Theres a subtle difference between players playing through the midfield as course of play as opposed to players being the boiler room type mids instigating clearances and such. Neither Trengove nor Grimes are the latter and thats a role theyve been pushed into

result...epic fail

I respectfully disagree, BB. You only have to look at Trengove's U18 video to see he was clearly drafted as a 'boiler room type mid', as you put it. With his lack of anaerobic and aerobic power, he's simply not a chance of winning consistent clearances at the moment. I haven't given up hope of JT becoming a solid clearance player. Where I think he'll flourish will be on the outside. He's still young and seemingly crippled by OP. I don't hold the same hope for Grimes, but his ball winning ability tells me he could one day be suited to the 'boiler room'.

I respectfully disagree, BB. You only have to look at Trengove's U18 video to see he was clearly drafted as a 'boiler room type mid', as you put it. With his lack of anaerobic and aerobic power, he's simply not a chance of winning consistent clearances at the moment. I haven't given up hope of JT becoming a solid clearance player. Where I think he'll flourish will be on the outside. He's still young and seemingly crippled by OP. I don't hold the same hope for Grimes, but his ball winning ability tells me he could one day be suited to the 'boiler room'.

Sorry AF but I agree with bb

I am sick of hearing they look down. How about showing it on the ground where it actually matters. Craig is kidding himself if he thought our effort was there. They were outrun by a bunch of kids whilst they jogged the lines of the square. Our effort and execution is the worst I have seen of any side over a season in my 38 years of watching football.

David Misson has been there for 2 years now yet they don't look to run any better (either gut-running to make options for teammates or running out quarters and games) than before he got there.

Just one more pre season people and EVERYTHING will be better....yep just more more summer.....one more summer....one.......

How were we ever going to win this one? It reminded me of Neelds first game for us against Brisbane where there was no way we could win just kicking it high up along thenboundary line. I watched today's game on TV and all we did in the firt half was pick the ball up and kick it long into the forward line. No system, no thinking, no skill, no running. I mean where is the game plan. We could never win this one with Craig's plan. I am thinking Neil Craig may be as much of the problem as Neeld ever was. The two of them together were probably toxic.

And who was up forward? Gawn seemed to be the main target with Watts in the first quarter also. Neither of them are strong pack marks and once the ball hit the ground GWS ran it out with ease because neither of them can chase to save themselves.

I said back in 2011 when Bailey was still coach but we have the biggest group of lazy and stupid players I have ever seen and nothing has changed.

The mind boggles if Ross Lyon had Jack Watts.

Hes got Zac Dawson.....

Its not the coaches is it? Some players dont care. Its time the players took some responsibilty. Jones has no trouble trying every single week. Why cant the rest of them ?

I reckon it is the coaches

They have to make the players care about their performance they have to instill some reasons that the players understand as to why they must use their skills and each others The Coaches have to provide game plans and strategies built around the skills of the players and against the opposition the coaches have to provide training programs that instill practices that become instinctive into the players the coaches should be watching other sides playing and instruct the players what is required the coaches should have the respect of players who will then do what is expected.

I reckon it is the coaches

They have to make the players care about their performance they have to instill some reasons that the players understand as to why they must use their skills and each others The Coaches have to provide game plans and strategies built around the skills of the players and against the opposition the coaches have to provide training programs that instill practices that become instinctive into the players the coaches should be watching other sides playing and instruct the players what is required the coaches should have the respect of players who will then do what is expected.

The majority of this group is on its fourth coach in just over 24 months and the results only seem to get worse.

It is not the coach.

The playing group is not good enough.

Why is that so hard to accept.

Hes got Zac Dawson.....

One thing about Lyon, he won't waste tearing his remaining hair out waiting for Watts to continue his arrested development if he had him. Either he becomes the star he was touted to be quick or out the door quick smart.

be VERY careful what you wish for

Come to Tassie..lol We will get all the help North Melbourne and on a larger scale Hawthorn are getting, Government "donations" , 10,000 members and be able to play at least half of our games at the MCG... What more could you ask for ??? Hawthorn have won a premiership since coming here .. and they have never really looked back... Must be something in it... ??

