On 20/06/2013 at 21:12, Spirit of the Demon said:

I suppose in light of the allegations made about the past couple of coaching appointments we've made, all candidates will have to submit to some form of psychological testing in the future but what do these tests really tell you? Surely, if someone's clever enough, these tests could be manipulated?

Then there's the question of how you approach the subject. Imagine telling a seasoned, experienced coach like Roos or Sheedy that you wanted them to submit to that sort of testing as part of the selection process. I'm sure Carlton didn't do that with Malthouse.

Perhaps we just have to accept the fact that all coaches are nut cases.

You could be right mate all coaches could be nutcases though some do seem to be nuttier than others lol

You are quite right tests can be manipulated, although good ones should have questions designed to pick up any untruthful answering patterns.

  On 20/06/2013 at 21:10, fuchsia said:

watch his 3 part interview on you tube. with kg & the general ( phil smythe ).

see if you feel the same way.from 12 july 2010..

very informative & honest. especially his "chad cornes DRILL'"in part 3.( named after him for not getting off his bum)..

great record over a long time ..

last 2 years had 8 out the best 20 players injured..

I don't think there is any doubt he can coach. You don't fluke a flag no matter how many advantages you may have had. You just have to be aware of his cons and make an honest assessment as to whether his pros outway his negatives.

Mark Williams is the coach for our last crack and forming a Premiership side from our current crop of players.

He will rock a very big ship that just sinking anyway so why not. Does anyone actually believe a bloke like Rocket Eade is going to inspire Colin Sylvia to be the player we all think he can be. I'd rather see Col under Williams than any other coach.

Williams, like Roos, will connect with our entire playing group, something Neeld obviously had trouble with. But as much as we want Roosy I just don't think the move to Melbourne is attractive at all.

It's Williams for a shot at and Grandfinal win, or its Eade for a couple more Preliminary Finals then another half-decade in the bottom eight.

  On 20/06/2013 at 21:42, the fork said:

Mark Williams is the coach for our last crack and forming a Premiership side from our current crop of players.

He will rock a very big ship that just sinking anyway so why not. Does anyone actually believe a bloke like Rocket Eade is going to inspire Colin Sylvia to be the player we all think he can be. I'd rather see Col under Williams than any other coach.

Williams, like Roos, will connect with our entire playing group, something Neeld obviously had trouble with. But as much as we want Roosy I just don't think the move to Melbourne is attractive at all.

It's Williams for a shot at and Grandfinal win, or its Eade for a couple more Preliminary Finals then another half-decade in the bottom eight.

Although I do think Eade does have a few of the faults that Williams has with being a bit reactive, Rockets well documented antics in the coaching box are hardly conducive to clear thinking on matchday for example, I do think he has a few strengths that he shares with Williams. One of those is connecting with players. After listening to a few of his ex player interviews he seems to have done that and at the Dogs was responsible for a few players staying who otherwise would have left when he first took over. When looking at Eade you have to look at his Sydney days as well where he did take them to a grand final and they certainly weren't doomed to the bottom eight for a long period after he left.

I think one of Eade's advantages is that he seems to have molded his gameplans to suit the strengths of his list. A big forward with the Swans, lots of mid to small forward targets at the Dogs.

  On 20/06/2013 at 20:49, Strafford said:

Whether he hired one is not the point. As the coaches sister she was always compromised and it was a very unprofessional appointment. I can't believe the club signed off on it, although it perhaps gives credence to the belief that some at the club were giving him enough rope to hang himself. Towards the end Port seem to have had as many dysfunctional relationships as we have had. It seems she also had a fair bit to say about how they sacked him with a speech at the best and fairest night after the event. She probably had some fair points, but again some of that would have been lost due to the view that she was just defending her brother. Nothing wrong with defending your family by the way, it is just that she had a terrible conflict of interest between her professional role and her loyalty to her family.

Yep, let's get some boring, box ticking, process oriented robot again who doesn't put any of the old school MFC supporters' noses out of joint - and who, as an unfortunate aside, couldn't motivate any player in the entire world to play footy well or inspire any passion around the place.

