We need 3 midfielders and we need them as of next year. With Hogan coming in I'd trade one of Frawley or Watts for a top line mid. We'll never compete without them.

This is interesting. We can have the best backline or fowardline in the comp but no point if our mids cant get there hands on it. But you only get what you pay for and ATM Frawley or Watts are only worth B grade at best, we have to offer something substantial, something along the lines of the Carlton/Judd deal.

Lets say we go after Patty Dangerfield or Trent Cotchin. Who do we have that is worth someone that good...

Now I know this is going to sound ridiculous and I am sure there will be an enslaught of abuse but there is only one player that will land us a big fish...

Hogan.

Well said Cudi.

I wasn't really disputing what you said previously, Strafford. I was just adding to the discussion with some other random thoughts

I do have an issue with paying our current list 9 or 10 million dollars for what they bring to the table. If it was a performance based thing then we'd have a lot of money spare in the salary cap. A real lot !

The fact is that you have to pay at least 95% of your cap. If we were paying 1.2 mil each to Ablett, Pendlebury and say Goodes and then divvy up the rest would that be a problem? Obviously it can't happen right now but we need stars and to get them, we'll have to pay over the odds.

Or we just keep what we've got and keep on 'developing'. Or not developing.

Speaking of random, I've struggled with the site today and quoting suddenly lol

Just continuing on the relationship between observable talent and development there are also some intangibles that probably aren't related to either. Despite some psychological screening I don't think you can predict how some guys are going to react to the bright lights. For some it seems a rabbit in the headlights experience whereby their decision making goes to pieces and they can't execute skills that seem second nature to them at training. How do you really tell how a player will react to playing for a team on struggle street if they have only played for successful junior teams? How will they cope with a life crisis if or most probably when they face one... of course the big one injuries.

.

What's Neeld's average losing margin? Must be 60+.

I feel the club is trying to remain stable even in the face of needed change.

They play awful, awful football. The team shows absolutely NO promise. I am just bewildered as to how a young, finals-fringe side from 2010, 2011, can break down so badly.

Need says they're building the club from the ground up. It seems like they've turned the ignition off but are struggling to get it going again.

Is Neeld driving the cultural changes at the club? We really need to start scrutinising his vision rather than just sit back and take it as the gospel.

It's just astonishing that a team falls so far below AFL standard. Neither GC nor GWS are as convincingly smashed in certain important areas.

Melbourne hasn't lost this man consecutive quarters for 99 years.

It's suffered it's worse loss at he MCG in its history.

I'm sorry, but "rebuild" should not equate to accepted ineptness.

You don't maintain stability when said stability doesn't exist.

The club is trying to justify its stubbornness by talking a lot of garbage about stability. It's a get-out-jail-free card for Neeld and the board.

I am happy to give Neeld the year...but not with a consistent stream of 100-point beatings and records. No rebuild, no established club, no competitive environment - as minnow as said competitive environment at the club might be - can justify the brand of football this club is playing.

Its vision is bold and ambitious. And I get that. But my family has been going to the MCG for half a century. I'm a very competitive individual, and I can handle losses -- "we succeed because we fail," as Michael Jordan famously said -- but such ineptness, excused as the downtime before a promised period of "sustained success" does not sit well with me.

No club that loses games by 186, 140 points turns it around in less than a decade to win a flag.

We thought the club culture was toxic? It's the losing culture that fuels it.

Neeld wants to change this club, but he's regressing it back further than its ever been in the process. I am seriously concerned about this club's welfare.

I think I can wait for a few years as I see the plan unfolding, compared to NO CHANCE under Bailey's coaching.

With the exception of half a dozen AFL standard players, the rest of the list is not up to it.

Many top six clubs will hold and tolerate a bottom 5 or 6......we have a bottom 14 - 15.

Please understand this, rather than histrionics and media beat up.

We're all emotional and want our club to succeed, but sacking Neeld is not the answer. It will paint us as a laughing stock and completely unstable.

This is interesting. We can have the best backline or fowardline in the comp but no point if our mids cant get there hands on it. But you only get what you pay for and ATM Frawley or Watts are only worth B grade at best, we have to offer something substantial, something along the lines of the Carlton/Judd deal.

