No use sacking Neeld

[Mongrel Dee 56]

Worst group of players at this club in 20 years.

Worst coach at this club in 20 years.

The lot of them are turning me off going to watch football. I care about this club...derrrrrrr I must be bloody stupid!

[P-man 13,366]

I haven't been in the habit of belittling those who are seeking Neeld's dismissal, but I am happy to say now that I still believe Neeld should be given the chance to see out his rebuild (at least until the start of next season) - I cannot see how sacking him immediately will solve anything and it could well serve to set us back even further.

However, despite what I would like to see, the fact is that I think he may well be gone by season's end (looking at shots of him in the coach's box yesterday, he looked like a man about to fall on his own sword).

Oh, and as far as belittling goes, I think you will find that it has been going on from both sides of the fence.

Kudos HT, and no doubt it has gone both ways though from what I have seen, much more in one direction than the other. My comment was in reference to a few posters and they know full well who they are. Those saying Neeld is incapable of this job have been talked down to and outright abused, and those most guilty have been absent from the discussion since yesterday afternoon. At least show up is all I'm saying. Just an observation. Moving on.

[Ted Lasso 19,513]

and Hopefully ROOS will not accept the job at any price with the same Playing Group, as I suspect he woudn't... All hyperthetical and probably not worth carrying on about much further.. If a new coach comes in and is given a new list and the team eventually performs better ... Does that in fact make him a better coach than MN ?? OR IF MN had a list similar to any proposed for the "new" coach would he enjoy the same results.. Highly hyperthetical of course.. The bottom line question is Would Neeld achieve better results if he had a stronger list ??? Of course he would wouldn't he ?? I believe most times Players help make coaches and NOT necessarily vice versa.... How is SHEEDY , a so called "great", "successful" Coach going at the moment with the "list' he has at GWS ??? NO coach is any good with a "Shyte list". I am by no means a Mark Neeld fan as I have sometimes shown on this site, but I can see why he cannot make any progress at the moment... I have read so many times that this is "NEELD"S list and if that is totally correct then he will probably fall on his own sword... Just trying trying to make what I feel is a valid point with regards to AFL Coaches..

I don't think there are too many concerns about GWS not playing for Sheedy though, my concern isn't the results as much as it's the way we are losing, the players don't seem to believe or understand Neelds plan, maybe he would be better off with another club and we'd be better off with someone else, no shame in the job being too much for him, pretty sure it would be for 99% of inexperienced coaches.

[[email protected] 101]

It there is no point sacking Neeld now, than as far as I'm concerned there is no point carrying on with this season.

I'm sorry but I cannot go to the footy anymore and watch us play the way we are playing. 13,000 spectators will turn to 10,000 then 5,000 and a $1.5mill loss will quickly turn to $2.5mill.

Players will continue to feel utterly hopeless and unmotivated and they will get their managers to start putting out feelers.

Now some of you might feel heroic to say "stuff them, they can all go", but the reality is that losing Frawley, or Garland, or Howe or any of these quality players will put us back a further 5 years. You don't just let your best mature players walk out. We did it with Rivers and it seriously hurt us and he is not in the same sphere as Frawley.

For as long as Neeld is coaching, it's clear to me that we will continue to be hopeless on the field. We can't afford such hopelessness.

Put us back 5 years ??? That would mean we will still be where we are now... So what's the difference ??

[Satyriconhome 10,872]

Neeld supporters have been strangely absent the past 24 hours (other than the odd "like" of a post).

Would be good to see some front up to either stand by their views and their belittling of other posters who have questioned the current FD, or admit they were wrong. One or the other. To just not show up is pretty [censored] weak in my view.

Sorry darling, been busy with other things (Mother's day pre and post the game), also wanted to put a studied reply rather than go off half cocked.

