Using Moloney's performance last year and this year is an incredibly bias example. You're comparing him from a year he didnt care how he played to a year where he does - not a comparison of Neeld's ability to utilize his skill sets.

This is shown in that he is averaging this year the same amount of disposals in 2009, 2010, 2011

I don't agree.

Moloney under Bailey won the B&F

Moloney under Neeld played for Casey

Moloney under Voss is playing good footy and equal to that which he played under Bailey.

Moloney hasn't changed, only the coaches.

If you think there has been improvement in our younger players why are we being beaten by an average of 87 points by non development clubs? Trengove, Grimes, Watts, Frawley, McKenzie, Strauss, Blease, Garland are no better than when he arrived and in some cases significantly worse.

Can you point to significant improvement in any area since Bailey left? I can't.

How do you think we'll go against Carlton? What would be acceptable?

But each to their own.

What ?

We're in the bottom couple for tackles, contested footy, and uncontested footy.

Tackles = we're not trying nearly hard enough, because the opposition nearly always has the ball. We have the least disposals in the league. They can at least show effort and that is gauged by your tackle count.

Contested footy = not having a crack nearly often enough.

Uncontested footy = means they're lazy, not making themselves options and they're not gut running. There's no courage to run.

If you think that they're playing to their ability you're delusional. The whackjob has drained every ounce of effort from their beings. They may not be great, but you can sheet their lack of effort firmly back to the coach. This is one dispirited lot.

A coach is their to maximise a groups talents. Mark Neeld is having the complete opposite effect.

If one stands back and looks at what is happening, then I fully understand this post and probably agree with it.

I am all for giving a guy a fair go, but that would depend totally on whether he still has the support of the players. I fear he hasn't. I don't care what they say publicly, I just wish I knew what they say and think privately. The way we are playing you could mount a strong case to say he has lost them.

I have supported the Coach until now but I am getting fearful of what might come next.

You don't need talent to do the 1%'s, you need effort. We are not giving any.

To me it looks like some players have had enough of the coach and they are just going through the motions.

What would we give to see the effort of Puopolo chasing down 3 players in one sustained effort like he did last week. Won't happen with us. He is deperate and we are not. He is selfless and we are not. He would run through a brick wall for his coach and team mates, how many of our players would get close to that mindset.

Lucky for me this won't be my decision, but I think our new CEO will have to act soon, or I fear we will be in tatters, with our our few good players wanting to leave. They are certainly playing like that.

I would love to be proved wrong but I don't think it will happen.

PS. Look at how the Port players are responding to Hinkley. Many of them were there under the previous Coach. What is different, the Coach.

What ?

We're in the bottom couple for tackles ...

No we're not. There are 4 teams below us, 3 quite a bit below us (North, GWS and Richmond). We're averaging 58 per game, compared with Collingwood (58.2) and Geelong 58.4) and are in a group of around 8 teams on very similar tackle counts.

We had one disastrous game (Essendon, 35 tackles), but apart from that, have been at or better than league averages.

We have any number of issues, but our tackle count isn't one of them.

Just to throw in another factor in this discussion, purely for interest- Macartney at the Dogs has been ignored in our posts - he appears to be getting a reasonable result from a list which has clear 'holes'.

I've put my hand up to say I've lost fairh in him and that's attracted some attacks from certain posters. That's fine. I value the club ahead of any individual, and I judge based on performances, which by even basic measures like ones that Ben refers, have gone backwards. Even from last year, which I didn't think possible.

Actions are what count, and they are speaking loud and clear. I could not fathom the argument that the scoreline against Brisbane was evidence of improvement. Anyone watching that game surely could acknowledge how much the final score flattered the performance, which again had all the hallmarks of minimal effort.

We were already going to struggle this week, but with outs of Clark, Watts, Jamar and possibly Sylvia, the result this week could be that ugly that it could all but spell the end for Neeld.

It's a difficult to say whether it would be best to make the call on Neeld now or at the end of the year, but there would surely want to be dramatic improvement for him to be coaching in 2014.

If one stands back and looks at what is happening, then I fully understand this post and probably agree with it.

I am all for giving a guy a fair go, but that would depend totally on whether he still has the support of the players. I fear he hasn't. I don't care what they say publicly, I just wish I knew what they say and think privately. The way we are playing you could mount a strong case to say he has lost them.

I have supported the Coach until now but I am getting fearful of what might come next.

You don't need talent to do the 1%'s, you need effort. We are not giving any.

To me it looks like some players have had enough of the coach and they are just going through the motions.

What would we give to see the effort of Puopolo chasing down 3 players in one sustained effort like he did last week. Won't happen with us. He is deperate and we are not. He is selfless and we are not. He would run through a brick wall for his coach and team mates, how many of our players would get close to that mindset.

