Rhino, you forgot Joel Macdonald too! GWS need key defenders. We love Coniglio co's he's a Victorian

Doh.

Ah. But did Coniglio barrack for Melbourne as a child?

So of the uncontracted players today.

Playing out the season

Liam Jurrah - hoping to do well tomorrow for Casey.

Brent Moloney - not alot on display, subbed of at 3/4 time. SELL

Jared Rivers - solid game suited his ability to read play , BUY

Ricky Petterd - hoping to do well tomorrow for Casey.

Joel Macdonald - did some good things but skill tester... HOLD

Lynden Dunn - some good body work. HOLD

Matthew Bate - made good space early, some kicks were not to advantage HOLD

James Sellar - Versatile big man who spent time in ruck, forward and back. HOLD

Troy Davis.- hoping to do well tomorrow for Casey.

Out for year

Clint Bartram,

Jamie Bennell

i reckon Dunn might have found a spot in the backline. keep for one year. as much as i dont mind bate i think he will go along woth macdonald who i love his effort and guts.

We love Coniglio co's he's a Victorian

Don't tell his family, they think he is a West Australian.

Dunn, Petterd, Bate and Bennell can all go. So glad to hear they're all out of contract.

Edit: Moloney surely is in trouble too.

i reckon Dunn might have found a spot in the backline. keep for one year. as much as i dont mind bate i think he will go along woth macdonald who i love his effort and guts.

I feel a little unclean, but I also reckon Dunn can be a player in the back-line in a decent side.

I'd keep.

Yes, yes, I know ...

I feel a little unclean, but I also reckon Dunn can be a player in the back-line in a decent side.

I'd keep.

Yes, yes, I know ...

Yeah, I have also had similar thoughts.

Oddly enough I can't stop shaking my head when I think it...

We do need big bodies who are useful.

Which leads me to...MacDonald.

Just a journeyman but he can be effective at times. Wish he would get less of it though, he can kick it like a mule. And I taking the literal interpretation of how a mule would kick...

He's not a great kick is what I am trying to say.

With that said - gotta cut somebody.

*Shudder*...

People are being sucked in by Dunn again. Happened in 2010, we gave him a new contract, and he repaid us with nothing.

Now, we get to the end of another dud year, we have few shining lights so any half-decent performance stands out, Dunn manages one or two games of not being as totally useless as usual, and people begin to take his mature frame as an indication of ability.

Dunn doesn't use his frame, so who cares if he has it. All he does is point and yell at everyone else to get in position.

Yeah, I have also had similar thoughts.

Oddly enough I can't stop shaking my head when I say it...

We do need big bodies who are useful.

Which leads me to...MacDonald.

Just a journeyman but he can be effective at times. Which he would get less of it though, he can kick it like a mule. And I taking the literal interpretation of how a mule would kick...

He's not a great kick is what I am trying to say.

With that said - gotta cut somebody.

I agree we should keep Dunn and give him a settled chance.

I'm unsure about Macdonald.

I still believe Bate is worth consideration.

I agree we should keep Dunn and give him a settled chance.

I'm unsure about Macdonald.

I still believe Bate is worth consideration.

If it were up to me I would get upgrades on all three in FA or Delisted FA but get them on one-year deals if we couldn't attract that talent.

They are all NQR and we can't keep them all. I think Bate is gone, and I think MacDonald and Dunn might be fighting for the same spot, if there is one.

Jeez, I really hope we can attract some decent FAs...

Note: if a club offers Bate and Dunn more minutes they will be off I would say.

If it were up to me I would get upgrades on all three in FA or Delisted FA but get them on one-year deals if we couldn't attract that talent.

They are all NQR and we can't keep them all. I think Bate is gone, and I think MacDonald and Dunn might be fighting for the same spot, if there is one.

Jeez, I really hope we can attract some decent FAs...

Note: if a club offers Bate and Dunn more minutes they will be off I would say.

Fair call - I just like what I see in Bate at times.

Fair call - I just like what I see in Bate at times.

Well, that's the thing - 'at times.'

It's the same with Dunn, and Petterd, and most of the OOC players we have - we get teased, see the potential and expect more than what they can deliver.

I thought Bate was going to become a player, but he is a jack of all trades and a master of no position on the field. Too slow for a wing, not big enough for tall forward, seemingly can't spread well enough for a midfield role.

Same with Dunn - only worse. He has played, accumulatively, about 1 season worth of decent footy and considering he is nearing 100 games that ain't great...

