On 29/07/2012 at 08:19, Fat Tony said:

Disagree. Neeld's game plan is a massive outlier compared to the rest of the competition. We have been way too predictable and slow in our ball movement, which is a complete 180 on where we have come from. No other team is so averse to either using the corridor or using handball as an attacking weapon.

I agree with what your saying. Sadly the "outlier" game plan might even be considered cause for confidence if he wasn't merely doing a cut and paste job from where he used to work.

I'll wait and see. I'm not in the Daniher hating class because he did bring the club results short of the ultimate. I gave Daniher some slack during parts of his stewardship (1999, 2001, 2003) as he had earned some credit by taking the team to finals in the past. By 2007, I realized that he was probably a good coach who got the best out of what he had to work with but was never going to win a premiership at Melbourne.

With untested guys, like Bailey and Neeld, measurable progress needs to be shown. We all ultimately live and die by the results we produce no matter what field we work in. I will stick with Neeld until I see results that prove he is not the man for the job. I think those results will be on full display by round 22 next year.

  On 29/07/2012 at 07:28, bandicoot said:

A 'good' coach would have taken the positives from the previous era and built on them.

Instead Neeld came in with a stick of dynamite and completely blew away any trace of the old regime.

Poor management in my opinion. That is why we have only won 2 games

You are basing this on? Have you ever stepped inside the club, spoken to players or coaches?

I have.

I can tell you the vibe has been best I've seen for a long time all season.

The only people who are upset seems to be fans on the outside.

Inside the players actually seem happier than ever.

Best of luck with your next line of assuming.

  On 29/07/2012 at 08:40, Footynut said:

Inside the players actually seem happier than ever.

You've got no idea what you've just done have you? The masses will love this line!

I know no one gives a shite what I think.......... but i'll add my 2 cents

I back Neeld - he hasn't had the cattle this year - and when things started looking up injuries set in.

People will say players haven't developed and the game plan is shite - Yes that is all true.... my basic reasons are the majority of our list is not good enough (senior players) and the game plane cannot be implemented if player can't execute.

People don't realise how far behing this list is - we are on GC & GWS level of development.....Hopefully next year with another preseason and some good recruiting can pay some dividends.

Teams are not going to donate us wins - we need to stick to a plan, we need to give Neeld a chance.

  On 29/07/2012 at 05:29, jnrmac said:

We won 8 games last year. Repeat three times before blaming the players exclusively.

We beat Brisbane (15), Gold Coast (17), Adelaide (14), Essendon (8), Fremantle (11), Richmond (12), Port Adelaide (16) & Gold Coast (17). Repeat three times before over-rating our 2011 wins.

  On 29/07/2012 at 08:42, Goodvibes said:

You've got no idea what you've just done have you? The masses will love this line!

Don't take it out of context.

I was saying from all points of view in terms of the club the vibe is great and players are satisfied.

I'm countering the suggestion MN has lost the players or the perception from fans he used a sledgehammer is garbage at best.

  On 29/07/2012 at 08:19, Fat Tony said:

Disagree. Neeld's game plan is a massive outlier compared to the rest of the competition. We have been way too predictable and slow in our ball movement, which is a complete 180 on where we have come from. No other team is so averse to either using the corridor or using handball as an attacking weapon.

You think it's part of Neeld's game-plan to move the ball slowly ?

And you think they're not allowed to use the corridor ?

I disagree with both of those assertions.

  On 29/07/2012 at 09:26, Ben-Hur said:

You think it's part of Neeld's game-plan to move the ball slowly ?

And you think they're not allowed to use the corridor ?

I disagree with both of those assertions.

Agree BH Neeld definitely doesn't instruct the game to be played that way. The players are incapable of carrying out basic skills such as kicking, sticking to game plan positioning, they let the string of game plan down with really basic mistakes or hesitating.

  On 29/07/2012 at 08:54, Tony Tea said:

We beat Brisbane (15), Gold Coast (17), Adelaide (14), Essendon (8), Fremantle (11), Richmond (12), Port Adelaide (16) & Gold Coast (17). Repeat three times before over-rating our 2011 wins.

