Yep .Martin has the skills and the technique to go off and play in a flag for another club now.

He's ready to go.

Next year or three we can watch Gawn and Spencer make mistakes while Stef kick arse somewhere else.

We're good at that. Jolly, Simmonds....

What a joy it will be watching Gawn and Spencer.

I hope Gawn has some luck with his body because watching Spenc all year I won't be able to do.

Simmonds? Seriously???

Simmonds? Seriously???

A grand final player.

A grand final player.

Well...until that dog act by Long.

Well, yes and no - a couple of horrific injuries stalled Whitey (kicked in the face and the bleeding shin EVERY game) but the clincher was the line across the centre circle that negated his leap. I agree, wasn't a heavy body player.

Jamar got three years because he 'protects' space and plays a disciplined role.

What would you know you Pl' f676 ... sorry jumbo, I'm playin' the fool.

My slant is we've always played the game far too soft as a club culture & have always preferred the Hawthorn model since the early 90's.

So when we had the likes of Yze, white, robbo, bruce, etc, I was just shaking my head at where we were ever going to go in September. Spring time pretenders, IMO.

Only Neita & Wrecker, Jnr Mac, & godfrey were the like of where I wanted us to go, in direction terms.

Of course we needed to have class & skill as well, but when the soft players are the revered players,, & the ones who go in head first don't get the major share of respect & acknowledgement, then the culture will follow the 'outside' type players & our recruits will notice this and do likewise.

Before you know it, we have a team of players who won't do the 1%ers or Win the hardball.

And then the culture is shot.

This is a simple way of how I generally look to the players. Courage for the hardball first & the willingness to help & protect your teamates.

What would you know you Pl' f676 ... sorry jumbo, I'm playin' the fool.

My slant is we've always played the game far too soft as a club culture & have always preferred the Hawthorn model since the early 90's.

So when we had the likes of Yze, white, robbo, bruce, etc, I was just shaking my head at where we were ever going to go in September. Spring time pretenders, IMO.

Only Neita & Wrecker, Jnr Mac, & godfrey were the like of where I wanted us to go, in direction terms.

Of course we needed to have class & skill as well, but when the soft players are the revered players,, & the ones who go in head first don't get the major share of respect & acknowledgement, then the culture will follow the 'outside' type players & our recruits will notice this and do likewise.

Before you know it, we have a team of players who won't do the 1%ers or Win the hardball.

And then the culture is shot.

This is a simple way of how I generally look to the players. Courage for the hardball first & the willingness to help & protect your teamates.

I know where you're coming from - this club had some of the hardest players going around years ago. Tingay, Wight, Stynes, Jackson, Grinter, Lovett, Lyon....the list goes on.

But, alas, they kept on running into bloody Hawthorn.

I know where you're coming from - this club had some of the hardest players going around years ago. Tingay, Wight, Stynes, Jackson, Grinter, Lovett, Lyon....the list goes on.

But, alas, they kept on running into bloody Hawthorn.

Do you two always answer each others posts and reply for one another??

Gee, wouldn't be the same person would it??

I really do think we would be very foolish to move martin onto another club. These 2 videos are a top example as to why he is such a valuable player to us!

There is only one other ruckman i know who can do the things he can consistently, and that is naitanui! Martin is a gem and is one to keep

I really do think we would be very foolish to move martin onto another club. These 2 videos are a top example as to why he is such a valuable player to us!

There is only one other ruckman i know who can do the things he can consistently, and that is naitanui! Martin is a gem and is one to keep

I have said the same thing YDE i think Martin can ruck well enough in his limited opportunity and has that NN type of ability to gain a clearance ect. He is so far more Athletic than Jamar it is not funny. Jamar having 3 years may hurt us long term imo.

BUT to get something good you need to give something good and we have Spencer (who is capable to fill in) Gawn who just needs luck and time and if we need it Clark and Sellar so Martin as a ruck is something we can afford to lose for a good deal

I just hope he isnt the next Mumford/Jolly

Martin plays his best footy in the ruck, but unfortunately Jamar has 3 years to go on his contract.

Martin is expendable, because he's not a dangerous forward. It's all about what you can get for him. As he's contracted Melbourne have the whip hand.

why the moderators delete posts which are 'no balls' ie just outside the white line, and allow our players to be called 'spencil' and pea-heart is beyond me. these are the lowest form of supporters.

why the moderators delete posts which are 'no balls' ie just outside the white line, and allow our players to be called 'spencil' and pea-heart is beyond me. these are the lowest form of supporters.

His teammates call him "spencil". His girlfriend on the red-carpet interview on the club's website called him "spencil".

Do you two always answer each others posts and reply for one another??

Gee, wouldn't be the same person would it??

Not only are you wrong, your having a somewhat paranoid thought. Why, because you can't control other people, & nor should you be able to inflict your wishes on others.

If you want to inflict, then do something where it's OK to do so. Go & play footy & inflict on the game.

I have said the same thing YDE i think Martin can ruck well enough in his limited opportunity and has that NN type of ability to gain a clearance ect. He is so far more Athletic than Jamar it is not funny. Jamar having 3 years may hurt us long term imo.