He doesn't spread well either, isn't tall enough to do what he wants in the forward line and I, personally, cannot stand the jumper punching aggro that people think is intimidating. It's more insolent than tough - go and get hard footy - that's tough. Joel Selwood is tough. Lynden Dunn is not.

I would do a para for Petterd but I just realised I am wasting all my energy on the 35th, and 36th player on our list and that is pointless.

Depth I hear people cry?

Depth is valuable to teams with stars that have depth players around them, but depth for a team like us is akin to putting lipstick on a pig.

Well, that's the thing - 'at times.'

It's the same with Dunn, and Petterd, and most of the OOC players we have - we get teased, see the potential and expect more than what they can deliver.

I thought Bate was going to become a player, but he is a jack of all trades and a master of no position on the field. Too slow for a wing, not big enough for tall forward, seemingly can't spread well enough for a midfield role.

Same with Dunn - only worse. He has played, accumulatively, about 1 season worth of decent footy and considering he is nearing 100 games that ain't great...

He doesn't spread well either, isn't tall enough to do what he wants in the forward line and I, personally, cannot stand the jumper punching aggro that people think is intimidating. It's more insolent than tough - go and get hard footy - that's tough. Joel Selwood is tough. Lynden Dunn is not.

I would do a para for Petterd but I just realised I am wasting all my energy on the 35th, and 36th player on our list and that is pointless.

Depth I hear people cry?

Depth is valuable to teams with stars that have depth players around them, but depth for a team like us is akin to putting lipstick on a pig.

I can't argue with your assessment - there is just a part of me that feels Dunn and Bate were never really given a fair chance in their best possies, but I guess that's football - ultimately, players have to make their own chances.

I feel a little unclean, but I also reckon Dunn can be a player in the back-line in a decent side.

I'd keep.

Yes, yes, I know ...

I must admit I didn't see today's game, but what does Dunn offer in the back-line that makes him keepable? In my mind based on observations in recent weeks, once we've got a fullish side to choose from he'd be competing with Joel Macdonald for the one spot. Maybe I'm being blindsided by my own prejudice, but I don't know that I could ever fully trust Dunn to compete 100% all the time; I don't feel the same way about Macdonald although obviously he's NQR in his own way (i.e. average disposal and one every eight games or so he'll outdo himself for genuinely terrible performances).

Still feels like choosing between a turd salad and a turd sandwich. Dunn's strung a few good games together; well and good; he did that once before and followed it up with a year and a half of complete cow-pat. It'd take a lot to convince me that he's worth keeping.

I can't argue with your assessment - there is just a part of me that feels Dunn and Bate were never really given a fair chance in their best possies, but I guess that's football - ultimately, players have to make their own chances.

I think if Moloney, Jones, and Trengove were not there - Bate would be a centreman - which is what he was as a kid. So sometimes circumstance plays a part.

And Dunn just irks me - he is a neat footy player who is very versatile, but he doesn't excel anywhere and he has to - as a 25 year old with 100 games he has to excel somewhere.

I know you don't like hearing this but Neeld has been good for throwing players around and trying to find them a home. McDonald was thrown into defence after running with the forwards at the start of the year in Preseason. Garland has found some confidence up forward that will come in handy when we are better (and got a three year contract out of that versatility), and Grimes has been moved on to the ball (the prayers of a few Landers answered there). Moloney has had a few roles, the quickness of the game is hampering him, and it would seem that he has some work to do. So it doesn't always work out.

If I were in charge -

Delist - MacDonald, Petterd, Dunn, Bate, Bartram, Bennell, Davis, Spencer

Re-Sign - Jurrah, Moloney, Rivers, Strauss, Bail, Blease, Sellar

Delist - add Jetta to that list

*Shudder*...

Dunn doesn't use his frame, so who cares if he has it. All he does is point and yell at everyone else to get in position.

You have mistaken him for Moloney. He is our pointer.

I think if Moloney, Jones, and Trengove were not there - Bate would be a centreman - which is what he was as a kid. So sometimes circumstance plays a part.

And Dunn just irks me - he is a neat footy player who is very versatile, but he doesn't excel anywhere and he has to - as a 25 year old with 100 games he has to excel somewhere.

I know you don't like hearing this but Neeld has been good for throwing players around and trying to find them a home. McDonald was thrown into defence after running with the forwards at the start of the year in Preseason. Garland has found some confidence up forward that will come in handy when we are better (and got a three year contract out of that versatility), and Grimes has been moved on to the ball (the prayers of a few Landers answered there). Moloney has had a few roles, the quickness of the game is hampering him, and it would seem that he has some work to do. So it doesn't always work out.