Lucky for me this won't be my decision, but I think our new CEO will have to act soon, or I fear we will be in tatters, with our our few good players wanting to leave. They are certainly playing like that.

I would love to be proved wrong but I don't think it will happen.

PS. Look at how the Port players are responding to Hinkley. Many of them were there under the previous Coach. What is different, the Coach.

Well said Redleg. I believe almost every poster in this thread has MFC's interests and success at heart, in contrast to what Satyriconhome appears to believe. There are times in life when difficult decisions have to be made - in MFC's life, I believe now is one of those times, hence my support for the 'Neeld has to go' approach.

Just to throw in another factor in this discussion, purely for interest- Macartney at the Dogs has been ignored in our posts - he appears to be getting a reasonable result from a list which has clear 'holes'.

Not if you ask the doggies fans.

It's all relative man, it's all relative.

as a parting comment before I go enjoy a real life.

I believe everything that this club stands for and is gauged by effectively boils down to a singulairty. It was uttered by our illustrious coach.

" to make Melbourne the hardest team to play against "

The reality is we are by many standards the easiest. No one take us seriously. I dont. I think we're a pathetic joke of a team . By most standards we ought not even bve in the AFL.

We're past being the laughing stock we are now only pitied.

I was initially prepared to back Neeld for I thought he had the ideas. He had grit and nuggetiness to get down amongst it; to call spades spades etc. I have no idea whats gone wrong , or rather it would be easier to note what has gone right... practically nothing.

Whatever he ( MN) is doing its not working. It would have been unimaginable that we could go backwards but we have. That has to lay squarely with the coach. This then makes me wonder what Craig is doing as a Mentor come overlord of the football dept ??

I will have no qualms should Jackson take the scythe to this club.

There is some sort of cancer in this club. The more it supposedly changes the more it remains the same; successless !!

I swear even if you were trying to be abysmal the law of averages would afford a better show than we continually deliver

So this is a result of design. We are crap as a result of design and prescribed efforts.

Those that are culpable must be brought to account, and dismissed.

The time for experimentations nouveaux is over. We have to play football, real football, winning football.

The word ive left out to present is "proven" We need someone who has actually shown the nouse and ability to coach at this level. Stuff this taking on 'wet behind the ears' types

Im sorry Mark, youre time is up. You may not be alone.

The game and list are pretty much of your making, so you must take the whack.

Now im off

theres a real world out there. The MFC will always be dear to me, i will continue to be a member whilst they exist. ( why...I cant honestly tell you.

But dont ask me to bother to watch you any more or care much about what happens...not whilst you as a club dont, or seemingly dont. when a player cant be bothered chasing or tackling dont expect me to be overly concerned or take it to heart anymore.

We suposedly have talented players. Why are so may almost to a man playing below par. Is it the water ? Footy is often described as a game played being mainly between the ears. we seem to take capable young men and turn them into stymied football halfwits incapable of cognitant decision making. If it was one or two you might overlook it all but is seems systemic.

In parting heres a message for all those who have have there hand in creating the club as it exists.

Stop...desist. Youve done enough damage. If you cant put in 100% , dont put in 1%

The club needs fresh eyes and legs. It needs people who know how to succeed not just talk the talk.

Mark talks well...coaches abysmally. Not an opinion, an observation of outcomes.

We need better, and we need it quickly.

2013 is dead

cya when 2014 looms

Not if you ask the doggies fans.

It's all relative man, it's all relative.

I was looking rationally at their performance over the last 18 months - want to compare it with ours?

I was looking rationally at their performance over the last 18 months - want to compare it with ours?

Yes yes yes but thats not what I'm talking about.

We are the worst, no doubt about it but if you ask doggies fans and/or go and visit their forums they ain't happy either even though we'd be happy if the dees were up with the dogs.

it's all relative man, it's all relative.

Yes yes yes but thats not what I'm talking about.

We are the worst, no doubt about it but if you ask doggies fans and/or go and visit their forums they ain't happy either even though we'd be happy if the dees were up with the dogs.

it's all relative man, it's all relative.

I have to laugh when I hear West Coast fans say their club is at a crisis point..

I have to laugh when I hear West Coast fans say their club is at a crisis point..

it's all relative man, it's all relative.

Well bb I am sad to see you go but I understand 100% my own thoughts are very close to yours.

The MFC is on its knees.

Not sure I have the fight left in me any longer either.

I will continue to pay my membership

because I don't want it on my conscience that I had any small part in its demise.

Just like you bb I have almost lost the will to fight on.

Comment From John

Jade, you've seen many coaches in your time, how do you find Mark Neeld as a senior coach? Cheers

6:39

Hi John, he's one of the best coaches I've worked with. He's very, very passionate and very driven and a huge support to his players. That's an absolute fundamental to coaching in my humble opinion. Jade.