I was totally shattered and disgusted by what was served up yesterday, only my lovely lady stopped me leaving at 3/4 time which we have never done

But I am a bit surprised that not many posters are blaming the players, the lack of effort by some of them yesterday was appalling, it bothers me that they continually come out and say we support Neeld and then do that to him

I am not sure whether sacking Neeld is the answer, I am even more perplexed and concerned now as to what the issues afflicting the Club actually are, I just know the Neeld has become the scapegoat for everything that is wrong, yes he has made some coaching mistakes, but he tried a few different things after half time yesterday, but the players let him down and didn't follow them through

I listened to his presser and to that of Peter Jackson, they seem to be on the same page, I don't know what the outcome will be, the only thing I now for certain is I will be there on Sunday

Edited May 13, 2013 by Satyriconhome

[Wormburner 674]

I fear what we are feeling now is nothing, I don't know about anyone else but I am petrified at the thought of playing Geelong at skilled and even the hawks at the moment - the way we're playing and the players current mindset the 186 record is gonna be smashed.

Something has to be done....

[[email protected] 101]

Worst group of players at this club in 20 years.

Worst coach at this club in 20 years.

The lot of them are turning me off going to watch football. I care about this club...derrrrrrr I must be bloody stupid!

Worst group of players ?? Maybe yes... Worst Coach ?? Read my post #50.. He may be , and if he is at all responsible for the current list then that was a major contributing factor...

[[email protected] 101]

Sorry darling, been busy with other things, also wanted to put a studied reply rather than go off half cocked.

I was totally shattered and disgusted by what was served up yesterday, only my lovely lady stopped me leaving at 3/4 time which we have never done

But I am a bit surprised that not many posters are blaming the players, the lack of effort by some of them yesterday was appalling, it bothers me that they continually come out and say we support Neeld and then do that to him

I am not sure whether sacking Neeld is the answer, I am even more perplexed and concerned now as to what the issues afflicting the Club actually are, I just know the Neeld has become the scapegoat for everything that is wrong, yes he has made some coaching mistakes, he even tried a few different things after half time yesterday, but the players let him down

I listened to his presser and to that of Peter Jackson, they seem to be on the same page, I don't know what the outcome will be, the only thing I now for certain is I will be there on Sunday

I am one poster blaming some of the players and the weakness of the current list..

[[email protected] 101]

absolute Rubbish.

7 players did not lay 1 farken tackle yesterday. That includes Jordie Mac who is in the side to tackle.

The players do not care enough. Do not excuse them. Mark Neeldis not experienced enough to turn it around.

your comment neither changes my mind nor does it address my post in any detail , a post which you call "absolute rubbish" I think your reply is strangely partly endorsing my comments.. respecting the fact you have posted towards 19000 posts but adding that calling my post "absolute rubbish" is maybe just that.. Hopefully most players are not in the side just to "tackle" If so we are in worse trouble than I actually thought...

[Moonshadow 17,676]

I heard an interesting interview with Robert Walls on the radio talking about his tense relationship with Sheedy. Walls talked about how Sheedy walked into a "Rolls Royce" club as a young coach and had loads of talent, money and support throughout his coaching days. Walls, on the other hand, was at Fitzroy and Brisbane when they were both the VFL/AFLs laughing stock clubs. He talked about how hard it was to keep homesick players (at Bris) from boarding planes back to Vic or SA and how he once had to withdraw money from his own bank account to pay what was promised to Michael McLean, because the club had no money.

I'd hate to see us lose the best of our experienced players to other clubs, we have so little experience as it is. And if we lose $1.5 mill plus the money required to pay out Neeld and a range of assistants and other staff (probably close to another $1.5mill) we would be flat out broke. Vlad has said that the AFL cannot step in and take over at Melbourne in part because we are technically solvent. That would change dramatically if we went to $3mill in debt by years end.

[P-man 13,366]

Sorry darling, been busy with other things (Mother's day pre and post the game), also wanted to put a studied reply rather than go off half cocked.

I was totally shattered and disgusted by what was served up yesterday, only my lovely lady stopped me leaving at 3/4 time which we have never done

But I am a bit surprised that not many posters are blaming the players, the lack of effort by some of them yesterday was appalling, it bothers me that they continually come out and say we support Neeld and then do that to him

I am not sure whether sacking Neeld is the answer, I am even more perplexed and concerned now as to what the issues afflicting the Club actually are, I just know the Neeld has become the scapegoat for everything that is wrong, yes he has made some coaching mistakes, but he tried a few different things after half time yesterday, but the players let him down and didn't follow them through

I listened to his presser and to that of Peter Jackson, they seem to be on the same page, I don't know what the outcome will be, the only thing I now for certain is I will be there on Sunday

I've taken you off ignore to read a post starting off with "sorry darling". Back onto ignore you go, you condescending twit.