Give up Tony I have repeated this in so many posts and started a thread with these stats but some choose not to take this information in.

  On 28/07/2012 at 15:00, stuie said:

Reality is, it's more complicated than any one thing, and my pet hate at the moment here is all the "it's the ...... stupid" threads that embody the stupidness they seek to expound.

It's not JUST the coaches fault, it's not JUST the players fault, it's not JUST the recruiters and development staff's fault, it's not JUST Bailey's fault... It's a combination of all those things and more.

I know we all hoped Neeld would come in and everything would click, but it hasn't, and he's learning and growing just like the team is.

Might work, might not... I'm not gonna tell anyone to be patient etc because I'm struggling this year as much as the rest of you, all I know is it's too late to change teams now!

I totally agree that our sorry plight is multifactorial: but one cannot realistically expect that any coach, superman or a mere mortal, can transform a basket case in one season. Comparing Neeld with other first year coaches is unrealistic. Sanderson inherited a well developed and fit from Craig. FIGJAM was handed a list boasting a superb midfield, a cohesive defence and a top KPP forward. That is why these two teams are progressing while we are struggling. We need fitness enforce we can expect to get anywhere - only then should we judge Neeld. He jury remains out.

  On 29/07/2012 at 09:26, Ben-Hur said:

You think it's part of Neeld's game-plan to move the ball slowly ?

And you think they're not allowed to use the corridor ?

I disagree with both of those assertions.

It is obvious there is a directive to go along the boundary out of the backline and we then give up far too much territory in switching because we don't want to take a risk bringing the ball into the corridor. This allows the opposition to set their defensive press and thus leads to slow ball movement.

Team selection, by including too many key defenders with poor foot skills, then exacerbates the problem.

  On 29/07/2012 at 08:27, Hazyshadeofgrinter said:

I did read it. I thought it was pretty straightforward and I agree with a fair bit of it.

However you seem to be alluding to some kind of deeper understanding beyond the ken of many of us mere mortals so I was wondering if their was something I had missed?

If you don't want to explain yourself, perhaps you could explain your reasons for your faith in Neeld, i.e. what it is that you have seen him do to date which justifies your confidence in his ability as a coach? So far all you have added to this conversation has been platitudes, sniping of other posters and excuses. The excuses at least are somewhat constructive but despite what you seem to think, I suspect that they are pretty well understood by most of us.

Unless you mean "faith" in Neeld as in a belief not based on evidence/proof? That would make sense.

Mate , quite simply many are judging Neeld, or wanting his scalp based on flawed arguments. BH goes some way to separate the wheat from the chaff . My point is many of Neelds detractors wont understand the logic , either that or choose to ignore it as it doesnt serve their cause. They'll argue on despite it, circling it or simply ignoring it and hoping others wont spy their subtefuge

  On 29/07/2012 at 08:31, stuie said:

Didn't think you'd be able to get past that... Not the greatest at taking others opinions and ideas on board are you Bez?!

I am Suie...Heres the thing ..You suggest that X isnt happening and propose Y..However by you won admission you have no idea about X. But you continue your hypothesis as though it , your understanding has merit. By your own words it hasnt.

You idealise a situation in your own mould. Surely before you would have someone go in a different direction that you d actually have evidence one way or the other as to what it is in fact.

emphasis on the 'fact'

  On 29/07/2012 at 00:11, belzebub59 said:

I wont..Im sick of the whinging stupidity that comes on here at times. There are some who obviously have the brain power of a 5 yo on green cordial and then there seem to be a lot who obviously couldnt run a [censored] up in a brewery yet challenge those that actually know how to do it. I wonder sometimes is it out of jealously, pure ignorance, or some relative of the tall poppy syndrome.

Some cant stand it when their chosen idol is lamabasted becuase the bloke simply cant play to save his life ( at AFL level ) and they take personal offence. It annoys me that some seem to have no life what so ever outside of following a football team they they have had any quality of persepctive erased from their sight.