Well bb I am sad to see you go but I understand 100% my own thoughts are very close to yours.

The MFC is on its knees.

Not sure I have the fight left in me any longer either.

I will continue to pay my membership

because I don't want it on my conscience that I had any small part in its demise.

Just like you bb I have almost lost the will to fight on.

Don't like hearing that old dee, i hear what you're saying, I've probably only been supporting the Dees 1/3 of the time you and it's been quite dressing the past few years but that's not the Australian spirit.

Stick together, support your mates and never give up under any circumstances, We've just had ANZAC day recently and their values ring true for me right now!!

Fire up old fella! Jump on the underdog!!

the difference between us and Port Adelaide is that Port have half decent midfielders. We sadly don't.

No we're not. There are 4 teams below us, 3 quite a bit below us (North, GWS and Richmond). We're averaging 58 per game, compared with Collingwood (58.2) and Geelong 58.4) and are in a group of around 8 teams on very similar tackle counts.

We had one disastrous game (Essendon, 35 tackles), but apart from that, have been at or better than league averages.

We have any number of issues, but our tackle count isn't one of them.

...but they have a lot more of the ball.

strangely the basest fundamental in competitive sports coaching is success.

i.e I deem Jades comment innocuous yet damning.

This in itself goes to the notion noone realy knows wtf they are doing at Melbourne.

To any one at the MFC capable of listening... talk is rubbish....results are everything.

We can see the results. Time for the diahroetic verbal leakage to stop. We arent all stupid.

We can tell the difference between a win and a loss and we can see a trend for what it is.

Jackson....sharpen and swing !!!

the difference between us and Port Adelaide is that Port have half decent midfielders. We sadly don't.

Plus a new Chairman

Don't like hearing that old dee, i hear what you're saying, I've probably only been supporting the Dees 1/3 of the time you and it's been quite dressing the past few years but that's not the Australian spirit.

Stick together, support your mates and never give up under any circumstances, We've just had ANZAC day recently and their values ring true for me right now!!

Fire up old fella! Jump on the underdog!!

Trouble is Unleash Hell I have been on the under dog for the most part of 48 years.

It does get a little tiresome.

Comment From John

Jade, you've seen many coaches in your time, how do you find Mark Neeld as a senior coach? Cheers

6:39

Hi John, he's one of the best coaches I've worked with. He's very, very passionate and very driven and a huge support to his players. That's an absolute fundamental to coaching in my humble opinion. Jade.

This is disappearing way too quickly.

They have the choice which questions to answer on this thing and could easily have kept the questions team selection related, so he's chosen to support Neeld.

Some pretty solid compliments they are too.

"Hi John, he's one of the best coaches I've worked with. He's very, very passionate and very driven and a huge support to his players. That's an absolute fundamental to coaching in my humble opinion. Jade."

Comment From John

Jade, you've seen many coaches in your time, how do you find Mark Neeld as a senior coach? Cheers

6:39

Hi John, he's one of the best coaches I've worked with. He's very, very passionate and very driven and a huge support to his players. That's an absolute fundamental to coaching in my humble opinion. Jade.

?

Who's this?

Comment From John

Jade, you've seen many coaches in your time, how do you find Mark Neeld as a senior coach? Cheers

6:39

Hi John, he's one of the best coaches I've worked with. He's very, very passionate and very driven and a huge support to his players. That's an absolute fundamental to coaching in my humble opinion. Jade.

This is disappearing way too quickly.

They have the choice which questions to answer on this thing and could easily have kept the questions team selection related, so he's chosen to support Neeld.

Some pretty solid compliments they are too.

"Hi John, he's one of the best coaches I've worked with. He's very, very passionate and very driven and a huge support to his players. That's an absolute fundamental to coaching in my humble opinion. Jade."

Yeah, and Schwab has the full support of McLardy.....

Please.

if I may comment upon Olds response.

Neither of us are reliquishing our support of the club per se. We both fervently want a proud and successful Melbourne as part of this game we love.

We,,,or rather speaking for myself am just tired of the rubbish. Theres better things to do in life than pul lyour teeth out and nail your hands to posts in some sort of puiblic show of unconditional love of the Demons.

Im now a totally conditionally driven supporter.

Ill go when I can be bothered,and for 2013 thats likely a write off. Maybe the last game watched ( Essendon ) was the final straw.

Time spent away from the game has been rewarding. I have no more sado masochistic in me.

what anyone does is up to them.

I choose happiness and pleasure . If the MFC is ever capable of delivering some modicum of this then I will get interested.

til then im sorry...the MFC currently represents a waste of time and energies.

a sad thing to say....so be it