(tongue in cheek).. I have almost had enough of the MFC.. But I dare say I will suffer a little longer .. Have supported the Dees for around 50 Years ... Lowest ebb I can remember right now... Sadly

I reckon it is the coaches

They have to make the players care about their performance they have to instill some reasons that the players understand as to why they must use their skills and each others The Coaches have to provide game plans and strategies built around the skills of the players and against the opposition the coaches have to provide training programs that instill practices that become instinctive into the players the coaches should be watching other sides playing and instruct the players what is required the coaches should have the respect of players who will then do what is expected.

I always thought (throughout my life) that I had to care and develop my OWN performances.. Not have anyone MAKE me care ?? Weak ??? Personal pride , dignity and character have taught me to think like this... I am proud to admit it....

Come to Tassie..lol We will get all the help North Melbourne and on a larger scale Hawthorn are getting, Government "donations" , 10,000 members and be able to play at least half of our games at the MCG... What more could you ask for ??? Hawthorn have won a premiership since coming here .. and they have never really looked back... Must be something in it... ??

(tongue in cheek).. I have almost had enough of the MFC.. But I dare say I will suffer a little longer .. Have supported the Dees for around 50 Years ... Lowest ebb I can remember right now... Sadly

Similar to me soxy

We had some very ordinary sides in the seventies but I never remember us being beaten so convincely every week.

At least back then we were in games for most of the game and got run over in the last quarter.

This team over the last two years is seldom in the game at quarter time.

The teams of 2012 and 3 are IMO easily the worst teams the MFC have put on the field since the early 1950's

Similar to me soxy

We had some very ordinary sides in the seventies but I never remember us being beaten so convincely every week.

At least back then we were in games for most of the game and got run over in the last quarter.

This team over the last two years is seldom in the game at quarter time.

The teams of 2012 and 3 are IMO easily the worst teams the MFC have put on the field since the early 1950's

The reality is OD, we have been shite for 50 years.

The reality is OD, we have been shite for 50 years.

Very seldom even close to this level Bbo

The reason for no reply to you is contained withing the level and content of your post.

Thanks Stuie.

The reason for no reply to you is contained withing the level and content of your post.

Hope you brushed your teeth before bed.

That's a terrible habit Stu.

You should visit the Vet.

I reckon it is the coaches

They have to make the players care about their performance they have to instill some reasons that the players understand as to why they must use their skills and each others The Coaches have to provide game plans and strategies built around the skills of the players and against the opposition the coaches have to provide training programs that instill practices that become instinctive into the players the coaches should be watching other sides playing and instruct the players what is required the coaches should have the respect of players who will then do what is expected.

I think the coaches have a lot to do with it, but also the players need to take responsibility for their effort. It is difficult to pass a relevant comment on who's to blame I believe, unless you are privy to coaching structures and strategies.

I regularly see the opposition mids have 2 -3 quick handpasses at centre bounces that end with an opposition player metres in the clear streaming towards their forward 50. We have 2 or 3 handpasses that end with a scrum or kick/handball sidewards or backwards. Is that a deficient midfield strategy or lack of effort by the players ? Probably a bit of both in my opinion. It must also be disheartening to be streaming downfield and you receive a handpass at your feet from a short distance, causing you to pause and try to pick the ball up under increasing pressure with no support as Garland had to do from Watts on the weekend.

We do need to be smarter and not just after the ball like a group of schoolkids. It just easily creates a loose man and then we get punished. I don't think running 2-3 metres behind a player puts too much pressure on them either. It would be good to see some urgency, spirited tight marking and intelligent handballs to players in the free, not players that are about to get slammed.

I'm tired of watching the same crap each week.....as I guess we all are.