In fact, why don't we simply appoint one of the Board members to coach the team - perhaps the company secretary, if we have one.

I, for one, want a fair dinkum experienced footy bloke to take this list, and the club, by the the throat and really rev it up - much like a red hot blood infusion.

And I reckon Choco Williams is the perfect man to achieve that, even if some of the Toorak set might find aspects of his conduct slightly 'untoward' at times.

I'm sick of the MFC being the prissy club in the comp.

As Checker Hughes stated to his Fuchsias in the sheds during a game - "You are playing like a lot of flowers. Lift your heads and play like demons!"

As well all know, the name was promptly embraced and the 'Demons' went on to win four premierships during his reign.

Let's get that headspace back once again.

It's a no brainer. Get Choco.

  On 20/06/2013 at 22:11, Ron Burgundy said:

Yep, let's get some boring, box ticking, process oriented robot again who doesn't put any of the old school MFC supporters' noses out of joint - and who, as an unfortunate aside, couldn't motivate any player in the entire world to play footy well or inspire any passion around the place.

In fact, why don't we simply appoint one of the Board members to coach the team - perhaps the company secretary, if we have one.

I, for one, want a fair dinkum experienced footy bloke to take this list, and the club, by the the throat and really rev it up - much like a red hot blood infusion.

And I reckon Choco Williams is the perfect man to achieve that, even if some of the Toorak set might find aspects of his conduct slightly 'untoward' at times.

I'm sick of the MFC being the prissy club in the comp.

As Checker Hughes stated to his Fuchsias in the sheds during a game - "You are playing like a lot of flowers. Lift your heads and play like demons!"

As well all know, the name was promptly embraced and the 'Demons' went on to win four premierships during his reign.

Let's get that headspace back once again.

It's a no brainer. Get Choco.

I don't disagree with you. I would prefer Roos who is a bit more level headed than Eade or Williams, but I doubt we will get him. So to me it is down to Williams and Eade who is also not a process driven robot. I actually don't think it would be a good idea to appoint a board member coach either by the way, nor do I give a rats about upsetting the Toorak set lol. Both guys have their faults, we just need to be aware of them.

  On 20/06/2013 at 11:41, Strafford said:

I just don't know about Williams.

I think he is a good coach, even though I do think he was given a pretty good start to his career due to how Port was set up and he had a lot to work with. He was a key part in the development of a very dominant team although you could argue they should have won more than one flag. He also was able to rebuild his team and they were tracking well until the disaster of the Grand final loss to Geelong.

My questions are. Were the seeds of later fractures at Port sown in the aftermath of the 04 flag with Williams settling scores? What was Williams doing in the leadup to the Geelong grand final smashing, because whatever it was it backfired? Why did the Power fall in a heap after that loss? Why would he hire his sister as a club psychologist? That is a professional no no. Why was the club so fractured when he left?

A lot of rumours are circulating about his time at GWS, so why did he leave early and has he actually learned from some of the mistakes he made at Port?

I do think he can coach, but he also scares the hell out of me

I think you're trying to read too much into events that are too difficult to judge from afar, as well as being quite a while ago. Long-term coaches always have teams on the up and on the way down. They have periods where they have a great relationship with the Board and admin and other times where they don't due to changes in personnel and team performance. David Parkin, a great coach, was sacked from Carlton, re-employed years later, and sacked again. It's the nature of the business.

His record is pretty impeccable. Let's not forget that the inaugural coach, John Cahill, got sacked with a 45% win/loss record and Williams got them playing finals in his first year. By year three they were top 4. All people and coaches evolve and learn. He ought be a better coach now than then if they fire still burns.

I believe he left GWS, because he was virtually running the show and wanted to be coach in year 3. Can't blame him. The wraps on him there were good.

He seems to tick all the boxes including a burning desire to coach which is something Roos doesn't seem to have

If our decision is going to be between Roos, Choco, or Eade I think either way we will get a very good coach. But for me if Roos does not want the job and I mean want it, not just be convinced by mountains of cash, then Choco is the one we should get. He did very good things at Port, and knocking off the Lions run off premierships is a massive feather in the cap.