Though i will say well done for FINALLY realising blame has to be laid somewhere, and you've decided the players. after abusing the living [censored] out of anyone who dared speak ill of the players or coach. Congratulations on your epiphany.

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

When are you guys going to get it?

The playing list is the responsibility of the coach. Our list has gone backwards under this hopelessly under qualified coach. At the end of 2011 when there were 4 teams looking for a new coach, Melbourne had by far the most exciting developing list of the 4. The media agreed. We were 4 years into a rebuild with a good smothering of experienced older players with the remainder of the list made up almost entirely of 1st and 2nd round players. The club was in finals contention until late in the season (for the 2nd year in a row), and had some thumping victories. Sure there were some holes and there were issues, but there was also the basis for an excellent developing team. What has happened since this point is nothing short of horrifying. I don't need to rehash in a step by step blow, you have all read it before. What is important to remember is that Neeld is personally responsible for all the stuff ups, poor trading, player management, game plan, etc etc etc. The buck stops with the coach. The leadership style, everything to do with football is the responsibility of the coach.

As I first said after 4 rounds last year (and I was smashed for saying this). The appointment of Mark Neeld as coach is the greatest mistake this club has made since the sacking of Norm Smith. I wish my prediction was wrong. The red flags started to shoot up almost from his very first press conference. Anyone who knows anything about management would have started to have serious concerns very early. The way he split the playing group was breathtaking. You cannot understate the damage he has done to the playing group, to the club.

I am close friends with one of the player managers who is directly responsible for a number of our better players on our list. I promise that a number of our better players are very seriously considering asking for trades or taking free agency come seasons end. Worse the general AFL community know this, opposition clubs have already started to make moves on our better players. The only chance we have of saving our club from extinction is to sack Neeld today (pretty sure it will happen). Even then the damage he has done may already be terminal.

For God Sake cut out this cancer..... Neeld before it kills us.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Grand New Flag

[[email protected] 101]

I fear what we are feeling now is nothing, I don't know about anyone else but I am petrified at the thought of playing Geelong at skilled and even the hawks at the moment - the way we're playing and the players current mindset the 186 record is gonna be smashed.

Something has to be done....

Not "petrified" anymore, just used to the weekly humiliation now... Nothing any of my mates whom all support other AFL Clubs can say to bother me anymore and most of them have gone from Shyte stirring me to feeling sorry for me.. Edited May 13, 2013 by [email protected]

[daisycutter 29,613]

I heard an interesting interview with Robert Walls on the radio talking about his tense relationship with Sheedy. Walls talked about how Sheedy walked into a "Rolls Royce" club as a young coach and had loads of talent, money and support throughout his coaching days. Walls, on the other hand, was at Fitzroy and Brisbane when they were both the VFL/AFLs laughing stock clubs. He talked about how hard it was to keep homesick players (at Bris) from boarding planes back to Vic or SA and how he once had to withdraw money from his own bank account to pay what was promised to Michael McLean, because the club had no money.

I'd hate to see us lose the best of our experienced players to other clubs, we have so little experience as it is. And if we lose $1.5 mill plus the money required to pay out Neeld and a range of assistants and other staff (probably close to another $1.5mill) we would be flat out broke. Vlad has said that the AFL cannot step in and take over at Melbourne in part because we are technically solvent. That would change dramatically if we went to $3mill in debt by years end.

i think achieving what is required and ONLY being in debt of 3M is being optimistic

assuming we replace average performers with good experienced ones

its not hard coming up with a sum exceeding 4M and what would that do to us

[[email protected] 101]

I don't think there are too many concerns about GWS not playing for Sheedy though, my concern isn't the results as much as it's the way we are losing, the players don't seem to believe or understand Neelds plan, maybe he would be better off with another club and we'd be better off with someone else, no shame in the job being too much for him, pretty sure it would be for 99% of inexperienced coaches.

AS long as the same principle applies to the players for whom the job is too much ??? Fair ??

