Colin drink driving x5 times the limit is what it is.

It is just not on. He has had how many chances?

Make no mistake, WYL. As I said earlier, the act is irresponsible but there are multiple factors that have led up to this point. They are factors, not excuses. They can change the light we see a crime in but they do not remove culpability from the perpetrator.

What annoys me about this entire post is this attitude of 'Well, he is no longer with us so stiff sh*t and good riddance.' It seems like some on this board seem to be enjoying the schadenfreude a little too much rather than hoping that the man and his community are able to turn everything around. I won't say depression is definitely the cause here but if it is, I hope Liam can get all the help he can get. To have people sneering at him now would only be counterproductive.

Clearly a break-through for you.

Um ... since you admit to shifting from your usual assumption, whose breakthrough is it really?

Make no mistake, WYL. As I said earlier, the act is irresponsible but there are multiple factors that have led up to this point. They are factors, not excuses. They can change the light we see a crime in but they do not remove culpability from the perpetrator.

What annoys me about this entire post is this attitude of 'Well, he is no longer with us so stiff sh*t and good riddance.' It seems like some on this board seem to be enjoying the schadenfreude a little too much rather than hoping that the man and his community are able to turn everything around. I won't say depression is definitely the cause here but if it is, I hope Liam can get all the help he can get. To have people sneering at him now would only be counterproductive.

i don't wish hardship on Liam either, but i also get very tired of people having multiple x 2 chances at redemption and then continue to flout it.

Drink driving kills & at .27 all sympathy is gone from me.

Make no mistake, WYL. As I said earlier, the act is irresponsible but there are multiple factors that have led up to this point. They are factors, not excuses. They can change the light we see a crime in but they do not remove culpability from the perpetrator.

What annoys me about this entire post is this attitude of 'Well, he is no longer with us so stiff sh*t and good riddance.' It seems like some on this board seem to be enjoying the schadenfreude a little too much rather than hoping that the man and his community are able to turn everything around. I won't say depression is definitely the cause here but if it is, I hope Liam can get all the help he can get. To have people sneering at him now would only be counterproductive.

No, they're choices - and we're all able to make them.

No, they're choices - and we're all able to make them.

And our choices are influenced by the circumstances we find ourselves in whether they are self inflicted or not. The feud that started this was not Liam's choice.

I get the feeling that she probably meant that the personal side of the issue is for the family to sort out and that the press and other "outsiders" should stay out of it (not interfere)... I would think she understands that the legal issues will have to be dealt with in the courts.

Hi Hardtack. Sure hope you're right! Maybe it's a Freudian slip when you characterised it as firstly their personal side and secondly, "legal issues to be dealt with by the courts". I haven't sensed Jurrahs' concern or responsibility for other people hurt or potentially hurt by his actions (here, MFC & maybe more) and this should mean more to a person than just "legal issues" (which I've generally noticed evil people brush off as kinda "legal technicalities").

I wonder how many people on this board who use the 'culture has nothing to do with it' line have actually lived in a different culture themselves beyond vacationing in it?

I have. Though personally I didn't say his culture had nothing to do with it, I said it shouldn't be used as an excuse. I'm also a bit sorry for him even though he appears irresponsible and uncaring toward anyone not extremely close to him.

Clearly a break-through for you.

No, I fear I also agreed with you on something else in the last few days. I must stop eating those mushrooms.

Try some, you may then agree with something I've said rather than dismiss me offensively as you've done several times.

And our choices are influenced by the circumstances we find ourselves in whether they are self inflicted or not. The feud that started this was not Liam's choice.

So whilst awaiting trial for an alledged machete attack he chooses to get behing the wheel of a motor vehicle pi55ed out of his brain. Circumstances, of course...

Sorry, but if that's how his decisions are infuenced then it's time for jail. Many other indigenous or non-indigenous persons don't get that many chances.

No sympathy. None whatsoever.

Um ... since you admit to shifting from your usual assumption, whose breakthrough is it really?

I quite often use lateral thinking to shift from my typically conservative beliefs. The triviality of Howe's behaviour at the cricket being a case in point. Or the ridiculous over-reaction to the two young radio hosts whose joke went wrong. I like to look at every situation on their merits, John. I'll naturally LEAN a certain way, but it won't stifle my want to sweep the pathways of my mind in order to get to the crux of an issue, while others simply trod a well worn blinkered path.