It annoys me that some cant understand that even if there were some major stuff ups over the last so many years , by many , that its NOT Neelds fault. Hes been here not even a yeasr. it will take a few seasons and definitely a 2-3 presaeasons to drum the new way into the new list ( or new form of it ) Yet some still think that because nothing is visible before them that its all bad and all going downhill.

Its not all bad . Its a process, the battering balls and dozers are about to come in. The architects and engineers have been on the job for a while now. What will be just as amusing to me will be when we are starting to climb, are becoming the NEW Demons that some clowns will think and utter, "its about bloody time" without deference to the idea its been happening all along, just that they were too dumb or blind to see it.

Go Dees

Well summed up. thats exactly whats happening. the building site currently looks like a tip. overgrown with dilapidated buildings. the engineers are still surveying the site. the earth moving starts in October

  On 29/07/2012 at 10:26, belzebub59 said:

Mate , quite simply many are judging Neeld, or wanting his scalp based on flawed arguments. BH goes some way to separate the wheat from the chaff . My point is many of Neelds detractors wont understand the logic , either that or choose to ignore it as it doesnt serve their cause. They'll argue on despite it, circling it or simply ignoring it and hoping others wont spy their subtefuge

Maybe the problem is on my end, but I simply don't understand what you are trying to say in this post.

Suffice it to say that whilst I have read and agreed with several excuses for Neeld with respect to our poor record this year, I have not encountered much in the way of clearly explained reasons for confidence in Neeld aside from the two points that I have already raised (experimenting with player positions and making players earn their spot in the seniors).

Yes, there are valid excuses and yes it is probably unfair to write Neeld off less than a year into the job but this doesn't mean that it is too early to make observations on his performance to date. In my view, Neeld has not demonstrated a capacity for creativity, originality or strategic/tactical flexibility. Based on this, I am concerned that he may not be up to it. I realise that I am probably getting a little repetitive now but I would be really keen to read some observations from other people, particularly from those with "faith" in Neeld, justifying their positions.

  On 29/07/2012 at 10:38, belzebub59 said:

I am Suie...Heres the thing ..You suggest that X isnt happening and propose Y..However by you won admission you have no idea about X. But you continue your hypothesis as though it , your understanding has merit. By your own words it hasnt.

You idealise a situation in your own mould. Surely before you would have someone go in a different direction that you d actually have evidence one way or the other as to what it is in fact.

emphasis on the 'fact'

Lol... Bit "tired and emotional" tonight mate?! Don't think you could even understand that non-sensical post...

Anyways, to clarify (seeing you must have not actually bothered to read my post), my original post was asking other Demonlanders if they had some facts/observations about something that relates to one of our main problems this year (lack of speed).

However, I now realize that you don't understand the concept of discussion and asking for the observations of others, and you're only interested in the sound of your own voice (or keyboard as the case may be).

  On 29/07/2012 at 10:47, Hazyshadeofgrinter said:

Maybe the problem is on my end, but I simply don't understand what you are trying to say in this post.

Don't worry mate, I think Bub has been having brandy with his bex tonight...

What worries me more than the list, more than the game plan, and more than the fitness (because all these can be chopped and changed and improved), is the absolute lack of fight from this team.

Even when we are in front, even when things are going OK on the field, everybody looks defeated. We start games looking like we are 100 points down. We give up momentum and scoreboard leads in a matter of minutes, we barely ever fight back, and we will finish this season with 1 legitimate win (because nobody cares about beating GWS & GC).

That is unacceptable no matter how bad your list is (and it isn't that bad).

Please tell me, when was the last time an established team managed just 1 win for the whole season?

  On 29/07/2012 at 12:45, Jaded said:

What worries me more than the list, more than the game plan, and more than the fitness (because all these can be chopped and changed and improved), is the absolute lack of fight from this team.

Even when we are in front, even when things are going OK on the field, everybody looks defeated. We start games looking like we are 100 points down. We give up momentum and scoreboard leads in a matter of minutes, we barely ever fight back, and we will finish this season with 1 legitimate win (because nobody cares about beating GWS & GC).

