OUT: Abbott IN: Turnbull

[hardtack 10,979]

There are safe havens on the way before they get to Australia. If they were merely fleeing for their lives they don't need to travel all of the way to Australia to be safe.

Either way, boats must be stopped for their own protection. You agree ?

Yes, on that we do agree... I just don't believe our responsibility ends with that, that's all; I believe we have a duty of care.

[Earl Hood 6,152]

Yes, on that we do agree... I just don't believe our responsibility ends with that, that's all; I believe we have a duty of care.

We could send a ocean liner up to Indonesia to cut out the smugglers and take them on board over there. And then process them on board but I don't think you would be happy with that. That is not really a solution but Malcolm Frazier has asked why successive Governments have not worked with our Asian neighbours to establish refugee camps to process these people like we did in the 70's with the Vietnamese diaspora. The fact is we cooperated but we also took a lot of Vietnamese people on board and they have largely added greatly to our society. Why can't we do this again? We once feared the Viets like we now fear Afganies or Iraqies. But largely they turn out to be very like us once they have learnt the lingo and even started to play Aussie Rules.

The thing that I find difficult to deal with you "rusted on Liberal people" is that Malcolm now comes across as a bleading heart lefty. I don't think he has changed that much at all but in the past 25 years we have all been pulled toward the extreme right. And I mean both sides of politics. These boat people however tragic it is for them is not a sovereign border, security issue of national proportions. We do not have a standing army off our shores ready to invade but you could be forgiven for thinking that listening to the shock jocks. And let's face it they are inferring these people from strange places coming in rickety boats are dangerous in some way.

[Earl Hood 6,152]

Sorry Hardtrack I have mistakenly dragged you into my response to BH and co. Sorry about that.

[DemonFrog 1,359]

How do supposedly sane people form such hopelessly inept views ?

It's reasonable for a country to protect its borders. It's reasonable for a country to determine who its residents are. It's reasonable for a country to dissuade people from embarking on treacherous journeys across the ocean where thousands have already died. It's reasonable to stop those that traffic in human misery - smugglers. It's reasonable to stop people that have deliberately thrown away their identification papers.

A large proportion of the people that have arrived here by boat were not fleeing persecution. Their lives were not in immediate danger. They were simply wanting a chance at a better life. And who can blame them ? But doing it by boat isn't the answer.

You have to love lefties. All compassion, but zero thought to the consequences, which are usually worse than what concerns them.

Yes they should fly in to Australia like the 98% of the Other assylum seekers.

I really need to be brain dead to listen to this rubbish about boats.

Both sides of Politics need to grow up and stop this gutter politics.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Yes they should fly in to Australia like the 98% of the Other assylum seekers.

I really need to be brain dead to listen to this rubbish about boats.

Both sides of Politics need to grow up and stop this gutter politics.

You are.

Welcome to yesteryear, It is NOW about 50% arrive by boat.

Most coming on leaky boats are not facing immediate life threatening danger and have other resettling options rather than risking their lives at sea.

The reason that the proportion was much higher by plane years ago is that Howard had STOPPED the boats.

If you think it's wise, or you welcome arrivals by sea you are indeed brain dead.

[mjt 640]

Before the election he was just a national embarrassment.

When he became PM and flew to Jakarta he went international.

Took him less than a week.

At least he has Robbie behind him!!!!

Great work on this thread BTW mate.

Awesome bile.

Keep it up!

Before the election he was just a national embarrassment.

When he became PM and flew to Jakarta he went international.

Took him less than a week.

At least he has Robbie behind him!!!!

Great work on this thread BTW mate.

Awesome bile.

Keep it up!

It amazes me that a dead set loser in life like yourself wont except defeat, you lost the election Biffen and its baffling that someone with no prospects in life keeps trying to debate politics, christ imagine nearly entering the the ripe old age of 50 and renting a hotel room,its winners like Robbie F that pay massive amounts of taxes that pay for losers like yourself to be on the Disability Pension,Awesome Biffen , Keep it up and dont forget to tip the barmaid 10 cents at Robbies expense .

[Jara 1,153]

The employment rate after 5 years of those that come here as refugees is diabolical ? Close to 9 out of 10 are on Centrelink payments. The impost on taxpayers is enormous.

