OUT: Abbott IN: Turnbull

[Hannibal 5,814]

No boats or deaths for 6 weeks now.

A good thing, right ?

[P-man 13,366]

Morrison was asked, directly, in the Senate Enquiry: "How many boats have entered Australian waterrs since December 19?"

Morrison: "Again, Senator, that would go beyond what our procedures are."

i.e. that's an "operational" matter.

If he refuses to answer a straightforward question about the number of boat arrivals in a Senate Enquiry, then he will continue to be accused of secrecy and any trumping in The Australian of a January free of deaths and/or boat arrivals is frankly not worth the paper its written on.

[dpositive 1,663]

No boats or deaths for 6 weeks now.

A good thing, right ?

Yes so why won't the minister show the evidence of that and why are we turning them back?

The fact we are out there turning them back tells me that there are still boats.

We don't know if there are any drowning as we don't know, gosh the navy says they don't even know where they are themselves so may not know that people have drowned.

[DemonFrog 1,354]

[Hannibal 5,814]

Yes so why won't the minister show the evidence of that and why are we turning them back?

The fact we are out there turning them back tells me that there are still boats.

We don't know if there are any drowning as we don't know, gosh the navy says they don't even know where they are themselves so may not know that people have drowned.

Faced with success where they only failed. Labor and the Greens are reduced to demanding the Abbott Government reveal its secrets to journalists and the people smugglers. It’s a strategy that makes them look both stupid and spiteful - not to mention reckless:

The head of Customs, Michael Pezzullo, told the inquiry that withholding information also helps keep Australian officials safe at sea.

”We frankly don’t give a damn about the media cycle and what’s going to be said on [ABC show] Q&A; and all the rest of it,” he said.

Excellent strategy. As it happens, it should be adopted by Labor itself. If Q&A is for it, Labor should almost certainly be against.

The above is from Bolt's blog. I love Bolt. You can please yourself.

[Guest]

Morrison was asked, directly, in the Senate Enquiry: "How many boats have entered Australian waterrs since December 19?"

Morrison: "Again, Senator, that would go beyond what our procedures are."

i.e. that's an "operational" matter.

If he refuses to answer a straightforward question about the number of boat arrivals in a Senate Enquiry, then he will continue to be accused of secrecy and any trumping in The Australian of a January free of deaths and/or boat arrivals is frankly not worth the paper its written on.

When people tell me 'we are becoming a police state', I usually ask them if they have lived in a dictatorship. Because I have, and while a lot of the worst aspects of that dictatorship were hidden from me because of me being a foreigner and being unable to speak the local language, I usually tell them we aren't even getting close.

However, this kind of stuff troubles me and is evidence of a government that is entirely unaccountable for it's actions. It reminds me in someways of totalitarian communist regimes. Of course, Australian citizens aren't subject to this kind of stuff but it's bloody worrying that people are shipped off to camps in other countries which journalists cannot access and that details of an incredibly controversial and incredibly harsh government program can't even be revealed to the general public.

What has happened so far in the name of 'border protection' has been nothing short of a disgrace. I pray that in years to come that more disturbing information about the ways in which asylum seekers are being treated now doesn't come to light. It's heartbreaking what is happening now but I have a fear that what we are allowed to know may just be the tip of the iceberg.

[Hannibal 5,814]

It's heartbreaking what is happening now but I have a fear that what we are allowed to know may just be the tip of the iceberg.

Leftists are a fascinating case study. No boats or deaths in 6 weeks, yet it's "heartbreaking what is happening now". You ought be ashamed. You'd rather be proven right than save lives at sea. How disgraceful of you.

Did we hear a word from you over the Rudd, Gillard, Rudd years when the flood gates opened and thousand of lives were lost ?

Edited February 2, 2014 by Hannibal

[Earl Hood 6,082]

Leftists are a fascinating case study. No boats or deaths in 6 weeks, yet it's "heartbreaking what is happening now". You ought be ashamed. You'd rather be proven right than save lives at sea. How disgraceful of you.

Did we hear a word from you over the Rudd, Gillard, Rudd years when the flood gates opened and thousand of lives were lost ?

Thousands?

[hardtack 10,514]

Leftists are a fascinating case study. No boats or deaths in 6 weeks, yet it's "heartbreaking what is happening now". You ought be ashamed. You'd rather be proven right than save lives at sea. How disgraceful of you.

Did we hear a word from you over the Rudd, Gillard, Rudd years when the flood gates opened and thousand of lives were lost ?

ThousandS? (emphasis on the plural). I believe it is a total of approx 1500, 400 of which were in the Howard years and 1100 since 2009. No it should not happen and yes, we should be arranging safe passage for these people from Indonesia prior to processing (we are signatories, Indonesia are not).