I want a senior coach who has held the cup aloft and knows how to get us there again.

  On 21/06/2013 at 00:35, Ben-Hur said:

I think you're trying to read too much into events that are too difficult to judge from afar, as well as being quite a while ago. Long-term coaches always have teams on the up and on the way down. They have periods where they have a great relationship with the Board and admin and other times where they don't due to changes in personnel and team performance. David Parkin, a great coach, was sacked from Carlton, re-employed years later, and sacked again. It's the nature of the business.

His record is pretty impeccable. Let's not forget that the inaugural coach, John Cahill, got sacked with a 45% win/loss record and Williams got them playing finals in his first year. By year three they were top 4. All people and coaches evolve and learn. He ought be a better coach now than then if they fire still burns.

I believe he left GWS, because he was virtually running the show and wanted to be coach in year 3. Can't blame him. The wraps on

him there were good.

Yep you are right it is the nature of the business and you hope that coaches learn from their experiences. We are just going through the hypotheticals and are considering questions that hopefully those selecting our next coach will get answers to that will enable them to make the right choice in selecting our next coach. I'm not sure 2010 was a long time ago by that logic his 2004 flag was ancient history. A year after he left the AFL stepped in.Port were a mess. Why did the Port board over rule his choice of Captain? Obviously an unhealthy dynamic was going on. Surely if we are doing due diligence we will need to at least have some understanding of the

breakdown?

Sorry to have to make another post Ben Hur rather than tacking this onto my reply to you. Ipad troubles I do have a friend who was there at the Best and fairest when his sister made her speech and she actually did make some very good points and some at the club did themselves a total disservice as to how they treated him.

  On 21/06/2013 at 00:35, Ben-Hur said:

His record is pretty impeccable. Let's not forget that the inaugural coach, John Cahill, got sacked with a 45% win/loss record and Williams got them playing finals in his first year. By year three they were top 4..

It is true with Cahill as far as it goes, but under him they did only miss out on the finals by percentage in their first season and although Williams did make finals in his first season they did drop to 14th in his second season. So strangely enough if you compare their first two seasons as head coaches of Port, Cahill actually comes out ahead by half a game, not counting the final under Williams that they lost.

Just be thankful we are debating over who we want out of Rodney Eade, Paul Roos and Choco WIlliams instead of trying to decide who wed prefer out of Scott Burns, Alan RIchardson and Peter Sumich.

  On 20/06/2013 at 20:49, Strafford said:

Whether he hired one is not the point. As the coaches sister she was always compromised and it was a very unprofessional appointment. I can't believe the club signed off on it, although it perhaps gives credence to the belief that some at the club were giving him enough rope to hang himself. Towards the end Port seem to have had as many dysfunctional relationships as we have had. It seems she also had a fair bit to say about how they sacked him with a speech at the best and fairest night after the event. She probably had some fair points, but again some of that would have been lost due to the view that she was just defending her brother. Nothing wrong with defending your family by the way, it is just that she had a terrible conflict of interest between her professional role and her loyalty to her family.

What sort of farcical club has the psychologist doing speeches at the Best and Fairest? That's the sort of bizarre move I'd expect us to come up with.

In 2010 he'd been there 12 years and it was time to part. According to Wakelin he needs to feel secure and have a great relationship with his footy manager and CEO. I doubt that was the case in 2010. Every coach has a use by date and his time was clearly up.

Yes, I was aware of his second year at Port, but notably they finished third in his third. I'm not privy to injuries or what occurred in his second, but his subsequent record made that year in isolation irrelevant. Well, for me anyway.

  On 21/06/2013 at 04:21, Supermercado said:

What sort of farcical club has the psychologist doing speeches at the Best and Fairest? That's the sort of bizarre move I'd expect us to come up with.

They talk about post 119 like we do about 186. Like us their club went a little crazy.

  On 21/06/2013 at 04:16, hogans_heroes said:

Just be thankful we are debating over who we want out of Rodney Eade, Paul Roos and Choco WIlliams instead of trying to decide who wed prefer out of Scott Burns, Alan RIchardson and Peter Sumich.