BUT to get something good you need to give something good and we have Spencer (who is capable to fill in) Gawn who just needs luck and time and if we need it Clark and Sellar so Martin as a ruck is something we can afford to lose for a good deal

I just hope he isnt the next Mumford/Jolly

as the other ruckman develop (gawn, spencer) jamar will definitely be passed by them. atm Martin should be our preferred option over jamar, i would really hate to see him go, and as you said become the next jolly or mumford. we also shouldn't want to move ruckman on as what would happen if a few went down injured???

as the other ruckman develop (gawn, spencer) jamar will definitely be passed by them. atm Martin should be our preferred option over jamar, i would really hate to see him go, and as you said become the next jolly or mumford. we also shouldn't want to move ruckman on as what would happen if a few went down injured???

It's not just the rucking that's the issue, YDE.

It's about the 1% percenters that Neeld now demands and expects.

It's not just the rucking that's the issue, YDE.

It's about the 1% percenters that Neeld now demands and expects.

Are you suggesting Martin doesn't do the 1%ers that Neeld expects from his players?

Are you suggesting Martin doesn't do the 1%ers that Neeld expects from his players?

Yep.

Yep.

And you know this how... ?

And you know this how... ?

Following his career.

Watching him play.

Opinion.

Discussion.

Following his career.

Watching him play.

Opinion.

Discussion.

Well, I have done the first two and been a part of the last two nouns - and I don't agree.

Martin is value, but you have got to give something to get something.

And whoever said he prefers No.1 ruck is right - he needs it.

Edited September 16, 201212 yr by rpfc

Following his career.

Watching him play.

Opinion.

Discussion.

You can take the first two out. Clearly you haven't watched him play closely enough. So let's have a discussion on your opinion. The fact of the matter is that Martin, when fit this season, played in every game possible. Neeld showed us all that, if you didn't do exactly what was required of you, then you would be dropped from the side. Sam Blease knows this. Brent Moloney knows this better than any. IF Neeld believed that Martin was lazy, wasn't chasing, wasn't putting in the 1%ers then he wouldn't have been so quick to play him. It's that simple. He would have played Spencer or even given Fitzpatrick more of an opportunity if he wasn't doing the basic team things that are now, finally, essential to our side.

There is still plenty of improvement to come in his game and other teams wouldn't, supposedly, be so interested in acquiring him if they didn't believe he had plenty to offer. Unless we get a large offer for him that's too good to refuse then he is well worth holding on to and seeing that improvement come over the next few seasons.

You can take the first two out. Clearly you haven't watched him play closely enough. So let's have a discussion on your opinion. The fact of the matter is that Martin, when fit this season, played in every game possible. Neeld showed us all that, if you didn't do exactly what was required of you, then you would be dropped from the side. Sam Blease knows this. Brent Moloney knows this better than any. IF Neeld believed that Martin was lazy, wasn't chasing, wasn't putting in the 1%ers then he wouldn't have been so quick to play him. It's that simple. He would have played Spencer or even given Fitzpatrick more of an opportunity if he wasn't doing the basic team things that are now, finally, essential to our side.

There is still plenty of improvement to come in his game and other teams wouldn't, supposedly, be so interested in acquiring him if they didn't believe he had plenty to offer. Unless we get a large offer for him that's too good to refuse then he is well worth holding on to and seeing that improvement come over the next few seasons.

Let's agree to disagree on your first sentence.

Now, let's discuss YOUR opinion. Martin did not set the world on fire when he was available - at other times he was languishing @ Casey. Next year will be his 5th or 6th year on the list.

When you say there'll be 'improvement come over the next few seasons,' how long are you prepared to give him? 6, 7, 8, years? Michael Newton time? I don't think you've watched him play closely enough, or you're not sure how Neeld wants to develop this team.

'Other' clubs are showing interest in him? Any deal will do.

Let's agree to disagree on your first sentence.

Now, let's discuss YOUR opinion. Martin did not set the world on fire when he was available - at other times he was languishing @ Casey. Next year will be his 5th or 6th year on the list.

When you say there'll be 'improvement come over the next few seasons,' how long are you prepared to give him? 6, 7, 8, years? Michael Newton time? I don't think you've watched him play closely enough, or you're not sure how Neeld wants to develop this team.

'Other' clubs are showing interest in him? Any deal will do.

Just because someone has been on the list for 5-6 years does not mean that improvement cannot be made. The Juice Newton comparison is not flash, as both are very different players and I would easily suggest that Martin has shown far more in his time at Melbourne than Juice every did. Martin is still a guy who, with the right coaching, can continue to improve upon his game and be a handy component to our side going forward.

I know exactly how Neeld wants to develop this team and, like I said earlier, Martin would not have been playing in the side if Neeld felt he wasn't doing what was asked of him, plain and simple.

Just because someone has been on the list for 5-6 years does not mean that improvement cannot be made. The Juice Newton comparison is not flash, as both are very different players and I would easily suggest that Martin has shown far more in his time at Melbourne than Juice every did. Martin is still a guy who, with the right coaching, can continue to improve upon his game and be a handy component to our side going forward.

I know exactly how Neeld wants to develop this team and, like I said earlier, Martin would not have been playing in the side if Neeld felt he wasn't doing what was asked of him, plain and simple.

Half a dozen or so players got games this year to see where they were at.

Martin failed to flatter in any of his games.

Martin to collingwood for wellingham + 2nd round pick (would free up their slary cap and in this situation it would be a sellers market)

spencer +2nd round (FAcompo not viney f/s) to collingwood for wellingham (could free up jolly to do the brown role)

i would prefer the latter but would accept the former.

Melbourne quite simply just do not have enough players which other teams want and if we want to be active traders then i'll repeat what has been repeated 30ish times...you have to give something good to get something good