Actually, we are at least partly on the same page - I knew Garland was recruited as a forward and was surprised he wasn't given a chance there earlier. Similarly with Grimes - I thought the intention was always to make him into a midfielder. As for the rest, yeah, circumstance, ultimate talent, who knows ....

You have mistaken him for Moloney. He is our pointer.

Lol, true, they both are.

It's been suggested that there could be 10-12 changes to our list next year, that could be understating it, particularly with the rookie list to be cut by 2.

Not all of this will happen but it's possible (I'm assuming we re-sign Blease, Strauss, Spencer and Bail as reported):

Out (11-17):

FA (3-5): Green, Rivers, Moloney, Dunn, Bate (a couple may stay)

Trade (2): Gysberts, Cook - probably have trade value

Delist (4-8): Bartram, Bennell, Petterd, Jurrah, Macdonald, Sellar, Jetta, Davis (maybe half will stay and some may be tradable e.g. Warnock)

Rookie delist (2): Couch, Lawrence

In (15):

Draft (7): 3, 4, 13, 30, 48, 66, 84 - some of these will be trades for more mature players e.g. Boak, Caddy

FA (3): Cloke, ???, ???

Trade (2): players for Gysberts and Cook rather than picks - we've already got plenty and Neeld wants more maturity

Rookie promotion (2*): Nicholson, Evans (retain Magner, Sheahan, Williams)

Rookie draft (3): 3, 21, 39 (Bartram and Bennell might be re-drafted because they're injured)

Morton, Sylvia, Davey and Fitzpatrick are all contracted but aren't locks to be at the club next year.

Delist - add Jetta to that list

Not after yesterday-he just bought himself another year .

Who would talk Davey, Fitzpatrick and/or Morton? Sylvia would have some trade value.

I reckon I would rookie Davey and Morton to free up lists spots. On 2011/12 form I cant see (and I hope they dont) them play for MFC again.

The reasons why I am questioning the decision making;

Firstly, it disgusts me that players like Moloney can even be considered to be traded. I advocate him leaving the club, but as a free agent he can't be traded. In fact I demand that he doesn not get another contract. But then again, I saw this well before you did.

Secondly, I am dumbfounded but the constant mistakes that are being made by decisions makers, eg, Bailey over Sheedy, Cook over Darling, Neeld over Malthouse, P.Gardner as President, for example. What mistakes? The Sheedy decision was mainly money, drafting mistakes happen, Malthouse wasn;t going to coach, who else was going to step in if Gardner didn't - more Szondy? Trying to re-write history just makes you look like more of an idiot.

Thirdly, The thought that we have to go thru another 4 year rebuild. We're building and there is no definitive timeframe - it's what teams in the bottom 4 have to do. But what do you see as an alternative? Your impatience is ignorant and counterproductive, yet I don't expect you to realise it.

Fourth, that many supporters just accept this shite and actually have blind faith in the process. Right. And you just instinctively mistrust the process and make unreasonable demands, instead of considering LOGIC.

Who is being made accountable for the state we are in. WHO? Bailey was, for a start. And Barry Prendergast. The assistant coaches and the fitness staff.

And now we are blaming the players for our woes. No, it is a cumulative result of many factors. But the players are held responsible for their own performances, as they should be. Not making excuses for them, are we?

I wasnt born yesterday, and it seems that people at high levels at the club and now getting desperate, so now a player cull is on the cards, in an effort to free up some space and money so we can purchase some mercinaries in an effort to salvage something.

Would you prefer we keep to minimal list changes??

Mitch Clark was a "mercenary" - what do you think of him so far?

Should we be trying to salvage whatever we can from a pile of crap, or should we be doing whatever we can to get a great list?

I know what makes sense to me.

How am I meant to feel? Disappointed at our performance, and determined to understand our predicament, what we are trying to do, and how you can assist the club in getting better. Like most supporters do.

Or do I just blindly believe in the brains trust?

Few people blindly believe in the brains trust, but I'd say it's better than having blind disbelief in their ability, and making unrealistic demands.

I, and many others are justified in expressing our somewhat 'defiant' point of view.

You're practically alone in your simple views, and it's a good thing for this footy club and all it's supporters.

You don't make very convincing arguments built on logic, so I'm going to disagree with you completely.

I feel a little unclean, but I also reckon Dunn can be a player in the back-line in a decent side.

I'd keep.

Yes, yes, I know ...

I agree, but he'd only last another year or 2.

Still, I'd keep.

Keep Dunn.

Efficient by foot. His booming kick can break lines off the back flank.

He's much better than Petterd, Bate, Bennell etc