[Guest]

ThousandS? (emphasis on the plural). I believe it is a total of approx 1500, 400 of which were in the Howard years and 1100 since 2009. No it should not happen and yes, we should be arranging safe passage for these people from Indonesia prior to processing (we are signatories, Indonesia are not).

Groan... Even on ignore, I have to read his rubbish (BenHur, not you hardtack). May I ask again if you do have to reply to him (at least on this forum, he is less obnoxious on the football forum), don't quote him. Can we get a more comprehensive ignore function? I don't mind debate but this guy just gets personal with everyone.

Try your act on someone else, simple fisherman. They ain't biting and I'm sick of busting you up on the facts. You can repeat the same thing over and over, ad nasuseum yet it still doesn't make you correct.

You got a page full of my beliefs that were backed up with roughly 7 pages of facts and statistics which was apparently 'all opinion and theory' and 'waffle'. It's obvious you are a devotee of Andrew Bolt as that is exactly the same tactic he uses on his blog when a left wing (or sane) poster sneaks through and exposes any one of his arguments. I'm still waiting for a response to my initial point. Until you can come up with a response to that, I will consider anything you say lightweight.

Oh and for everyone else.

Three Asylum Seekers Dead After Boat Turn Back

I found it troubling that in the actual news.com.au article that the actual reporting of the deaths was downgraded to small print at the end of the article.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Colin B. Flaubert

[DemonFrog 1,354]

I admire you HT but don't you feel like its talking to a brick wall.

The guys is not going to listen to a word anyone says that is against his world view.

I agree with CBF as I block the guy months ago and can only see his posts in a quote box.

Its up to you TH but I would recommend not to empower his rants.

But if you like the challenge then go for it!

[mauriesy 7,261]

Rightists are also a fascinating case study. They sprinkle labels like 'leftist', 'warmist' and 'politically correct' around like confetti.

[hardtack 10,514]

I admire you HT but don't you feel like its talking to a brick wall.

The guys is not going to listen to a word anyone says that is against his world view.

I agree with CBF as I block the guy months ago and can only see his posts in a quote box.

Its up to you TH but I would recommend not to empower his rants.

But if you like the challenge then go for it!

You're probably right DF, but I guess I'm one of those fish that is attracted to a nice big shiny lure... the disappointing this is that like most shiny lures, the fish quickly discovers that there is little substance or nourishment, but by then it's too late... he's hooked. Anyway, I will do my best to get unhooked and let the fisherman continue his trolling without my encouragement.

Edited February 3, 2014 by hardtack

[daisycutter 29,604]

Rightists are also a fascinating case study. They sprinkle labels like 'leftist', 'warmist' and 'politically correct' around like confetti.

maurie, i don't think anyone has a mortgage on labels

there may be more labels around than confetti but no shortage of people from all persuasions willing to use them

[Hannibal 5,814]

Groan... Even on ignore, I have to read his rubbish (BenHur, not you hardtack). May I ask again if you do have to reply to him (at least on this forum, he is less obnoxious on the football forum), don't quote him. Can we get a more comprehensive ignore function? I don't mind debate but this guy just gets personal with everyone.

Try your act on someone else, simple fisherman. They ain't biting and I'm sick of busting you up on the facts. You can repeat the same thing over and over, ad nasuseum yet it still doesn't make you correct.

You got a page full of my beliefs that were backed up with roughly 7 pages of facts and statistics which was apparently 'all opinion and theory' and 'waffle'. It's obvious you are a devotee of Andrew Bolt as that is exactly the same tactic he uses on his blog when a left wing (or sane) poster sneaks through and exposes any one of his arguments. I'm still waiting for a response to my initial point. Until you can come up with a response to that, I will consider anything you say lightweight.

Oh and for everyone else.

Three Asylum Seekers Dead After Boat Turn Back

I found it troubling that in the actual news.com.au article that the actual reporting of the deaths was downgraded to small print at the end of the article.

Even if I'm quoted by others you don't have to read the content, you poor sensitive soul.

The deaths you quoted weren't at sea, so that may explain less media reporting.

You Lefties must be hating the fact that Abbott Abbott Abbott's policies are working. And of course the Govt. are right to provide limited information as not to divulge their strategies. You know, the strategies saving lives.

Btw, I don't remember "your initial" point. You'll have to enlighten me again. I suspect we both don't overly care whether you do or don't.

[dpositive 1,663]

Faced with success where they only failed. Labor and the Greens are reduced to demanding the Abbott Government reveal its secrets to journalists and the people smugglers. It’s a strategy that makes them look both stupid and spiteful - not to mention reckless:

The head of Customs, Michael Pezzullo, told the inquiry that withholding information also helps keep Australian officials safe at sea.

”We frankly don’t give a damn about the media cycle and what’s going to be said on [ABC show] Q&A; and all the rest of it,” he said.

Excellent strategy. As it happens, it should be adopted by Labor itself. If Q&A is for it, Labor should almost certainly be against.