Hey Ben

Not disputing your facts, but I wouldn't mind seeing the evidence for this

I worked with refugees for a few years. Most of the ones I knew were keen to work, and ended up getting the kind of jobs we wouldn't do in a pink fit

Cheers

[Jara 1,153]

You are.

Welcome to yesteryear, It is NOW about 50% arrive by boat.

Most coming on leaky boats are not facing immediate life threatening danger and have other resettling options rather than risking their lives at sea.

The reason that the proportion was much higher by plane years ago is that Howard had STOPPED the boats.

If you think it's wise, or you welcome arrivals by sea you are indeed brain dead.

Oh and Ben, sorry to be a bore, but I wouldn't mind seeing the evidence for this claim either. I thought most still came by plane.

[hardtack 10,979]

Oh and Ben, sorry to be a bore, but I wouldn't mind seeing the evidence for this claim either. I thought most still came by plane.

Most asylum seekers I believe do arrive by boat... the stats I cited earlier in this thread were stating that the bulk of "illegal immigrants" (big difference as asylum seeking is NOT against the law), the bulk of illegals arrive legally and end up overstaying or overstaying and disappearing themselves... these are mostly Chinese, Americans, New Zealanders, Brits etc.

[Jara 1,153]

Most asylum seekers I believe do arrive by boat... the stats I cited earlier in this thread were stating that the bulk of "illegal immigrants" (big difference as asylum seeking is NOT against the law), the bulk of illegals arrive legally and end up overstaying or overstaying and disappearing themselves... these are mostly Chinese, Americans, New Zealanders, Brits etc.

Say what? I still don't get it. Doesn't matter how you get here, there's nothing illegal about arriving in a country and seeking asylum. Ergo, pace Mr Morrison, they're not illegals.

If you're supporting Bens assertion, I wouldn't mind seeing the evidence. (At least you've qualified yours with an "I believe" - ie left yourself room to back out - Ben wasn't quite so ambivalent - blithely stating that about 50% arrive by boat. I can't be bothered googling it, because I didn't make the allegation in the first place, but I wouldn't make such a claim unless I was sure it was correct)

[hardtack 10,979]

Say what? I still don't get it. Doesn't matter how you get here, there's nothing illegal about arriving in a country and seeking asylum. Ergo, pace Mr Morrison, they're not illegals.

If you're supporting Bens assertion, I wouldn't mind seeing the evidence. (At least you've qualified yours with an "I believe" - ie left yourself room to back out - Ben wasn't quite so ambivalent - blithely stating that about 50% arrive by boat. I can't be bothered googling it, because I didn't make the allegation in the first place, but I wouldn't make such a claim unless I was sure it was correct)

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. The "illegals" I am talking about are people who arrived here on tourist or student visas and subsequently overstayed. They are illegal in the fact that they are remaining in the country without an accepted visa and they are not registered as asylum seekers (look again at where I said most of them have come from). If you look at my earlier posts you will find a link to the Adelaide Advertiser where the figures are presented... they were obtained from Govt agencies.

My assertion was that it is probably correct to say that the bulk of Asylum Seekers do arrive by boat as their options are probably pretty limited by their circumstances... and yes, I also stated that they are NOT illegals.

[Earl Hood 6,152]

Of course if you have enough money you organise to fly here on a tourist visa and then disappear. You could be fleeing from persecution but the last thing you would do is tick the refugee box on your immigration questionnaire for heavens sake. The illegals are so called queue jumpers with limited resources. If you have the money to fly over the queue, your in.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Oh and Ben, sorry to be a bore, but I wouldn't mind seeing the evidence for this claim either. I thought most still came by plane.

A quarter of the way down the first page just before detailed statistics it states:

More recently the proportions of Irregular Maritime Arrival (IMA) and non-IMA (that is air arrival) asylum seekers have shifted due to the increase in boat arrivals. However, boat arrivals still only comprise about half of Australia’s onshore asylum seekers:

Link from government website:

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BN/2012-2013/AsylumFacts

[Hannibal 5,814]

Of course if you have enough money you organise to fly here on a tourist visa and then disappear. You could be fleeing from persecution but the last thing you would do is tick the refugee box on your immigration questionnaire for heavens sake. The illegals are so called queue jumpers with limited resources. If you have the money to fly over the queue, your in.

Boat smugglers charge a fair bit ...