Lets say we go after Patty Dangerfield or Trent Cotchin. Who do we have that is worth someone that good...

Now I know this is going to sound ridiculous and I am sure there will be an enslaught of abuse but there is only one player that will land us a big fish...

Hogan.

There's several clubs who would snap at frawley He's worth an elite midfielder, we just need to find that player

This is interesting. We can have the best backline or fowardline in the comp but no point if our mids cant get there hands on it. But you only get what you pay for and ATM Frawley or Watts are only worth B grade at best, we have to offer something substantial, something along the lines of the Carlton/Judd deal.

Lets say we go after Patty Dangerfield or Trent Cotchin. Who do we have that is worth someone that good...

Now I know this is going to sound ridiculous and I am sure there will be an enslaught of abuse but there is only one player that will land us a big fish...

Hogan.

Shuey and Gaff for Hogan.

\

Anointed by who?

I dont remember being allowed to vote

Voting is irrelevent at the boys club its just done quietly No vote necessary like this year

Shuey and Gaff for Hogan.

What about hogan and our first round pick this year (looking like top 3) for PREMIUM like Watson or Pendles?

What about hogan and our first round pick this year (looking like top 3) for PREMIUM like Watson or Pendles?

What about keeping Hogan and our picks and throw big money on RFA?

Question what will happen when we lose to GWS?

Can we as members & supporters watch the next 19 rounds of 70,80,100pts loses?

What about keeping Hogan and our picks and throw big money on RFA?

What money and what RFA's?

What money and what RFA's?

I reckon there's some coin available.

Several delistings/retirements will free some coin.

Dal Santo is RFA and perhaps make a call to van Berlo?

Or, as you suggested, Daisy.

how do we know the players don't like neeld or that frawley doesn't have his heart in it anymore, r some of u clairvoyants

how do we know the players don't like neeld or that frawley doesn't have his heart in it anymore, r some of u clairvoyants

You watch the games and you tell me that Frawley is giving everything, or that the playing group is giving 100% at all times as a mark of respect for their coach and club?

Can't wait for the answer.

I think I can wait for a few years as I see the plan unfolding, compared to NO CHANCE under Bailey's coaching.

That's an interesting take Jumbo. The only time we've looked competitive this year was when we threw out Neelds gameplan. What are you seeing that's unfolding? At the current rate what's unfolding for me is player confidence and a year end exodus.

I think its clear that Neeld came over with a copy of the Collingwood coaching manual under his arm and started to train us to play like collingwood. Players cannot met his expectations time to review throw the plan out the window and back to basics.

Well I'm not sure why some single frawley out when the inside 50's were so high from west coast, watts wasn't playing, missing rivers, I think we saw progress round 3.

Or, as you suggested, Daisy.

hangon jumbo, i'll play for free. the merchandise will do me

That's an interesting take Jumbo. The only time we've looked competitive this year was when we threw out Neelds gameplan. What are you seeing that's unfolding? At the current rate what's unfolding for me is player confidence and a year end exodus.

Standards....that's what I'm talking about.

Accountability, fitness, skills, determination, guts.

Only 3 or 4 players display these traits as we speak.

I'm hurting like you, THBT, but we need to stabilise and give Neeld a go. We have to be a viable, stable club to attract other players.

There's another thread about our players being AFL standard - we don't have enough.

I think its clear that Neeld came over with a copy of the Collingwood coaching manual under his arm and started to train us to play like collingwood. Players cannot met his expectations time to review throw the plan out the window and back to basics.

Malthouse seems to be having some similar problems at Carlton

Well I'm not sure why some single frawley out when the inside 50's were so high from west coast, watts wasn't playing, missing rivers, I think we saw progress round 3.

Agree - defense starts from the forward line now

hangon jumbo, i'll play for free. the merchandise will do me

At least we can get you some free boots?

Bottom line, we lose to GWS - Neeld goes. Simple. I don't want to lose to that bunch of $cumbags though. In an ideal world, Neeld would last until round 15/16 and then be given the ass.

You can be a real drop kick sometimes.

Kettle calling the pot black?

Your a C grader.