That is unacceptable no matter how bad your list is (and it isn't that bad).

Please tell me, when was the last time an established team managed just 1 win for the whole season?

To be honest, there has been fight on occasion from the team post the Sydney debacle but it usually comes when the game is shot or in the first couple of quarters and then fades away. It smacks of the selective outrage of 2011. The issue I think more is the boys giving 100% for a full four quarters. It seems with some near enough is good enough.

The club had commenced implosion well and truly before Mark Neeld arrived on the scene.

Total faith in him? No, not yet but I do admire his grit and consistent references to behaviors and actions. It might seem rhetorical but it's highly relative.

  On 29/07/2012 at 12:45, Jaded said:

What worries me more than the list, more than the game plan, and more than the fitness (because all these can be chopped and changed and improved), is the absolute lack of fight from this team.

Even when we are in front, even when things are going OK on the field, everybody looks defeated. We start games looking like we are 100 points down. We give up momentum and scoreboard leads in a matter of minutes, we barely ever fight back, and we will finish this season with 1 legitimate win (because nobody cares about beating GWS & GC).

That is unacceptable no matter how bad your list is (and it isn't that bad).

That's just a symptom and should be the least of your concerns.

I don't have 100% faith in him. I also think it's too soon for some supporters to be calling for his head. Who's he got to work with? Seriously, weakest midfield in the competition and not one forward capable of kicking consistent bags of goals (without Clark).

That said, it is highly worrying that he cannot get the players to focus on game day. Yes, there are obvious issues with fitness. It's harder for players to run out games. But that's no excuse for not turning up in first quarters. If I'm going to throw stones at both sides, I'd say he also has a very young list he's dealing with and immature teams struggle with consistency, and focus.

It seems difficult to believe that Bailey and our lack of FD resources had our players in such physically poor shape that it would take two pre-seasons to turn it all around. I pin hope (the very thing everyone must cling onto in times like this) on drafting this year, trading and further experience into the players we have, and trust that the tide will begin to turn somewhere during season 2013.

  On 29/07/2012 at 10:49, stuie said:

Lol... Bit "tired and emotional" tonight mate?! Don't think you could even understand that non-sensical post...

Anyways, to clarify (seeing you must have not actually bothered to read my post), my original post was asking other Demonlanders if they had some facts/observations about something that relates to one of our main problems this year (lack of speed).

However, I now realize that you don't understand the concept of discussion and asking for the observations of others, and you're only interested in the sound of your own voice (or keyboard as the case may be).

Ive got you pegged..and so have others. Its clear. When faced with argument you simply squib it and suggest there's folly afoot.

Heres where youre falling down.

Youhave an opinion.....thats fine..we all do

You make the assumption that the notion your opinion on is indeed fact... Its not

You further this building upon the assumption as to suggest why the "person mentioned in assumption " ( Neil Craig ) doesnt do what you would have him do even though theres no proof or indication that he either isnt..or is. Irrelevent to your argument as you simply idealise your view.

In simple terms ( up your alley ) you propose something based on false assumption. Merit =0

Each week now we are getting talk of how we performed against our 'markers' from Neeld in his after match report.

What if the markers are wrong. We can improve on them all we like but if they are wrong what's the point.

To be more precise your markers are built upon one's philosophy of the game.

It's obvious to blind Harry that one's philosophy has to do with the speed and efficiency of ball movement. (a la Hawks) Defense is then developed to support this. (a la Hawks)

Whoever happens to have gone to the past North games will know that they have 'pantsed us' for some time because they have a a philosophy closer to this than we do. I need not analyse all other teams but from the first game against the Lions this is what has been happening. This week he commented on how slick they moved the ball, but that wasn't his concern it was more to did with our b.... markers.

Neelds philosophy and therfore markers are off the mark and unless he changes we will be changing our coach sooner than he thinks. Someone said middle of next year. I suspect it will be a little longer, but at this stage he'll be very lucky to survive his contract.