PLUS

If you're just wanting to "flee persecution" from the middle east you don't have to reach Australia. Especially on a leaky boat. There are other stops on the way. Of course that doesn't suit your argument.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Hey Ben

Not disputing your facts, but I wouldn't mind seeing the evidence for this

I worked with refugees for a few years. Most of the ones I knew were keen to work, and ended up getting the kind of jobs we wouldn't do in a pink fit

Cheers

Jeez mate, Google is your friend. Do your own work.

[DemonFrog 1,359]

You are.

Welcome to yesteryear, It is NOW about 50% arrive by boat.

Most coming on leaky boats are not facing immediate life threatening danger and have other resettling options rather than risking their lives at sea.

The reason that the proportion was much higher by plane years ago is that Howard had STOPPED the boats.

If you think it's wise, or you welcome arrivals by sea you are indeed brain dead.

Sorry I was usinfg a figure from about three yeats ago

But you still get more people to a WAFL game then come by boat,

Oh Honest John what a guy he was. I am still laughing at the fact he lost his own seat as PM.

Just because I think anyone who uses the Boats for political gain is a sad individual, does not mean in any way I welcome their arrival. But if they do arrive they should be treated humanly and in accordance with international law.

[Jara 1,153]

A quarter of the way down the first page just before detailed statistics it states:

More recently the proportions of Irregular Maritime Arrival (IMA) and non-IMA (that is air arrival) asylum seekers have shifted due to the increase in boat arrivals. However, boat arrivals still only comprise about half of Australia’s onshore asylum seekers:

Link from government website:

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BN/2012-2013/AsylumFacts

Fair enough. You learn something new every day. I'd thought most of them came by plane. I looked at that site you referred me to. Was interesting to note that 90% of those who arrive by sea turn out to be genuine refugees. Much smaller percentage of those who come by air turn out to be (eg I think it said only about 20% of Chinese are accepted)

[DemonFrog 1,359]

It amazes me that a dead set loser in life like yourself wont except defeat, you lost the election Biffen and its baffling that someone with no prospects in life keeps trying to debate politics, christ imagine nearly entering the the ripe old age of 50 and renting a hotel room,its winners like Robbie F that pay massive amounts of taxes that pay for losers like yourself to be on the Disability Pension,Awesome Biffen , Keep it up and dont forget to tip the barmaid 10 cents at Robbies expense .

With comments like that have you ever considered supporting Collingwood?

Somehow I think you would fit right in.

[Jara 1,153]

Hey Ben

Did the googling. Found the reference.

Andrew Blot.

Congratulations - very high-powered stablemate you've got helping you form your opinions

[Hannibal 5,814]

Fair enough. You learn something new every day. I'd thought most of them came by plane. I looked at that site you referred me to. Was interesting to note that 90% of those who arrive by sea turn out to be genuine refugees. Much smaller percentage of those who come by air turn out to be (eg I think it said only about 20% of Chinese are accepted)

They throw their papers away. I wonder how much that effects their status. Either way, why die at sea when you can settle elsewhere and your life isn't in danger ?

"We'll get you there safely" "Do you need a receipt ?"

[Hannibal 5,814]

Hey Ben

Did the googling. Found the reference.

Andrew Blot.

Congratulations - very high-powered stablemate you've got helping you form your opinions

Share the info.

Or do you have a closed mind ?

[Hannibal 5,814]

Sorry I was usinfg a figure from about three yeats ago

But you still get more people to a WAFL game then come by boat,

Oh Honest John what a guy he was. I am still laughing at the fact he lost his own seat as PM.

Just because I think anyone who uses the Boats for political gain is a sad individual, does not mean in any way I welcome their arrival. But if they do arrive they should be treated humanly and in accordance with international law.

So you're proven completely incorrect (98%), have no shame about your lies, and are still happy for people to die at sea ?

What a turd you are.

[DemonFrog 1,359]

So you're proven completely incorrect (98%), have no shame about your lies, and are still happy for people to die at sea ?

What a turd you are.

Are you for real?

You really are a rude and self rightous person.

No need to reply as I now black listed you so I will never see you comments anyway.

Do us all a favoure and go join one of the Soccer Clubs, you will not be missed here.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Are you for real?

Best reality show round here, Kid.

[mauriesy 7,429]

This guy seems to think Abbott and Bishop are making a few serious 'rookie' diplomatic mistakes. He seems quite qualified to make a judgement.

PM stumbling around the international stage.