[[email protected] 101]

I heard an interesting interview with Robert Walls on the radio talking about his tense relationship with Sheedy. Walls talked about how Sheedy walked into a "Rolls Royce" club as a young coach and had loads of talent, money and support throughout his coaching days. Walls, on the other hand, was at Fitzroy and Brisbane when they were both the VFL/AFLs laughing stock clubs. He talked about how hard it was to keep homesick players (at Bris) from boarding planes back to Vic or SA and how he once had to withdraw money from his own bank account to pay what was promised to Michael McLean, because the club had no money.

I'd hate to see us lose the best of our experienced players to other clubs, we have so little experience as it is. And if we lose $1.5 mill plus the money required to pay out Neeld and a range of assistants and other staff (probably close to another $1.5mill) we would be flat out broke. Vlad has said that the AFL cannot step in and take over at Melbourne in part because we are technically solvent. That would change dramatically if we went to $3mill in debt by years end.

I had not heard that interview with R Walls , but as I posted #50 in many cases Players make coaches and a coach is only as good as his players.. I know I get shouted down when I have said exactly as Walls said (or similar) Sheedy was a lucky Coach so to speak... not necessarily the Great Coach as many saw him.. Most times he talks a lot of what I call is just "common" sense when it comes to footy and no different to the views of many football followers.. He also gets away with a lot of BS because of who he is... Like the garbage he came out with after the GWS Adelaide game yesterday. (not much different than the Derrick Kicket episodes).........I thought someone like Ronald Dale would have doubled the number of Premierships at Essendon during Sheedy's reign had he been blessed with that list... (hyperthetical, but plausible ?) BTW, If we lose a large number of members at the end of this season we would be well on the way to becoming insolvent would we not ???

[Ted Lasso 19,513]

AS long as the same principle applies to the players for whom the job is too much ??? Fair ??

Which players specifically are you suggesting? it's entirely possible a good number just have no faith in their coach and this is being reflected in their effot.

[Satyriconhome 10,872]

I've taken you off ignore to read a post starting off with "sorry darling". Back onto ignore you go, you condescending twit.

Though i will say well done for FINALLY realising blame has to be laid somewhere, and you've decided the players. after abusing the living [censored] out of anyone who dared speak ill of the players or coach. Congratulations on your epiphany.

I know you won't read this so I can put what I like, couldn't resist the opening gambit, you deserved it from some of your previous postings, never abused, bit below actually old chap, taking the proverbial, yes, with style, yes........I suppose I was 'blaming' the players, I have never defended where I thought they shoudn't be, if you go back to the Essendon game you will see the same sort of sentiment.....anyway thanks for not reading, and the acknowledgement I have a pair (rather big, if I say so myself)

[Giles 181]

At the risk of being accused of living in pre-historic times, let me throw a few names at you from 1988.

Jamie Duursma

David Flintoff

David Williams

Graeme Yeats

Stephen Newport

Ricky Jackson.

Champions, stars or legends? Hardly, but they all played in a GF. Not only did they play for their coach, they played for each other. Is that rocket science?

Spot on! Those boys were inspired. I was inspired watching them. Hard work is inspiring. Neeld is supposed to be all about hard work. I've not seen or heard anything inspiring from him. I see surprise, dismay and deflection of our results when he speaks - hardly the qualities of a coach or a leader of men.

[[email protected] 101]

Which players specifically are you suggesting? it's entirely possible a good number just have no faith in their coach and this is being reflected in their effot.

That in itself is unacceptable and sounds like a line that has been used many times before in this Club.. Players should not run the Club... I am by the way referring to players that are obviously not up to AFL senior standard NOT those who get their nickers in a Knot because they disagree with or "don't have any faith in the coach" as you say...They are well paid to do a job , faith in the "Boss" or not...!!! Would you like to name them as you ask me to name those to whom I am referring ??? I am sure those I may name would be backed up by their on field performances but I am not so sure those whom you say have no faith in the coach will be willing to back up what you say is "entirely possible".... I believe my statement would be easier to substantiate..

[robbiefrom13 887]

Been with you all the way, P_Man.

My view hasn't changed - In fact, in the cold, dark light, I'm even more convinced that Neeld is the man for the job.

this view is what someone seeing in "dark light" could be expected to come up with...