Thanks for your interest.

Impressive that he blew (2.7) more than his career goal per game average (2.3)

This might sound strange, but I really feel for the guy. He's the first player from his civilization, which is borderline ancient, to play AFL and he's tried to combine two alien worlds. He was lauded as a tribal leader on "men's business", but at the same time was beholden to his own tribal laws (moreso), which in part is why he's in the mess he's in, as laws such as payback for an initiated man mean much more than our "modern laws" and civil expectations. It's impossible to judge Jurrah from the cornerstone of the lives we lead.

It's too complex for me, but I feel compelled not to judge a guy whose world has caved in around him. And as much as most will lay the blame at his feet, he's in unusual circumstances and much of it has been out of his control. I expect arguments on the last sentence and I'm usually the first to state that every man is the architect of his own destiny, but I readily accept that Jurrah's circumstances can't be understood by 99% of those reading this forum.

Agree.

I have no sympathy for drink drivers or those who use violence. But Liam has gone from being one of the AFL's most amazing stories to one of total tragedy.

It just pees me off when someone gets a golden opportunity at AFL and they just flush it down the toilet.

Especially when they have bucketloads of talent, like Liam has.

Many of us would love to have the opportunity to play for the Dees.

So whilst awaiting trial for an alledged machete attack he chooses to get behing the wheel of a motor vehicle pi55ed out of his brain. Circumstances, of course...

Sorry, but if that's how his decisions are infuenced then it's time for jail. Many other indigenous or non-indigenous persons don't get that many chances.

No sympathy. None whatsoever.

I don't expect that all will take my side but I will still push my point.

Your point assumes that everything that had happened in the past year was wiped clear from the slate and that you can forget what has happened to you by just snapping your fingers. It just doesn't work that way.

Liam has lost his licence (which needed to happen), he is facing trial and may be looking at a lengthy prison sentence. Civil society will pass whatever judgement it sees fit. I find it infuriating that people who have watched Liam merely as supporters of a football club and have never met him personally, know what he has come from (guess what, I don't either) and have invested none of their own personal time into him feel they have some sort of ownership of what he does with his life. It also p***es me off that some of us here care not what happens to the real victims in all of this, the people of Yuendemu, but whinge as an outside observer who happen to have chosen a particular football club to like. What do any of these parties owe you?

I don't expect that all will take my side but I will still push my point.

Your point assumes that everything that had happened in the past year was wiped clear from the slate and that you can forget what has happened to you by just snapping your fingers. It just doesn't work that way.

Liam has lost his licence (which needed to happen), he is facing trial and may be looking at a lengthy prison sentence. Civil society will pass whatever judgement it sees fit. I find it infuriating that people who have watched Liam merely as supporters of a football club and have never met him personally, know what he has come from (guess what, I don't either) and have invested none of their own personal time into him feel they have some sort of ownership of what he does with his life. It also p***es me off that some of us here care not what happens to the real victims in all of this, the people of Yuendemu, but whinge as an outside observer who happen to have chosen a particular football club to like. What do any of these parties owe you?

i am just pi$$ed off he was driving a car whilst being 5x over the limit. I don't give a dam where he came from, that is irrelevant. I could have been taken out by that car, as well as anybody reading this thread. When your blood alcohol is at 2.7 you walk. The End. Moreso if you have an impending.courtcase of serious charges awaiting you.

Lay Low is the advice.

i am just pi$$ed off he was driving a car whilst being 5x over the limit. I don't give a dam where he came from, that is irrelevant. I could have been taken out by that car, as well as anybody reading this thread. When your blood alcohol is at 2.7 you walk. The End. Moreso if you have an impending.courtcase of serious charges awaiting you.

Lay Low is the advice.

And my point is 'Is he in the right frame of mind to make those choices?'. To the unaffected readers of this post, it would seem clear cut. If he is struggling with mental illness, as has been implied, the most logical choices don't come as easily as you would think. He has gotten his whack and he may get a further one after his trial. Let's just hope he can get his act together rather than making trite comments like 'I'm glad he's not with us.' and 'Thank god we got rid of him'.

Impressive that he blew (2.7) more than his career goal per game average (2.3)

It was .27 Einstein.

It was .27 Einstein.

i'm slightly concerned you took my joke seriously.

