team.

Jordie can stick to negating.. he does this quite ok. He can leave the ball skills to others . Toumpas will be better for another preseason. have No idea what Michie will or wont be but he wasnt there in 13 . We lacked 3-4 able bodies this year. Weve got them. We must be improved just for that.

Add in #9 at some point and its another element. i really hope Roos goes for less shiny and more able. I fess to being intrigued as to what Watts might become as a tall running mid. he is immensely talented but hasnt jelled ( to date ) As a skilled outside type who can land a ball on a 10c piece , could be interesting.

I think the midfield will benefit form some players playing through it whilst not being it per se. Cue Grimes. I like Garland at FB and Frawley at CHB and amongst the reasons is Chip imposing himself by coming into the midfield in play scenarios has promise and excitement. with , hopefully less game pressure on the backline , their offensive capabilities will come more into play.

Viney will relish support as will Jones. The other support bit players can be just that, relief hitters , nothing special.

But the magic of out bettering is George Stone.I really dont think we've been coached particularly well in the guts. I know you need cattle, but the decision making and direction taken at times was beyond confusing to be laughable.

i reckon we'll get our hands on the ball at least 25-30% more and our efficiency with it to lift 50%. We now have some players with ability to link through the guts. Massive improvement potential.

Just wait , you'll be hearing "Jones, to Viney handballs to Dyson who immediately pumps it to Vince as he runs to the arc ...GOAL"

I reckon we now HAVE a midfield where we had only a bit of one before. Thats a huge improvement for mine.

Disagree away BB as I hope you are right not me, but after the Neeld years I trust nothing but actual results and will challenge what I believe to be wrong.

It will be the 2014 season and beyond which shows which one of us is right.

Do we have Cross yet as he not listed as a recruit on the MFC web site? That said he was not playing regular footy for the Dogs in 2013 anyway.

It was the MFC website which stated Vince was an equal replacement for Sylvia, although one player is not going to turn the ship wreck that is our mid field around.

I do agree on paper our mid field has improved slightly, but you don't play AFL on paper.

My prediction is 4 to 6 wins in 2014 many be up to 8 if we can keep injury free with key players.

Cross was just another mid, an older one , at a club who are blessed with a good midfield and had the luxury of moving Cross on. If we were so blessed we probably would to but we arent. Neeld's stance seemed to be defend, defend, defend. and it never really ventured past that. Cross's signing ought to be verified in week or so

Dont take too much from what or club or any puts on a public forum. They are hardly likely to bag anyone etc. There's a degree of pc about all that. Ive had whispers that no one, well few ( @club) were really that sad to Sylvia go but would have been ok had he stayed but would have been treated very differently, his grace period was up.

in reality Col was never a mid...Bernie is . So we're improved for no other reason.. A mid for a non mid

Edited October 25, 201312 yr by beelzebub

Cross was just another mid, an older one , at a club who are blessed with a good midfield and had the luxury of moving Cross on. If we were so blessed we probably would to but we arent. Neeld's stance seemed to be defend, defend, defend. and it never really ventured past that. Cross's signing ought to be verified in week or so

Dont take too much from what or club or any puts on a public forum. They are hardly likely to bag anyone etc. There's a degree of pc about all that. Ive had whispers that no one, well few ( @club) were really that sad to Sylvia go but would have been ok had he stayed but would have been treated very differently, his grace period was up.

in reality Col was never a mid...Bernie . So we're improved for no other reason.. A mid for a non mid

LOL in Roos we must trust

LOL in Roos we must trust

pretty much

I do feel more inclined to do so than previous

pretty much

I do feel more inclined to do so than previous

I am cautiously optimistic that our midfield will be improved with the inclusions - Jones will keep doing what Jones does. I am hopeful of natural progression from Toumpas and Viney. I put Tyson in that category of natural progression with the comment that he has had injury concerns but was a highly rated mid that was taken with a very high draft pick .( so was Sylvia and Morton - eww) . Cross and Vince are better than any mids we had on the field last year ( save Jones). I have been massively underwhelmed by Trengove but saw enough in his first year that gives me hope that he will be more effective than the last two seasons. I haven't seen enough of Michie to pass judgement.

Given my reverse pessimism I have to predict we cannot be as woeful through the midfield as last year

Last year I rated our midfield as the worst I have ever seen.

Next season I rate it only slightly better remembering the following:

• Cross is an older work horse. I love this type of player but we all need to remember he is three years past his prime
• Vince is a show pony who like Sylvia picks and chooses the games he plays. Yes he has a great highlights package and can hit a target on the [censored] but he is up and down like a yo yo.
• Michie has played what, half a game? Amazingly is already in most peoples best 22
• Tyson has played what, half a season? Has been injured and is used to being smacked by 100 points each game anyway.
• Toump and Viney are still boys and people continually expect way too much from them.
• Pick 9 will be a boy
• I adore and love Nate Jones and yes he would get a game for every other team in the league but would be most teams third, or occasionally second best midfielder.

Our midfield will take three years to fix.

Prove me wrong Roosy, please prove me wrong!!

Last year I rated our midfield as the worst I have ever seen.

Next season I rate it only slightly better remembering the following:

• Cross is an older work horse. I love this type of player but we all need to remember he is three years past his prime
• Vince is a show pony who like Sylvia picks and chooses the games he plays. Yes he has a great highlights package and can hit a target on the [censored] but he is up and down like a yo yo.
• Michie has played what, half a game? Amazingly is already in most peoples best 22
• Tyson has played what, half a season? Has been injured and is used to being smacked by 100 points each game anyway.
• Toump and Viney are still boys and people continually expect way too much from them.
• Pick 9 will be a boy
• I adore and love Nate Jones and yes he would get a game for every other team in the league but would be most teams third, or occasionally second best midfielder.

Our midfield will take three years to fix.

Prove me wrong Roosy, please prove me wrong!!

I agree, we still have the worst midfield. The most Roos could do is close the gap somewhat, and he has done that. I believe we will have a significantly better midfield though mainly due to Vince and Cross, helping to make blokes like Viney, Toumpas, Tyson, Taggert fight and earn their spot. The competition just increased significantly.

If Gawn can take another step up, we may jstart ot compete at least with the lower teams and not be pushed aside in the midfield.

Edited October 25, 201312 yr by Bay Riffin

While not directly related, I reckon the mids will enjoy looking forward and seeing Hogan and Clark leading toward them, or knowing if they have to bang it forward those boys (and Howe) are a good chance of marking it...

A more solid midfield will generate benefits at both ends as well.