I am sure most of you will disagree and it doesn't bring me any pleasure to say this, but I believe our Captains are not up to the standard. Not only should they lose the captaincy but I would trade both. They are both courageous hardworking footballers but they are not up to the standard that will take us up the ladder. Tough times call for tough decisions and it is definitely time for that at Melbourne. There are others that should also go including a couple of all Australians who have been on the slide and not up to the standard for four years. Watts is another and there are others. The main reason we are bottom of the pile is that our players are the worst.

dAgree with the removal of Captaincy, don't agree with the trades.

New coach to give the Captaincy to Jones, or even perhaps to Dawes and allow the 2 young kids to flourish.

Keep in mind Grimes has just come back from injury and was solid before he was i injured, averaging quite well in disposals (and in Supercoach ).

And i feel Trenners is actually improving game by game and becoming that impact type player in a Bartel like mold. He is only 21 too. .

_{Yep, absolutely agree, in fact the whole list is crap so let's delist every single one of them and start again. The AFL are going to love this :thumbsup:}

Our leaders say all the politically correct things.

But we need leaders to use their Gonads and tell the playing group exactly what they are.

Can you imagine our good past club captains putting up with that insipid shite week n week out.

What a rediculously stupid idea

"we have no leadership"

I know how to fix this.

trade our two best leaders.

good logic.

possibly the stupidest thing ive ever read.

Agree on getting a new Captain. No Captains, just Captain.

Dawes or Clark. They are leaders, experienced, both come from other clubs (which I think is a main factor) and are both keen to turn this club around.

Grimes is one of the best blokes at the MFC, but I think both Grimesy and Trenners need to just go back to being players and focus on their footy. They need to remain at the MFC. These 2 will make a difference.

Grimes will easily become captain again after whoever and he has another 3-4 years under his belt.

Agree on getting a new Captain. No Captains, just Captain.

Dawes or Clark. They are leaders, experienced, both come from other clubs (which I think is a main factor) and are both keen to turn this club around.

Grimes is one of the best blokes at the MFC, but I think both Grimesy and Trenners need to just go back to being players and focus on their footy. They need to remain at the MFC. These 2 will make a difference.

Grimes will easily become captain again after whoever and he has another 3-4 years under his belt.

There's no point in having a captain who can't even get onto the field (Clark). Grimes should remain, Trengove a deputy or just leadership group and Jones/Dawes should be the main man - either co-captain with Grimes or stand alone.

When Grimes cost Melbourne a goal on Saturday when the game was up for grabs, I fell right off his bandwagon. Nothing made me more frustrated on Saturday than seeing our captains make the worst mistakes of anyone else in the side. It was a terrible display by our captains, and neither stood up when both were needed.

The great thing about "average players, great captains" is that, even without the polish, they still contribute and stand up when needed. Maxwell is a good example. Very ordinary footballer, but has the patience and complacency to hit a target when under stress.

Grimes' errors on Saturday were often under no pressure, direct passes that should have hit the target. They were either intercepted by a Giants player nearby that Grimes didn't see (poor vision), or his kick was smothered because the urgency was lacking (story of the day for the team).

Trengove on the other hand is completely gone. Truly astounding how much pace he has lost. An indictment on the football department. Forget Watts: Trengove is now officially our most poorly developed player at the club. He's visibly REGRESSED. At least with Watts he's been consistently disappointing over 5 seasons.

Edited August 6, 201311 yr by Cudi_420

Trengove on the other hand is completely gone. Truly astounding how much pace he has lost.

Yep. He chased a Giants player flat out on the wing and didn't even get close, in fact I think the gap lengthened.

Then surprisingly, Pedersons's chase was a lot faster. He almost caught his Giants opponent.

Just give it Jack Viney already so after a couple of years if he's not completely tearing it up and in Brownlow form we can blame the burden of Captaincy on him.

I expect so much more from Picks 2 and 14.

Glad to see the tide is turning on here because they can't kick, they can't run, and they're as slow as a wet week.

At this stage I still don't know whether they're inside or outside. Their bodies don't seem any bigger than when they arrived. They're not big enough to compete on the inside and they're not fast enough to do anything on the outside.

Maybe we have to build them up ala Luke Ball and hope they can become combative, inside, clearance players, otherwise I don't know where these two are going.

Yep. He chased a Giants player flat out on the wing and didn't even get close, in fact I think the gap lengthened.

Then surprisingly, Pedersons's chase was a lot faster. He almost caught his Giants opponent.

Pederson's got pace. What he lacks is a football brain.

I think using the bargaining chip of the captaincy might be our best bet of getting a high profile experienced mid, say to Dale Thomas for example, how would you like to be captain of the oldest club in the comp during it's revival?

the idea of trading them is abit silly imo, if we get a great offer it needs to be considered, neither have earned the right to be untouchable but they're both young and have bucket loads of ability so lets back ourselves to get them right and make them gun players,

they probably are decent enough leaders but in tough times you don't need to throw the weight of the world on the shoulders of kids when you have Jones, Clark, Garland and Frawley who i am sure would all make good captains.