And my point is 'Is he in the right frame of mind to make those choices?'. To the unaffected readers of this post, it would seem clear cut. If he is struggling with mental illness, as has been implied, the most logical choices don't come as easily as you would think. He has gotten his whack and he may get a further one after his trial. Let's just hope he can get his act together rather than making trite comments like 'I'm glad he's not with us.' and 'Thank god we got rid of him'.

stop making excuses. Let him work out whether his mind is in the right place whilst walking.

Anybody behind the wheel of a car is responsible for their actions.

We are talking a probationary licence in this case as well.

Here we have Chapter 9 in the real Liam Jurrah story.

Dam that book..should never have been printed when it was.

i am just pi$$ed off he was driving a car whilst being 5x over the limit. I don't give a dam where he came from, that is irrelevant. I could have been taken out by that car, as well as anybody reading this thread. When your blood alcohol is at 2.7 you walk. The End. Moreso if you have an impending.courtcase of serious charges awaiting you.

Lay Low is the advice.

Geez WYL....Don't tell me that not one poster on this site has driven over .05 in their life time.....I admit that I have (a lot of years ago now).......It's very easy to critisise the young people of today now that we are older and wiser.....When your young you are invinable and nothing will happen to me sort of attitude....Easy to sit at your computer and preach.....

stop making excuses. Let him work out whether his mind is in the right place whilst walking.

Anybody behind the wheel of a car is responsible for their actions.

We are talking a probationary licence in this case as well.

Here we have Chapter 9 in the real Liam Jurrah story.

Dam that book..should never have been printed when it was.

I'm not making excuses. I'm putting things in perspective. If I were making excuses, wouldn't I be advocating he be let off scot free? I've said at least 3 times that what he did was irresponsible but he needs support, as well as the people from Yuendemu who have been effected by this imbroglio. If he is suffering from depression, that should change the light this should be seen in. That doesn't mean he should get his licence back, have assault charges dropped or be nominated for Prime Minister but it should make people think about the sh***y situation he is in and have some compassion for it.

Geez WYL....Don't tell me that not one poster on this site has driven over .05 in their life time.....I admit that I have (a lot of years ago now).......It's very easy to critisise the young people of today now that we are older and wiser.....When your young you are invinable and nothing will happen to me sort of attitude....Easy to sit at your computer and preach.....

.27 is not just being over .05 Boss. At that reading you would have very poor Judgement. A serious session shall we say.

Yes i drove over the limit once or twice. But when i was hammered i was happily thrown into a taxi. Large difference.

.27 is not just being over .05 Boss. At that reading you would have very poor Judgement. A serious session shall we say.

Yes i drove over the limit once or twice. But when i was hammered i was happily thrown into a taxi. Large difference.

Glad you could afford a taxi......I couldn't then and so ran the gauntlet......"When the drink is in the brain goes missing" my old mum used to say...........With that reading it just shows that LJ's judgement was very poor.....So he drove....

I'm not making excuses. I'm putting things in perspective. If I were making excuses, wouldn't I be advocating he be let off scot free? I've said at least 3 times that what he did was irresponsible but he needs support, as well as the people from Yuendemu who have been effected by this imbroglio. If he is suffering from depression, that should change the light this should be seen in. That doesn't mean he should get his licence back, have assault charges dropped or be nominated for Prime Minister but it should make people think about the sh***y situation he is in and have some compassion for it.

Liam is in a bad place right now because HE chose to go back home last year on a friday night.

He left a very supporting network that even went to his home so as to understand his life better.

When Liam left on that friday night he knew what was going to occur, but he kept walking.

He made the choice to leave this support group & ever since then it has gone from bad to worse.

He blew it.

Glad you could afford a taxi......I couldn't then and so ran the gauntlet......"When the drink is in the brain goes missing" my old mum used to say...........With that reading it just shows that LJ's judgement was very poor.....So he drove....

yes he did .27 on P Plates.

He should be looking at jail for that. P Plates is 00 last time i asked a young un.

Your old mum was right, and i am no angel. But .27 is a big drink...

Glad you could afford a taxi......I couldn't then and so ran the gauntlet......"When the drink is in the brain goes missing" my old mum used to say...........With that reading it just shows that LJ's judgement was very poor.....So he drove....

I think it's pretty safe to say that when you hit 0.27 you do not have any judgement at all... it's a shame his companions, assuming he was with others at the time and assuming they weren't as far gone, didn't stop him. That's not making an excuse for him by the way... just stating a pure and simple fact.