The above is from Bolt's blog. I love Bolt. You can please yourself.

Being neither a Green nor Labour member and in fact supporter of neither of their total policies.I am not asking for the government to reveal its secrets. And certainly don't want the safety of Australian officials jeopardised. I understand that some information might be necessary to be witheld to undertake secure operations.

However the acknowledgement that Australian officials are processing at sea ( a quicker and more effective process) and that this has resulted in X number of boats turned back would probably do more to disuade further migrants.

I dont see this as being affected by the media cycle or How Q&A would impact.

If the policy / practice taken by my government is working then I would like to know that. If it is breaching any laws or accepted conditions I would also like to know that.

I do give a damn about all the rest of it and especially worry when public servants believe that they can do whatever they like without reference to or scrutiny from the public.

[mauriesy 7,261]

Boats should have been stopped from leaving Indonesian waters from the Howard years onwards. It's putting a fence at the top of the metaphorical cliff, and probably would have been billions cheaper over the years.

The disgraceful behaviour has been in incarcerating people for up to five years on a remote island prison somewhere, especially kids.

[Hannibal 5,814]

The disgraceful behaviour has been in incarcerating people for up to five years on a remote island prison somewhere, especially kids.

I agree. Way too long.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Being neither a Green nor Labour member and in fact supporter of neither of their total policies.I am not asking for the government to reveal its secrets. And certainly don't want the safety of Australian officials jeopardised. I understand that some information might be necessary to be witheld to undertake secure operations.

However the acknowledgement that Australian officials are processing at sea ( a quicker and more effective process) and that this has resulted in X number of boats turned back would probably do more to disuade further migrants.

I dont see this as being affected by the media cycle or How Q&A would impact.

If the policy / practice taken by my government is working then I would like to know that. If it is breaching any laws or accepted conditions I would also like to know that.

I do give a damn about all the rest of it and especially worry when public servants believe that they can do whatever they like without reference to or scrutiny from the public.

Right now, most importantly, is that their policies are working. In good time I'm sure more information will be shared.

The Left are more concerned by secrecy that strategies that are saving lives. It beggars belief, I know.

[hardtack 10,514]

Right now, most importantly, is that their policies are working. In good time I'm sure more information will be shared.

The Left are more concerned by secrecy that strategies that are saving lives. It beggars belief, I know.

Ok, here's a nice little conspiracy theory for you (I know they are usually the domain of the right, but we like to occasionally err)... with all of the secrecy that is being maintained, how can you confidently claim that lives are NOT being lost in the turning back of the boats? As we cannot enter Indonesian waters, they are unprotected and it is very possible that lives will be (or even have been) lost on the return leg... are you claiming that we should only feel bad about lives lost in international or Australian waters?

Edited February 3, 2014 by hardtack

[dee-luded 2,959]

maurie, i don't think anyone has a mortgage on labels

there may be more labels around than confetti but no shortage of people from all persuasions willing to use them

yes they do.

politicians propagate them in their sleep.

& the media revel in them at the deep end.

wordsmiths tools of trade.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

http://www.theage.com.au/business/comment-and-analysis/business-elite-dig-deep-for-liberals-but-gina-rinehart-donates-to-labor-20140203-31wme.html

I was always under the impression that Gina was in Bed with Tony, at least that's what I've read here so it must be true.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/abc-boss-gaven-morris-responds-to-news-criticism-with-edict-to-staff-20140201-31u5b.html

Does this mean that the ABC embellished (lied) about the injuries, (burns) the boat people suffered?

[H_T 3,043]

http://www.theage.com.au/business/comment-and-analysis/business-elite-dig-deep-for-liberals-but-gina-rinehart-donates-to-labor-20140203-31wme.html

I was always under the impression that Gina was in Bed with Tony, at least that's what I've read here so it must be true.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/abc-boss-gaven-morris-responds-to-news-criticism-with-edict-to-staff-20140201-31u5b.html

Does this mean that the ABC embellished (lied) about the injuries, (burns) the boat people suffered?

Amazing that in the last 6 weeks we have had zero boat people arrive. Something must be working....

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Amazing that in the last 6 weeks we have had zero boat people arrive. Something must be working....

It must be.

Wait for the stories from the ABC where the Abbott Government arrested the boat people, chained them and shipped them back, with out food or shelter. Maybe they were forced to row all the way back with their burns unattended.

[Guest]

Amazing that in the last 6 weeks we have had zero boat people arrive. Something must be working....

However H_T, we are getting into a semantic game a little I think. The stuff about how a tough border protection regime will supposedly be a deterrent has been trotted out quite a bit as rationale for these policies but we are no closer to actually knowing whether or not it is deterring anyone. Morrison is trying to cover up as much as he can and we are only getting small snippets of info. Plus, we have also heard that some boats have attempted the journey but they were turned back.