massage it any way you like but Chip has had a very ordinary year by his standards

if you went to games it would be obvious

Not up to his AA year but still our best defender. With the amount of ball coming in and the changes made to personal in our defence he has held up pretty well.

The best defences have come unstuck when under pressure this year, even the mighty WC with Glass one game there looked second rate when their mid fielders lost control of the game (not sure which one now). The cats have been shaky at times with their great, experienced defence and look at the Tiges so called much improved defence (never really believed that one), again when their mids lost control the defence fell apart.

With what many believe to be the worst mids in the comp I think Frawley does a massive job and it's good to see Tommy Mac stepping up to help.

Pavlich kicked 4 on him at Etihad from 57 inside 50's. I think its the only time he has lowered his colours and even that could be debated.

4 was it? Okay, I wasn't sure - no debate from me.

Chippa's been magnificent this year. Sometimes, it must feel like 100 footies are coming at him.

Not quite sure if it's T Macs skills that are poor, but it's his decision making that kills him.

Some players can get the footy, have a good look around, check themselves out on the scoreboard, then casually hit a target lace out. McDonald constantly runs himself into trouble

Both, I reckon. His decision making is terrible at times (e.g. kicking across goal yesterday in the fourth), but his skills are no good either. He ran out of defence yesterday, saw a player free, went to handball, and completely missed him.

He's 19, so there's obviously plenty of time to fix these problems, and there are far greater concerns at our club than McDonald, but I hope he can work on these two aspects because they might hold him back from being an absolute star.

Both, I reckon. His decision making is terrible at times (e.g. kicking across goal yesterday in the fourth), but his skills are no good either. He ran out of defence yesterday, saw a player free, went to handball, and completely missed him.

He's 19, so there's obviously plenty of time to fix these problems, and there are far greater concerns at our club than McDonald, but I hope he can work on these two aspects because they might hold him back from being an absolute star.

I think his decision-making is not as bad as his execution. If he'd switched it successfully to Jetta, we could have taken it up the other end, but the 40m pass fell well short. He's got a very high ball drop.

Tom has had a greatv season and we see great 200+ game potential, but he must improve his kicking. Unpressured turnovers have led to goals to the opposition on many occasion. He has probably had more of the ball than Chip but I am not sure if he has been better.

However, Rivers has been our best defender this year by a mile. He has played forward on a few occasions but his defensive play has been outstanding at times. The B&F is probably out of Jones, Rivers and Howe.

Tom and Chip are both guns and will be a part of our revival; Chip is better at the moment and as the rest of the team improves, and he is surrounded by some better players, he will get better too. Tom will just get better and better as he gets more experience, he already has the confidence. I just love the way they take the game on, like Blease does in the forward line.

Kidding yourself if you think T Mac has had a better year than Frawley. He's been given some soft opponents whilst Frawley has taken the best forward and often Rivers or Sellar took the second forward. Tom will be a nice player but still has work to do defensively as well as on his ball work.

I think his decision-making is not as bad as his execution. If he'd switched it successfully to Jetta, we could have taken it up the other end, but the 40m pass fell well short. He's got a very high ball drop.

That decision was no good. He should never have gone across goal with any sort of pressure on the receiver. That's just a dumb kick, whether you're Tom McDonald or Luke Hodge.

A perspective for any of this.... who ( in their right mind) would currently volunteer to play in our defence ?

This 'Frawley's had a poor year' is getting a little tiresome. He consistently beats his opponents and on bad days breaks even. Our only A grade player, outside of Clark (if his form continues next year).

Tommy Mac has come on this year and has become a very good player one-on-one, but still has nothing on Chip. His decision making and foot skills are easily the worst in our 22 too. I'm glad he's come on, but christ he'd better learn to kick otherwise he's a glorified Warnock.

Tommy will be a great player. You must remember that he had played one game before this year! His consistency has been excellent. Yes, his kicking and decision making must improve, but it should with good coaching. Four years ago we would have said Chip was our worst kick. Now he is a solid kick and even kicks out at times. Tommy reminds me of Chip - excellent defensive skills, good evasion and a willingness to take on their opponents.

This 'Frawley's had a poor year' is getting a little tiresome. He consistently beats his opponents and on bad days breaks even. Our only A grade player, outside of Clark (if his form continues next year).

Tommy Mac has come on this year and has become a very good player one-on-one, but still has nothing on Chip. His decision making and foot skills are easily the worst in our 22 too. I'm glad he's come on, but christ he'd better learn to kick otherwise he's a glorified Warnock.

I see this as a bit of a compliment to Frawley. Chip is all class and has played fairly well this year but well under his best IMO, which tells what a class player he is.

Tommy Mac has had a good year but the turnovers are unforgivable - the amount of goals scored against us each week via turnovers is just depressing and he is a big contributor. Fix the kicking and he will be a very good player.

I wouldn't mind seeing him have a go up forward in the last couple of games either.

With all the reference to turnover, just a query

as it seems to be related to disposal

I can recall saying when watching GLyon one day that a champion can make a mark or contest out of a poor disposal, (he received plenty of poor delivery)

I watched the champions a little more closely and you can see that this happens

Perhaps its what makes Mitch so good he gets to the contest

and while in a different context its what makes Watts a bit special

better skilled players can get the ball irrespective of where or how it comes as thats where their effort is directed As they become recognised by their team mates their disposal improves as their teammates knows they will get it and where they intend to give it?

Any thoughts?

I STILL See TMac as Our CHF, in the leadup role like Cloke plays his game.

And I still see Cook as the CHB with his calm decision making & elite foot passing to teammates. He can read the play and won't be as Hunted.

They could rotate positions on an as needs basis.

Clarke as the Forward Pocket/2ndRuck.

IMO, we could use Grundy.

Kidding yourself if you think T Mac has had a better year than Frawley. He's been given some soft opponents whilst Frawley has taken the best forward and often Rivers or Sellar took the second forward. Tom will be a nice player but still has work to do defensively as well as on his ball work.

As he should have been given, as he should still be playing the flank learning. So to be playing the Key post already, is ahead of schedule.

He'll get his big jobs to do with time. Another 12 months, or a bit more down back, before pushing forward, I hope.

Watts may slot into the CHB post for some occasions as well, when he gets bigger. I can see Watts as a Swingman.

Cook, I'd like to see go back to the defence.