Too true. At least he gives me something to do while I wait to give evidence.

Question for anybody....

What's the general conditions with Assistant Coaches contracts when a Senior Coach is terminated and the new Senior Coach does not want them as assistants going forward?

Are they paid out or is it a condition of being an assistant that these things happen and you've got to roll with them meaning that salary/contracts are a year by year proposition?

Anyone know? I'm asking in case of the scenario that we are obliged to pay out further large sums of money due to contract terminations.

  On 21/06/2013 at 04:40, McQueen said:

Question for anybody.... What's the general conditions with Assistant Coaches contracts when a Senior Coach is terminated and the new Senior Coach does not want them as assistants going forward? Are they paid out or is it a condition of being an assistant that these things happen and you've got to roll with them meaning that salary/contracts are a year by year proposition? Anyone know? I'm asking in case of the scenario that we are obliged to pay out further large sums of money due to contract terminations.

From my understanding 5 of the 6 assistant coaches contracts are over at seasons end

  On 21/06/2013 at 04:32, Ben-Hur said:

In 2010 he'd been there 12 years and it was time to part. According to Wakelin he needs to feel secure and have a great relationship with his footy manager and CEO. I doubt that was the case in 2010. Every coach has a use by date and his time was clearly up.

Yes, I was aware of his second year at Port, but notably they finished third in his third. I'm not privy to injuries or what occurred in his second, but his subsequent record made that year in isolation irrelevant. Well, for me anyway.

Very messy end though for all that as you say his time was up. Bit of a personality clash with Haysman the CEO didn't help. Also a conflict over who should be the footy manager. Lots of conflict.

As you say that season was probably irrelevant in isolation, but they were a competitive team from the get go. They didn't really have a spike until year five.

I'm pro Williams & anti Roos.

Main reason is I don't like Roos' attitude.

However, what happens if Craig turns it around this year?

Any love for Neil?

  On 21/06/2013 at 04:53, GM11 said:

I'm pro Williams & anti Roos.

Main reason is I don't like Roos' attitude.

However, what happens if Craig turns it around this year?

Any love for Neil?

Depends how far he turns it around.

I just don't see it happening.

  On 21/06/2013 at 04:44, Demonsterative said:

From my understanding 5 of the 6 assistant coaches contracts are over at seasons end

That's probably a good thing.

Cheers

  On 21/06/2013 at 04:56, McQueen said:

That's probably a good thing.

Cheers

It is fortuitous.

Craig is under contract but surely that isn't the bullet in the head that some seem to imply it is.

I really only know what I have read in the press and what has been added here.

It seems to me that Roos is the culture builder. He has a record of success and leaving a healthy and well adjusted supportative environment behind

he came from Fitzroy and seemed to have an awareness of what they were destroying and took many of the features into his future, It may have to be presented that he could enhance his personal standing by turning us around and his reputation within AFL and broader sporting circles would be beyond question Of course there is also the fact that failure would destroy him more significantly than Bailey or Neeld. Is his game day action as relevant now as previous?

Williams does seem to have some more risk but again has success and a good track record I am liking him the more that comes out as he does have some strong character traits that seem to ruffle the feathers but he seemed to have support of players.

Eade I wasnt aware of some of his attributes but he does seem more subdued and methodical than Williams and may well sit between him and Roos

I would not be speaking $$ without loading it based on success and I do mean games just not leaving a better culture.

I reckon we need a relationship between players and coaches that will get the best out of players Who is best to do that can only be ascertained by closer examination and interview. I would like to be involved in the discussion but wont be and can only hope that whoever is making the decisions can present us and all stakeholders with a succinct and justifiable explanation of their choice including expectations and conditions.

I have come around to concentrating only on proven winners as many here have to avoid any further coach development programs. I was not anti Neeld and would have taken Hinkley or any of the many assistants available at that time but the step up is obviously major and we have already wasted our opportunity, FGS would probably even consider Sheeds as well as Clarkson Lyon etc but would probably avoid Ayres etc for same reason