[rjay 24,919]

When are you guys going to get it?

The playing list is the responsibility of the coach. Our list has gone backwards under this hopelessly under qualified coach. At the end of 2011 when there were 4 teams looking for a new coach, Melbourne had by far the most exciting developing list of the 4. The media agreed. We were 4 years into a rebuild with a good smothering of experienced older players with the remainder of the list made up almost entirely of 1st and 2nd round players. The club was in finals contention until late in the season (for the 2nd year in a row), and had some thumping victories. Sure there were some holes and there were issues, but there was also the basis for an excellent developing team. What has happened since this point is nothing short of horrifying. I don't need to rehash in a step by step blow, you have all read it before. What is important to remember is that Neeld is personally responsible for all the stuff ups, poor trading, player management, game plan, etc etc etc. The buck stops with the coach. The leadership style, everything to do with football is the responsibility of the coach.

As I first said after 4 rounds last year (and I was smashed for saying this). The appointment of Mark Neeld as coach is the greatest mistake this club has made since the sacking of Norm Smith. I wish my prediction was wrong. The red flags started to shoot up almost from his very first press conference. Anyone who knows anything about management would have started to have serious concerns very early. The way he split the playing group was breathtaking. You cannot understate the damage he has done to the playing group, to the club.

I am close friends with one of the player managers who is directly responsible for a number of our better players on our list. I promise that a number of our better players are very seriously considering asking for trades or taking free agency come seasons end. Worse the general AFL community know this, opposition clubs have already started to make moves on our better players. The only chance we have of saving our club from extinction is to sack Neeld today (pretty sure it will happen). Even then the damage he has done may already be terminal.

For God Sake cut out this cancer..... Neeld before it kills us.

No the greatest mistake was the re appointment of Cameron Scwhab as CEO. Unfortunately a lot of the decisions made around this time were on the back of the strong personality that was Jimmy Stynes and those that surrounded him. Jimmy needed good people around him, unfortunately he had his own people, including Gary Lyon who advised him poorly. No one stood up to them.

Neeld came into a club that was a mess and was ill equipped to fix it, I'm not sure if anyone could. I fell sorry for him but he is gone.

[Bossdog 2,002]

No. We need to make an offer he cannot turn down.

For 40 years i have watched other clubs rise to the pointy end with the right people.

It is now our time.

Supporters must demand the best.

Do not walk away

And what happens when he can't get the team to the promised land WYL????......After paying out contracts......Paying Zillions for Roos.....and financially ruining the club.......I thought Barassi coming back to coach all those years ago was supposed to deliver some success?????....What happened to that?????....Paul Roos does not want to coach........and if he did he would not come to Melbourne......You can demand all you want....but it will not happen....

[Ted Lasso 19,513]

That in itself is unacceptable and sounds like a line that has been used many times before in this Club.. Players should not run the Club... I am by the way referring to players that are obviously not up to AFL senior standard NOT those who get their nickers in a Knot because they disagree with or "don't have any faith in the coach" as you say...They are well paid to do a job , faith in the "Boss" or not...!!! Would you like to name them as you ask me to name those to whom I am referring ??? I am sure those I may name would be backed up by their on field performances but I am not so sure those whom you say have no faith in the coach will be willing to back up what you say is "entirely possible".... I believe my statement would be easier to substantiate..

I would like you to name these players,

of yesterdays game i would say Spencer, Nicholson sellar and bail are outright not at AFL standard

Frawley, Dunn, Mckenzie, strauss, davey, garland, tapscott, byrnes and dawes are AFL standard but didn't have good games. ( for whatever reason )

and the rest are the only thing holding our club together.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

At the risk of being accused of living in pre-historic times, let me throw a few names at you from 1988.

Jamie Duursma

David Flintoff

David Williams

Graeme Yeats

Stephen Newport

Ricky Jackson.

Champions, stars or legends? Hardly, but they all played in a GF. Not only did they play for their coach, they played for each other. Is that rocket science?

Better players than our current crop.

Didn't strut around, refusing to do time trials or train properly.

They were accountable and tough.

Let's have a look at a few other names from the past, shall we?

Morton

Bennell

Martin

Cook

Moloney