This is unfortunate for us all and I take no pleasure in putting this in writing, but the two of them are not up to the standard that will take us forward as a club. Both players are extremely slow, their kicking lacks penetration and speed. There form has been so bad for so long they should be dropped. In my opinion they haven't even proven themselves as AFL footballers yet. What Needle was doing in making them captains was a disaster and just emphasises that he had no idea what was needed. In Grimes's case he has always telegraphed what he is going to do and so his disposals get cut off regularly. Any half decent footballer can see this and I am sure a lot of other clubs know this. He should never be played in defence as his switch is to obvious. I could go on but quite simply these two boys are not going to turn into the superstars you are all hoping they become. like Jack Watts you have already seen what they have got and what they are going to give you. You can usually tell a gun player very quickly, within a few games in fact. You can see it in everything they do. You shouldn't have to wait five years! we have been doing this for far to long at Melbourne. We have got to stop developing players at Melbourne. We have to start drafting and recruiting the best players there are. As for them being our best leaders, that is a joke. You lead by example and their form is so bad and so are unable to lead. Nathan Jones is our finest leader, head over the ball, bottom of every pack, never plays a bad one. He has been excellent since his first game. You could see what he had then and you know what he is going to give you every week. We have to get tougher at Melbourne, if you can play you can stay otherwise go away.

I am sure most of you will disagree and it doesn't bring me any pleasure to say this, but I believe our Captains are not up to the standard. Not only should they lose the captaincy but I would trade both. They are both courageous hardworking footballers but they are not up to the standard that will take us up the ladder. Tough times call for tough decisions and it is definitely time for that at Melbourne. There are others that should also go including a couple of all Australians who have been on the slide and not up to the standard for four years. Watts is another and there are others. The main reason we are bottom of the pile is that our players are the worst.

If you want to see the love you'll get around here, go have a read of the Nathan Joness captian for 2013 thread.

It's a real dooosy and will give you an insight into what you are up against.

Should we strip Grimes of Trengove of the captaincy? Absolutely.

Nathan Jones should be captain and shoud've always been captain.

I would never have sacked Green as captain or Jimmy Mac before him. That said, since Neeld did get rid of Green, Jones should have surely been looked at or Rivers, or Maloney, or Davey or any of the more senior guys. To by pass all of these guys for two young men that haven't even proved themselves is a joke and has destroyed the moral of the joint.

I will check out the Nate Jones thread, I bet its a doosey

Agree on getting a new Captain. No Captains, just Captain.

Dawes or Clark. They are leaders, experienced, both come from other clubs (which I think is a main factor) and are both keen to turn this club around.

Grimes is one of the best blokes at the MFC, but I think both Grimesy and Trenners need to just go back to being players and focus on their footy. They need to remain at the MFC. These 2 will make a difference.

Grimes will easily become captain again after whoever and he has another 3-4 years under his belt.

I agree go back to the twos and earn their spots

I expect so much more from Picks 2 and 14.

Glad to see the tide is turning on here because they can't kick, they can't run, and they're as slow as a wet week.

At this stage I still don't know whether they're inside or outside. Their bodies don't seem any bigger than when they arrived. They're not big enough to compete on the inside and they're not fast enough to do anything on the outside.

Maybe we have to build them up ala Luke Ball and hope they can become combative, inside, clearance players, otherwise I don't know where these two are going.

I believe they haven't made it and wont. We need to move them on

I certainly agree that they had the burden of captaincy thrust upon them far too early in their careers, and that together with the MFC's great penchant for poor development means that they have not progressed to what may be their capabilities. And surely Trengove must be carrying an injury such as OP - surely.

IMO Trengove needs a full medical workup, from a specialist outsider not a club doctor, to see just what ails him and to guide just how best to manage his recovery.

Of course it would be a temporary embarrassment to the young men were they to be relieved of the captaincy, but it must happen for their good and the good of the club.

I would promote Nathan Jones who leads by example.

I certainly agree that they had the burden of captaincy thrust upon them far too early in their careers, and that together with the MFC's great penchant for poor development means that they have not progressed to what may be their capabilities. And surely Trengove must be carrying an injury such as OP - surely.

IMO Trengove needs a full medical workup, from a specialist outsider not a club doctor, to see just what ails him and to guide just how best to manage his recovery.

Of course it would be a temporary embarrassment to the young men were they to be relieved of the captaincy, but it must happen for their good and the good of the club.

I would promote Nathan Jones who leads by example.

It's hard to say, it may be OP, may be the stress fracture and he may have just put on weight and lost his zip, the lack of information given to the public when as you say he is clearly not right is just going to promote people to come up with theories.

I believe they haven't made it and wont. We need to move them on

Perhaps you should listen to your own advice "Frosty Demon".

I believe they haven't made it and wont. We need to move them on

I can understand people suggesting they should be relinquished of the captaincy but to suggest we should trade them out is ridiculous.

Grimes was arguably our most consistent performer at the start of the season before his injury, and at 24 is about to enter the prime of his career. Just really needs to continue working on his disposal.

I think people often forget that Trengove is still only 21. Yes he has struggled the past 2 seasons but he is starting to get some consistency into his game and will only improve with a full pre-season under this belt and some more experienced mids around him - which if our recruiting staff have half a brain will be brought in during the off season. I really believe he will make it - and I think its a bloody big call to write him off when he is still so young.

I can understand people suggesting they should be relinquished of the captaincy but to suggest we should trade them out is ridiculous.

Grimes was arguably our most consistent performer at the start of the season before his injury, and at 24 is about to enter the prime of his career. Just really needs to continue working on his disposal.

I think people often forget that Trengove is still only 21. Yes he has struggled the past 2 seasons but he is starting to get some consistency into his game and will only improve with a full pre-season under this belt and some more experienced mids around him - which if our recruiting staff have half a brain will be brought in during the off season. I really believe he will make it - and I think its a bloody big call to write him off when he is still so young.

I think the thing is he isn't far off the mark considering he's averaging 20 touches and 5 tackles a game atm, if he had a full preseason he would get to more contests and probably get up to 25-30 touches, he needs to work on his kicking and tidy up a little bit but he is solid enough now,

firmly believe being captain is doing trenners no favours,

Grimes on the other hand showed early this year he is a very good player.